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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Is this acceptable?

65 replies

Catwoman234 · 04/08/2019 20:23

Wasn't sure where to post this but a few nights ago my partner bathed our 10 month old son. I was downstairs and could hear baby crying but he crys a lot lately due to teething and the heat so didn't think too much of it but after a couple of minutes of it getting louder I went up to check everything was OK. I went in and he was holding baby in a lying down position and saying you will lie there till you learn to let me wash your hair without fighting, he wasn't holding him roughly or tight but enough that he couldn't sit himself up and was getting more and more upset.
I got the towel and took baby out and asked what was going on, he said as soon as he lay baby down he started trying to sit up and crying, which he always does because now he can sit up in the bath he hates to lie down.
Partner thinks it's acceptable to hold baby in lying down position till he stops crying as eventually the time held in that position will get less and he will learn to just allow us to wash his hair.
Although I agree with the overall idea that doing something enough will teach a child to learn, such as naughty step/continually return to bed type thing, I don't think this is acceptable at 10 month old (in fact he's actually not quite 10month yet).
I tend to just lie him down quickly wash and rinse his hair, maybe taking a bit longer each time, then sit him up to wash and play. I know eventually he will need to learn and there will come a time to teach him that he needs to get his hair washed but I feel he is too young to actually understand consequences.
This has caused massive arguments as he thinks I am saying he isn't allowed to discipline our son and he needs to learn and not just be allowed to do whatever he wants.
This is obviously not the case at all I have no issue telling him no or stop touching or whatever but at the same time I don't actually expect him to take much in at this age i do it in the hope that one day he will take it in although when I tell him no he will stop and cry but soon enough will go back to whatever he was trying to touch in the first place but I do not think it is acceptable to hold him in position until he learns to stop.
I tried to use the example he fights at nappy change time too so by his logic rather than just quickly cleaning/changing and yes I suppose holding him in position for as long as that takes, I should be holding him in position until he stops fighting before I change his nappy as that is what he done with him in the bath but apparently thats different??
I'm due back to work in 2 weeks and I am now feeling uneasy about leaving him to do bath times, I know this isnt am I being u reasonable but am I? Is what he done out of order or am I over reacting to be mad about it?

OP posts:
RLOU30 · 04/08/2019 20:31

No?l! Wtf? I would be furious he is a fucking baby.

Bluntness100 · 04/08/2019 20:34

WTAF. Who disciplines a ten month old child? What's wrong with him? And what's wrong with you that you'd even question if this is ok?

I really hope this is fake, for that poor kids sake.

Vanillelle · 04/08/2019 20:36

You can't discipline a baby, and fear / dominance is simply no way to teach a child anything. I would be very concerned about this.

Pinkbonbon · 04/08/2019 20:41

I'm a total spare the rod spoil the child opinionated person but even I wouldn't be OK with that! It sounds like the crying was frustrating your husband and so he was exerting rage in the form of dominance. I don't know if I'd ever leave him alone with my baby again after seeing that quite frankly.

Has he been displaying other signs of irritation or frustration with the kid lately?

Catwoman234 · 04/08/2019 20:42

Thank you both for replying, unfortunately totally not fake. He seems to think this is acceptable and I'm making a big deal out of nothing. He has said, because I wouldn't let him bath him tonight, that I am taking over and won't let him parent, it all has to be my way and I am letting baby do whatever he wants.
He has actually almost managed to convince me I was over reacting but now I know I 100% wasn't I actually think I need to leave him. No idea where to even start.

OP posts:
Csleeptime · 04/08/2019 20:52

Wow this is horrendous. Show your partner this thread when it has more comments. You cannot treat a baby like this. He is teaching him to be terrified of the bath and hair washing. It will get worse each time not better. It's abusive behaviour and bang out of order. If my DH did that and thought it was ok he would be out. I wouldn't let him ever have the baby unsupervised.

Catwoman234 · 04/08/2019 20:54

@Pinkbonbon he works a lot and so isn't actually here often but yeah I do find he can be quite quick to get annoyed when he crys and will moan at me as if it's my fault. Actually what you said about showing his rage in the form of dominance is interesting(wrong word but can't think what I actually mean) as he sort of does that with me in that if we are arguing he will start talking to me as if he is "the boss" and I have to do as he says type thing. I'm probably not explaining that very well but anyway the way you have worded that sentence makes things clearer to me so thank you.

OP posts:
Zazazube · 04/08/2019 20:59

Wtaf?

This is actually abusive parenting. At 10 months old your ds has zero concept of being “disciplined”. He is at his most basic emotional development and the greatest need is to feel safe.

This is appalling parenting.

