I don't feel comfortable. How to decline politely without hopefully offending.

[Mumtotwo82]

Hi all,
first time poster here. Ok so I have 2 sons. My SIL is a nice person but a bit over bearing at times her DH more so and her DH have no kids of their own. They ask often to have alone time with my boys they do sometimes ask us all as a family but rarely. I have let the oldest go a couple of times but never both or just my youngest and my youngest who has just potty trained they have started to ask to have the youngest for a few hours when the oldest is in school without us. I know some people are totally fine about letting their kids go. I do let my mil and fil have them alone but they have never been pushy and I completely feel comfortable as they have had kids. I do feel a bit mean but I have a uncomfortable feeling. SIL when my first was newborn joked he was hers not mine and I know it was hormones but it wasn't a great start and there have been a few issues of them taking them places without telling us or meeting up with people (their friends we don't know without telling us) I also just feel not great about them taking care of my youngest personal care too I don't know why. They have never done it or had him anytime on their own. My SIL was too I'll for about a year to have them so there has been a big time gap of her not asking but now she is getting better it's started again. Her DH is a bit full on as well always expecting them to give him hugs and kisses even when the don't want to. They are extrovert I'm introvert so maybe I know we just clash a bit. But I do want my boys to see them and have a nice relationship as I know they are lucky boys to be loved but I always want to feel comfortable.

You are their parent, you decide who your children spend time with.

Be firm, "DS2 won't be visiting on his own until he's older", and if you don't want DS1 to go for some reason just say he is busy/ill/having a day at home etc.

I would not be allowing this. No way. Your children are not on loan to other people for their needs. This is not a good example to your children when they ought to be learning about boundaries, and possession of their own body and well being etc.

Absolutely agree. The OP isn't being precious: there is no issue here with unsupervised contact with the PsIL. And as far as SiL is concerned, OP is still kind enough not to want to cause offence in the face of this inexplicable pushiness.

In these circumstances, I'm afraid I'd be having no such qualms. But I'd certainly be wondering what gives.

I agree that gut feelings as a parent are mostly right, alerting us to something that is off. That doesn't mean they are abusers but I had two situations when my children were younger where I was very uncomfortable and said no (looking fairly unreasonable at the time)..

One of them I was right and the guy turned out to be an abuser, the other remains to be seen but looking back cutting off contact was the right decision.

In my opinion if the two of them want a good relationship with the children, it gets built by building trust with thr parents and if they fail to do that then it won't happen.

i find that a bit weird, this demanding of alone time. trust your gut.

Yanbu! At all. Please trust your gut.
You gave them an opportunity and they blew it anyway.
If they want to see them it must be with you.
It just sounds odd. You don't need to justify or explain either.

I really must stress it's not that I think they are dodgy in anyway like child abusers no (I put my experience to why I maybe a bit over protective) I just feel they think they are entitled a bit and it does put me off. I also feel that her dh gets quite jealous of my husband's brother when the kids give him attention my husband has even noticed this (my mil has even said he is quite odd socially she even said and so have others do you think he may be on the spectrum? but this is just gossip obvs. I often have to spell things out to him when the kids don't like something. Like giving him cuddles when they don't want one and no peace when they are trying to eat. He is a lovely person though and so is she but they are a bit clueless with the kids at times and they said when they had my oldest they were just having him for lunch and play at theirs put the ended up at some petting zoo with his family who we don't know.

Her DH is a bit full on as well always expecting them to give him hugs and kisses even when the don't want to
This isn’t right, children have the right not to be forced to show affection, this is how they learn boundaries and to keep themselves safe.

I totally agree. I have always said you don't have to if you don't want to but don't be rude just wave bye or give a high five. I always say they will give you a high five which he takes put then will often say " you must give auntie a cuddle though" I always add if they want to yes.

I really must stress it's not that I think they are dodgy in anyway like child abusers

Yes, there are some posters on this thread who are coming to this default conclusion, or inferring such from the posts of other PPs who have actually said no such thing. In the end, though, it makes no real difference. You don't have to fear something as extreme as this as the basis for not allowing unsupervised contact;. all that's needed is that the situation or person makes you feel uncomfortable. It's enough.

Unsupervised contact with another person's child is never a 'right', and pushing to this extent to receive that privilege is concerning in any circumstances. It doesn't mean that person is a would-be abuser. But the force of their sense of entitlement would bother me enough to say an emphatic 'no' to their request.

'No, sorry, that doesn't work for us' is more than polite, OP. Whatever you do, don't go into detailed explanation. That's because if they're as pushy as you say they are, they'll just derail that explanation point-by-point, and will keep finding reasons as to why it's not valid until they wear you down.

My sympathies are with you! Relatives like this can be exhausting to deal with.

