Child discipline - relationship issues

[MS1415]

I’m sorry if this is a bit jumbled I’m trying my best to get things down but I keep rewriting as I miss things etc and my head is all over the place at the moment.

My child is strong willed and difficult, he can be an absolute nightmare when he wants to be. I do think that his behaviour is within the realms of normal toddler behaviour, the nursery have no concerns and my Mum says his behaviour is normal for a child his age. He’s 3.5. I think sometimes I get lost in the thick of it all and think there’s something wrong with him or the way I parent but I’m told by various people his behaviour is normal - I think the most frustrating thing is it doesn’t seem to change, he doesn’t seem to learn what he’s done is wrong and carries on repeating the same behaviours. Perhaps you can shed some light?
He doesn’t listen. I know he hears but he chooses to ignore or shouts NO. He literally ignores you but I know he understands the rules as when I ask him to tell me what he’s done wrong he does.
He talks over people and interrupts when you’re trying to have a conversation
He steals sweets from the side when I turn my back - climbing to get them.
He sometimes hits and kicks and bites and no amount of telling off seems to be changing this.
He throws tantrums at least once a day if not more when he’s told no.
He embarrasses me in public by screaming his lungs out when I say he can’t have a toy.
Potty training is not working very well at all, he poos in his pants every day. The health visitors tells me it’s not a medical issue and I don’t need to take him to the doctors. I know he can use the toilet and isn’t scared btw because if he’s “forced” to do a poo he does and sometimes does take himself to the toilet for a poo. (this is very frustrating!) he also often wets himself (3 times today alone) but can go all day at nursery with no accidents so he can do it. He’s been dry for 6 months at nursery.

I thought these things would get better as he got older but they don’t seem to be improving.

However he is an extremely loving boy, he can be kind and patient. He shows empathy if I’m crying for whatever reason. When he’s not in a mood he’s lovely.
I am not a perfect parent. Nor am I incredibly patient or calm with him and I’ve definitely lost my shit with him & shouted when he’s kicked me because I told him he had to wait 10 minutes for his dinner etc. However I do TRY my best to react calmly and reasonably at all times.

So I try to stay calm, I discuss rather than shout (unless the situation warrants). I send him to sit on the stairs until he’s calm and we talk - he knows this as he tells me I’m ready to listen and talk Mummy when he’s calm. He knows what is expected of him & also knows that I try my best to be reasonable with him. I did not grow up in a shouting household, nor a smacking one for that matter.
LOs behaviour is getting worse, not better if I’m honest and I think I know why....

My OH has absolutely no patience with the child at all. I feel awfully sorry for him at times and I’ll admit I’ve stepped in and stopped him from shouting at him quite a few times. He however sees nothing wrong with his behaviour.

We differ incredibly on parenting techniques it appears as LO’s behaviour gets difficult this is becoming far more obvious but I’m beginning to find myself wanting to separate and give our son a calm upbringing. However I’m not sure what to do because separating brings us to him being alone with our son and no calming influence from me and some of the things he’s most recently said are really really concerning me.

He torments our son, I genuinely mean torments him. Examples : He misbehaves at dinner / doesn’t finish and is told he can’t have an ice cream. OH thinks he should eat an ice cream in front of him to “teach him a lesson”. I don’t allow this, I think it’s cruel. OH tells me I’m controlling his discipline of his son. He’s in trouble for misbehaving so is sat on time out to calm down, OH goes outside in full view of LO and plays with a ball / jumps on trampoline in turn winds LO up to extreme hysterics.
He wakes from a nap and he needs 10 minutes to adjust - like me before I’ve had a coffee in the morning. OH torments him and LO lashes out in frustration and is then punished for hitting which doesn’t seem fair to me at all, he needs to learn to control his impulses yes but when he’s being intentionally wound up he’s going to react. It’s like OH wants to cause an issue.

