Wondering if he'll cheat again

[JaneyJimplin]

I'm posting here because I'm not sure what to do in real life.

My OH had an affair about 18m ago with a work colleague. In the aftermath of me finding out, he transferred to a different branch of his work , coincidentally she also moved abroad, so that's def over. We had counselling, he was remorseful, yadda yadda. Things have mostly been ok since.

I've been paranoid about another work colleague for a while. He works with many women, but I guess it's the little things that have alerted me. The mentionitis. He also once said to me how proud he was of her: she had started out as as a junior and worked her way up to management at a relatively young age. The comment rankled at the time but I couldn't place why, until I read a MN thread about another husband overly invested in a female work colleague's achievements, and someone insightful pointed out something along the lines of "but they're never that interested in Keith from accounts, are they?" and I realised it rankled because he is only ~interested~ proud because she's young, female, and attractive.

Fortunately for me, she got promoted again and so moved to another branch. Great, I thought - no reason for them to mingle.

Today we were driving to the airport to go on holiday and his phone rang. He has his hands free automatically connected to his car so the caller shows up on the media screen. Phone rings, we both see her name on the screen, he rejects the call (not entirely unusual when the kids are in the car, as they're noisy). A moment passes, and he says "that's the second time she's called me, I hope nothing is up" (as in work issues).
This evening I've snooped at his phone and seen the following WhatsApp exchange:

Him : all ok?
Her : yes, just calling to say have fun on your holiday and be careful!! X (It's an activity holiday)
Him : thanks. Meet up for a coffee and catch up when I'm back x

Am I wrong to think this might be heading somewhere beyond professional relations?

My gut is saying this is just a flirtation, bordering on inappropriate friendship, with a potential to grow in to another affair. I might be being paranoid because of history, but his modus operandi is definitely attractive young junior colleague who fawns over him.

If he does it again, we will be finished. I'd like to nip it in the bud before it reaches that stage.

How do I proceed? Tell him I've snooped and he better wind his dick in before things go too far? He might deny and act the victim and then just hide things better. Or do I visit her branch and tell her to back off? Downside is I'll look crazy (justified tbh) and embarrass him professionally. Or do I do nothing and stew... or something else?

What would you do?

In anticipation of all the LTB comments: our kids have SEN and wouldn't be right at this stage for them to have us separate. My goal.is to keep us as this ~somewhat~ happy family unit for as long as possible for them.

OP - if you want to be in this marriage as long as the kids need you to - you need to stop and look the other way. Really.

You seem to think that you can be your husband’s keeper and nip things, etc. You maybe be able this time. But next time you might not get lucky and messages would stop popping up, and he’ll hide better.
Whac-a-mole game is pointless....

He clearly isn’t remorseful enough or cares about loosing the family. He likes what he gets from the ego boost. And sexual thrills.
It’s a waste of your life to constantly be on guard and watching him.

Either accepts it as is. Or leave.
He won’t change

Was the signature really “X”? Here, that means “kiss”. Or was it their names?

I can understand the junior wanting work relationships with senior people. That’s why she is where she is at her age.

I routinely have coffee or lunch with male colleagues and clients. My husband doesn’t always know but if he asked I of course would tell him.

I just found out the other day that he drives a woman he works with to the subway station. I have no issue with this.

My point is, it may be innocent. I don’t see anything suspicious in the texts, depending on what the “x” is.

After his affair and the painful aftermath, I would see this as an absolute betrayal. I would blow this out of the water immediately.

If he was truly remorseful and wanted to restore trust, he would never have exchanged such messages with another woman or arranged to meet her. He also lied by pretending her call was about work.

He has not strengthened his boundaries, and still feels entitled to seek illicit ego boosts/affairs. He doesn’t care about your healing.

My advice is to come down hard and tell him to leave, even if for a while, as a consequence. For me, it would be permanent. I wouldn’t live with the anxiety and uncertainty, and I wouldn’t expose my child to such a toxic environment.

I think you need to be very clear in your mind about what you want to achieve. If it’s two parents under the same roof co-parenting then you’ll need to accept the overwhelming likelihood is he will cheat again and your plan of nipping it in the bud won’t work long term as no sooner is one sorted then another will appear- as said above you stayed once and he knows you won’t leave so no reason for him not to cheat.