Pinkbonbon · 04/08/2019 21:00

Hate to say it but I think you might be right to leave. My instincts would be screaming at me to keep baba away from him. The thing is that if you leave you also have to make sure he doesn't get unsupervised access. But that should be easy enough to get in place considering what you've told us. So sorry for your situation but...you can't take chances with a baby around someone that would do that.

Zazazube · 04/08/2019 21:00

Also, how much hair does a 10 month old have that he needs it to be washed lying down?

Pinkbonbon · 04/08/2019 21:02

Oh and the talking to you as if he is the boss thing...its called - being a total knob.

Zazazube · 04/08/2019 21:06

I tried to use the example he fights at nappy change time too so by his logic rather than just quickly cleaning/changing and yes I suppose holding him in position for as long as that takes, I should be holding him in position until he stops fighting before I change his nappy as that is what he done with him in the bath but apparently thats different??

Well, there is the trivial matter of a high risk of drowning that makes it an entirely different situation.

Seriously OP. If you have to ask the question then you are not fit to parent.

toffeeapple123 · 04/08/2019 21:09

Wtf Shock

FabLaura · 04/08/2019 21:11

I don't think you're over reacting. We have a 9 month baby, so not far off your baby's age and my mother's instinct could not handle my husband doing this to our baby. I would tell him not to do it again because it makes me sad, it's too rough and the baby is still only a baby. I would be angry if it happened again

Catwoman234 · 04/08/2019 21:20

@Zazazube I know that, i was trying to make the point to him that even taking the drowning risk out of it it would never be acceptable to hold the baby down, or actually anyone to get them to do what you wanted and that baby wouldnt understand it as a consequence anyway. He is the one that actually thinks I would be unreasonable to hold baby down while changing his nappy but doing it in the bath is acceptable. The question marks weren't actually asking why that's different it was questioning his thoughts that my example isn't OK because it's a different situation I totally agree that what he done was a risk of drowning, though to be clear, babies head was above water with his arm under it he just wasn't allowing him to sit up and threatning to keep him there till he stopped crying.

OP posts:
FabLaura · 04/08/2019 21:21

Interestingly I've just asked my husband (for a man's opinion as my mother's instinct is big at the moment probably due to our baby's age) I'm sorry to say he said your partner's a fool as the baby doesn't understand/ can't yet understand. He said you're better off buying one of those little beach watering cans to make washing hair fun

Winterlife · 04/08/2019 21:24

Most young children have a fear of water.

We always poured water over our children’s heads when washing their hair. We put them in a water chair for some stability as it made them feel safer.

So your husband definitely is out of line.

ColdAndSad · 04/08/2019 21:24

That's not disciplining your child, it's bullying and abusing your child.

He doesn't deserve to have any contact with your baby. What a truly horrible thing to do.

ThatCurlyGirl · 04/08/2019 21:24

What the actual fuck?!

I can't decide if it's EVEN worse than doing it when your DS is a little older and could understand how much of a bully his dad was being. Nope, it's just as awful either way.

Poor you OP it must have been horrid to see DS distressed in such an already vulnerable situation. And then to be convinced you're overreacting.

Ugh he's been a dick.

ColdAndSad · 04/08/2019 21:25

Sorry, posted too soon.

Good for you for stepping in and protecting your child. You did good there. Carry on like that. Don't let this man cause you or your child another second of distress.

Catwoman234 · 04/08/2019 21:28

@FabLaura thank you(and your husband) that's almost exactly what I do, If he's really upset at lying down and I can't safely lie him down I sit him up and use a fish toy he has that's kind of like a cup to pour water over his hair, though I don't really like doing it incase he gets a fright and falls over but Im always holding him anyway and that's preferable to me than traumatising him in the bath. The point is there are options other than holding him down especially when he is far to young to understand what the hell is happening to him which he just won't listen to he is just fixated on "him needing to learn"

OP posts:
BestZebbie · 04/08/2019 21:29

Why do you need to lie the baby down at all? Use a plastic jug and pour clean water from the taps (check temp every time!) over their head - if they raise their chin you only need one jugful for the front and can rinse the rest without it ever going on their face.

BestZebbie · 04/08/2019 21:30

(Sorry, cross posted with you saying you basically already do this)

Mishappening · 04/08/2019 21:32

You do not discipline a 10 month old - gently guide them when appropriate, but not discipline.

I don't want to worry or upset you, but this is so far from acceptable that I do not think I could live with this. If you cannot reconcile with him on the subject of proper parenting this bodes really ill for the future.

I do not know how you can resolve this as he is clearly on a different wavelength and not prepared to listen to reason.

I am so sorry you are faced with this difficult situation.

Grimbles · 04/08/2019 21:37

All your baby will learn is to be afraid of his father and having a bath.