I feel like we are at war with LO not because he’s generally badly behaved but because OH expects near perfect behaviour from a 3.5 year old which is just never going to happen.

OH shouts, instantly, for minor indiscretions - things I genuinely believe he needs to be taught calmly is appropriate behaviour but isn’t totally worthy of being shouted at constantly over it. He screams at him for talking over people, talking with food in his mouth, pooing in his pants (only making this worse!), talking in general he seems unable to let the child speak and keeps telling him he should be seen and not heard. Not listening, I get this is frustrating but bellowing at him doesn’t help - he’s actually made me jump repeatedly when he goes from 0-100 about an issue with no warnings to LO that his behaviour isn’t on.

He thinks a reasonable punishment for something minor is to leave him in his bedroom all evening (!!) he expects him to do this.

I have honestly told him I feel like we are running a prison camp sometimes.

Mostly I feel OH massively over reacts to minor things. He grabs him and marches him to his bedroom for nothing. He’s grabbed him by the leg before and I shouted at him to stop. He’s rough and not pleasant. He’s also got right in his face to shout. He towers over the kid whilst he’s balling shouting I’m sorry I’m sorry. LO apologises constantly now and I feel ashamed it’s got to this. I get that sometimes if they’re not listening you have to forcefully remove them but not by the ankle surely? He’s tapped him over the head, flicked his ear. So not outright aggressive but I don’t agree with anything like this.
The kid can’t do anything right. More recently he’s threatened to smack him; I will not stand for that and if he dares I genuinely will make that my hill to die on (I don’t want to start a debate over smacking as punishment it won’t happen in my house).

He always asks LO what’s wrong with him why he’s not a normal child, tells him he won’t have any friends, he’s naughty, he’s nasty, lazy little boy. Horrible little boy. He’s just damn nasty sometimes to this poor child. He doesn’t say anything positive, well okay sometimes he does but not anywhere near often enough.

During one incident recently LO would not sit for a time out and was trying to hurt me. So I improvised and strapped him into his high chair and told him to calm himself down. OH suggested we leave him there for hours as 5 minute time out isn’t working. He genuinely meant leaving our son alone for 2 hours strapped to a chair to “teach him a lesson”.
He talked about locking him in his bedroom, with a lock, for an indefinite period of time also during another meltdown LO had.

Any discussion ends in him telling me I’m controlling him and he can’t discipline as he sees fit - but some of this seems so extreme a reaction. I’m “taking away his options” to discipline LO.

I honestly am horrified sometimes by the way he behaves. I don’t know what to do because if I leave then my son goes to him on a weekend and nobody is there to protect him. I can’t prove any of this of course, it’s my word against him so how do I stop him from seeing him? Well I can’t. I feel absolutely trapped and helpless.

Am I controlling him disciplining as he sees fit when I don’t agree with it? Am I actually protecting my son? I don’t know any more and I don’t know what’s normal. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

I’ll try and answer questions if you need because I appreciate this is like all over the place. I’ll reiterate I’m not perfect at all, I don’t think it’s my way or the highway but I do think he’s 3.5 he needs to be nicer when he deals with bad behaviour. Maybe I’m too soft ?

I would be careful trying to video you. If he sees you he might become violent. At the very least he will try to stop you which could end with you being injured.

I think you need to write down these incidents with dates and times. Keep a log of everything that happens from now. I think a previous poster’s suggestion of planning to leave before Christmas is a good one. Take that time to see your GP and discuss what’s happening, contact Women’s Aid and see what help is available to you.

Your son is being abused. I think you are, too. Please work to get yourselves free of this awful environment.

A calculating&manipulative child abuser.Pls record/document what you can&report to SS..yes i 100%think initially your P would have weekend custody to spite you both&wreak as much emotional havoc as possible-so plan for this&ensure his getting custody is NOTa possibility-a duplicitous bastard(sounds exactly like my ex)& will absolutely get worse&more physical as your boy gets older..dont allow him to ruin your lives.