Not a life I would personally accept but some do. If you are going to go down this route, do so with your eyes open.

My issue is that I want to stop him before it reaches that stage so my kids can have a happy family.

Look, I wish you the best but it's not his affairs that are the deciding factor here. Hes strayed before and it was fine, you let it go. Hes learned that he can have affairs and the family will stay together, and you've already decided that you won't leave him if he does it again. So why police him? There are zero consequences to him having an affair so it doesn't even really matter if he does or doesn't.. surely?

I won't go down the LTB route OP, you've been clear that's not on the cards and that's your prerogative. What I will say is don't entertain the 'I haven't done anything wrong' bullshit for a second when you speak to him.

I wouldn't even go from the angle that you think he's gearing up for another affair, I would just ask wtf he thinks he's doing having any kind of personal contact with a female colleague given his track record and the promises he (presumably) made last time to persuade you to forgive him. Point out that he forfeited the right to anything other than strictly professional relationships (and that means no contact about anything other than specific work issues) when he cheated and that you're hugely disappointed that he doesn't seem to have worked that out for himself.

Make this purely about the boundary he has already stepped over by having personal contact with a female colleague, not your fears/suspicions about where it could lead. Much harder for him to claim persecution/innocence if you're only accusing him of provable facts rather than intention which he can refute. But I wish you didn't feel you have to do any of it if I'm honest, he's really not worth it

Thankyou everyone. Some really spot on, intuitive advice.

I think you're right. He will do it again at some point. MrsTerryPratchet - what you said about him needing the adulation is spot on. He seems to go for women 20ish years younger than him who no doubt hang off his every word. He definitely needs for people to think he's amazing/the good guy in life. It was the shame of what everyone thought of him after last time that got to him. I remember him saying "everyone (his family) thought of me as good, I hate that now they're looking at me like I'm not"

What rvby said. He knows you'll stay whatever, so why not have affairs?

Oh my goodness, OP. He really didn't care that he had hurt you, and could have torn the family apart? Only what other people think of him?

He's going to do it again. As others have said, he knows from experience now that there are no consequences, not real consequences, to being discovered. He knows you won't leave, because of the children.

There's no point turning yourself into the relationship Police. Even if you aren't going to leave, try to get your head around how this marriage is over, because he isn't remorseful. Understand that preventing him from cheating is not your role, and will drive you insane if you try. Start to create your own life independent of him, so that if he decides to swan off with a Schmoopie, you are not wrong-footed. Read ChumpLady.com - she is definitely a 'LTB' writer, but she has articles that you will find useful, like 'genuine imitation naugahyde remorse' ones.

I would tell him that you’ve read the messages and you feel you are justified to be insecure considering what has happened in the past. Ask him to be honest to you about why he is meeting her for a coffee and whether he wants to end your marriage now. Hopefully that will give him the realisation he needs to understand that work (or any) flirtations, let alone more, will be the end of you two as a couple and it will save you going through the pain of him cheating again.

The only thing that will happen if you tell him about the messages now is that he’ll tell you it’s all innocent and you are being over sensitive.
Ask him to be honest with you and he’ll look at you with big puppy eyes and say he is.
Then he will become smarter and stop having silly mistakes like pop up phone calls on his screen.

You can’t be live like a prison guard, OP. Despite all your efforts - if he wanted to do something, he will.

You decided to stay and keep the family for the kids. The old marriage is over. This is your new reality, one where you can’t really trust him. Unfortunately, accepting it is the only way to live in it.

It is in our nature, so yes he will cheat again either live with it or move on.

I just wanted to say you will not stop him being unfaithful . If that’s what he wants to do he will do it and find away to do it. You on the other hand will make yourself ill with all the wondering if he’s going to or has he been unfaithful.
You are not responsible for making sure he isn’t unfaithful that’s his responsibility.
Get your self yourself some counselling and work on your own self esteem.
Good luck x

Op only you can decide what you want and what you will accept. It sounds like you won’t leave him for affairs until your children are older so you must be prepared that he will continue to have affairs. A man with no boundaries causes untold stress. You cannot police him/his phone and what he thinks is appropriate 24/7 as he is happy with what he is doing and messages will always slip through your net. It sounds exhausting and I would be considering what he actually brings to the party and if it is worth the cost to your sanity/happiness/self esteem.