This was so difficult to read. He is an awful man to believe his actions are reasonable. He is most definitely a bad dad and should pack his bags.

Something that stands out to me is that if your son describes his home life to nursery they have a duty of care to report it to social services. I would want to be the one talking to social services rather than an external agency. It's hard to feel out of control when it's something as important as your son.

This video explains his behaviour so well.

I could have written so much of this. My husband and I have such differing ideas on parenting and it has had a massive impact on our son's behaviour, and our younger children but to a lesser extent at the moment.

Our eldest child had always pushed boundaries from an early age and husband has never coped well with it, telling him how bad and naughty he is, putting him in his room for hours and hours as a punishment, asking what the hell is wrong with him, why can't you be normal, name calling like stupid/idiot, the list goes on. I stuck around, convincing myself that I provided the calming influence that was needed, I was a buffer between them to stop it getting worse. I wasn't working and thought I couldn't manage financially on my own (we also have issues with financial abuse but that 's a separate long complicated story), I too worried that he would go after a 50/50 split of time with the kids if I left, making things worse for the children than they are already.

Fast forward 6 years and our son' s behaviour has got so much worse. He is so full of anger, resentment and frustration at how his relationship with his dad has become. He doesn't know how to cope with his feelings and his self esteem has dropped dramatically. Our middle child now has a lot of signs of anxiety which I believe relates to her relationship with her Dad too. I have tried talking to husband about finding a common parenting approach but he refuses to talk, believing it is everyone else's fault but his own and saying I am trying to control him and stop him discipline our children. As son's behaviour gets worse, so does husband's reaction to it and it keeps spiraling.

I am now at the stage of needing to get professional help for my son and to get a plan in place for me to leave my husband to try to protect my children (I am Close to being able to ask him to leave the family home but worry he'll refuse to leave. I realise now that I could manage financially, it will be bloody tough but doable). You would be much better LTB now while your son is younger and his behaviour is easier to tackle. As the atmosphere at home worsens, so will the behaviour, getting harder and harder to handle. It seems frightening and so hard because of the unknown with divorce but remember that you are strong, much stronger than you realise, and that you can protect your children.

Sending you support OP, I understand your predicament as am in a similar situation. I have the same worries as you, in that if I left then he would have the kids on their own, and I would not be there to de-escalate things for the children. I know things have to change. Why do these men not want to be awesome role models for their children?

OP this is horrific. You are in an abusive relationship (as you can’t seem to see how wrong this is). Your hill to do on should have been reached quite a while back. Why are you waiting for something even more awful to come? I am a teacher and if I heard about this happening in a child’s home I would be calling ss. If you are witnessing this behaviour and not acting on it (as I’m removing your child), then you too are culpable. The worst of your child’s behaviour I’m sure is a direct result of his treatment. It is now firmly believed that nurture, especially early nurture, shapes our whole personality. Please pleas remove your son from this man and fight tooth and nail to ensure that he does not spend time alone with him. I think I would be self referring to ss if this was me. You need support and most importantly, so does your son.

Sorry - hill to die on

My god! So many typos. Sorry...writing too fast.

The negativity in the original post is staggering. He sounds like a controller. The problem is he doesn't recognise his hehaviour as negative.
Even though his behaviour is negative and detrimental I think you will struggle to get social services to consider it as serious enough. Social services deal with significant harm, anything less than that and there not interested.
I've had dealings with ss due to my ex and his behaviour towards the kids. I was totally gobsmacked at how uninterested they were, even though it was proven that an incident had taken place. All I'm saying is don't bank on them helping out.
Personally I would leave him and try and make his contact as minimil as possible. As everyone's said a lot of abusive men threaten 50/50 just to gain control over their ex. My ex wanted 50/50, several years later her has th about 1/5 of the time. My kids life is infanatly better with him playing a minimil part in their lives, sad but true.