His previous affair

Did you find out or did he confess?

My EXH cheated we tried to work it out until he did it again, you can't live wondering when it will happen again because it will, once a cheater alway's a cheater, our 2 DD's were 8 and 4 when we separated then divorced, he remarried and is still cheating but hey not my problem now.

Oh sweetheart he hasn't learn anything.

If he really understood what the last affair had done, felt the consequences and really wanted to make your marriage work he would not be taking any chances.

He either didn't explore the why and how if the last affair to enable him to regulate his behaviour or he doesn't care enough.

He should not be putting himself in a position that oversteps boundaries.

Gently I say that based o the information in you OP he will cheat again.

Martha, I found out. He admitted he didnt know how long it would have gone on for if I hadn't found out.

Oh sweetheart he hasn't learn anything.

Yes he has. He has learnt that the risk is definitely worth the reward. All it cost him the ‘first’ time is some arguments and some counselling sessions.

OP, my OH is good friends with a woman who works for him. I had massive concerns for a long time - they would on work nights out and be the last ones left at the end of the night, her tagging him in FB posts at 3am. He would talk about her a lot etc.

Then one day I just stopped worrying. I don't know why. I think I maybe just thought well, if it's going to happen, it will, but there's no point dreading it just in case because I'll drive myself mad.

She would likely text to say to have a good holiday (I do think calling is a bit weird though to say something like that).

She's on mat leave and went into work to give him a present for our new baby (her baby is about 4 months older) which was really lovely.

I do think they are just good friends. He's always got on well with men and women.

He's never cheated on me (as far as I know) so my position is different to yours, but you have two choices:

• leave him knowing that you're never going to be able to trust him. It's ok to have taken him back but now change your mind.
• talk to him openly and honestly about your feelings. If he's honest with you about their friendship, it'll be much easier to accept (or not accept if you so wish). You forgave him the last time for a reason. If you want to stay together, you need to accept that what he says is true, and work together on building up that trust again.

Ok lets look at it from another perspective. He isn't actually pursuing this lady, but he knows what he put you through the first time, why would he risk putting himself in that situation again?

The living with the worry of that would kill me. Even the way you said , she moved to another branch so more or less out of his reach, but to men like him that doesn't matter, he will find someone else to pursue.

I think you need to sit him down, tell him your thoughts, ask him is there something he feels is missing in his marriage? Is it the excitement? is he attracted to you still? all these questions if answered truthfully might help you to save your marriage, but unfortunately and I know from personal experience, some men just wont tell the truth and you will be at a dead end.

I really fell for you hun. x

I think it depends on what you’re going to do with the information.
Just accept he will have affairs because it’ll keep your family together?
Or more counselling?
Or you will leave him?
You can’t live like this that way madness lies. Like a pp said it’s like playing whack a mole.
I wish you luck.

There is no point in more counselling.

Will he do it again? Yes..Yes he will.
If an opportunity presents itself will he worry about the impact on his life? What he put you through last time? That he may lose everything? No.

Your choice is to cut him loose or suck it up.

Everything you've written makes it sound like his only regret about the first affair is getting caught and losing the good opinion of his family and colleagues. No regret at hurting you. No regret at losing your trust. No regret at potentially ending your marriage.

As you have SEN DC, is your home life more about caring for them and their needs, all responsibility and "adulting", not much fun for the two of you? You (rightly) see that as what you have to do, he sees it as boring, dragging him down and he thinks he's entitled to look elsewhere for the fun things in life.

I think he will definitely have another affair and probably with this woman (if she will have him) if it hasn't already. Putting kisses on messages to/from colleagues has already overstepped the mark. If you bring it up then I agree with pp that he will most likely just hide it better in future.

Up to you what you do but I would find it impossible to sacrifice my own life to facilitate DH's affair(s).

My OH and I only mingle with work pals in groups like occasions/ parties.. he wouldn't meet up with a female colleague for a coffee lol that's just odd

Something is going on OP