OP - simply trust your gut. Say no if you’re not happy. I would in this situation.

To me it sounds as though they are having issues trying to conceive. The comment about always having your kids sounds like she is trying to convince herself that nephews would be enough were she never to have her own.

I would go down the come and spend time with all of us route, go for family days out. Explain its a potty training issue at the moment if you need to give an excuse. Then gauge how you feel then once you see how they act around them.

Even her husband may be feeling just very broody.

I think this might be it but I never want to pry because we are not that close but I'm always friendly with them. I think because of the illness she has had they are being sensible as to see if they can cope. Also he is so fussy about how things should be. He is much more comfortable in others houses or out with our kids (probably why they took my oldest out) When it's in his house I witnessed him being quite panicked about the kids and his things or if they are clean and don't make any mess. Don't do this or that, follows them round to pick up bits. So I do think he loves kids but in his space I get the impression he finds it out of his comfort zone but at our house or anyone else's he is more relaxed. Could be why he may be reluctant to have his own they might put crumbs on his beautiful carpet and sticky hands on his lovely walls 😂

You should listen to your gut reaction and you are obviously not happy. If you risk upsetting them that will be one thing but it is worth the risk.
Rather put your children in a position where you have no control. its best just to say no.
They will get over it and if they had their own children they would understand how you feel. Don't let them undermine you, it's not worth the worry

The main issue is that they take them to see adults you don't know.
These adults can be criminals.
The DH wanting hugs and kisses is not sitting right with me.
Why don't they just adopt?
Never risk your kids, even if you are being ridiculous and proved to be wrong, doesn't matter, keep your young kids by your side until they are at least 10 and can verbally and clearly tell you if something has gone on which is not right.

I'm going to take on alot of this advice without hopefully causing them offence

They have taken your DS out to places you were not aware of & to see other people without telling you.

I wouldnt worry a jot about offending them.

It probably is the case that they want to borrow your DC because their infertility issues make them want to spend time with DC (rather than them being predators) but your DC are not therapy for unhappy adults, and if you/your DC are not comfortable, you have every right to set boundaries and resist pushing and whining and drama from SIL.

You should always trust your instincts if you don’t feel comfortable

BUT I have a similar situation with my SIL.
She is also Child free and is about 20 years older than me and dh ( so will stay child free!)

We have 6 children ranging from 14 down to 3. She often takes the kids places , takes them on day trips, to her house, takes her to activities and on longer holidays. In fact my two eldest 12 and 14 are going to Ireland with her next week.

we have found this a god send! She is fantastic with the kids and they have been able to do things and go places we could never either afford or have time to take them.

I do see her and her husband as part of the “bringing up the kids” team . And I trust them to care for the children as if they were their own .

I should also add that as babies/toddlers she doesn’t take them unless we ask her for help (she looked after my 5 week old when I was rushed to hospital for example!) .

My 3 year old has only spent a few hours at a time with her - it’s not until they get to about 5 or 6 plus that they start going overnight or away

Can't you get the DH name checked out on the sex register?
It is most likely not the case but at least you'll have peace of mind.
Unfortunately and shockingly , child abusers are everywhere, my friend works somewhere which basically looks for unsavoury web activity, the amount of perverts out there is shocking according to her, men and women.

But what is it that you are afraid of?
Do you think that your SIL will hurt them?
Or that your children will be frightened?
Or that your SIL will somehow abuse them whilst giving them 'personal care'?
I do believe that a child who is the focus of love from a wider family is a lucky child. Why would you deny them that?
Allow your child to be loved, unless you have valid reasons not to. Your vague feelings of anxiety seem to be about what you need more than what your child needs.
That sounds harsh, but truly, I don't mean it to be. Its selfish, but totally understandable, to want to keep young children with you at all times.
But young children grow up, and when you are desperately looking around for someone in your family to support you, they will not be there, unless they have formed a bond.
And your child will not feel comfortable with meeting new people and changing their routines, which everyone has to do eventually, unless they have experience of it. What better way to do that than in the relative safety of leaving them with a family member.

I'm a bit baffled by some of the responses on here. I'm childless and regularly 'borrow' my nephews at the weekend, take them to the park for a walk etc. because I love spending time with them (and I think they do with me too). I've never even considered that my SIL might think I'm being weird or be uncomfortable with it (she's always said yes)!

I think the reason they probably want 'alone time' (which has been taken way out of context on this thread) is because most children seem to naturally gravitate to their parents (to be expected) and so actually it's quite difficult to get involved at the park if a child just wants their parents to play.

I recall my SIL saying if they don't have kids they will always have our two sons
I think because of the illness she has had they are being sensible as to see if they can cope
This is the issue - they are NOT her kids!
Her and her DH are USING your kids as an experiment to see if they are suitable/have the skills to be parents and to play out their fantasy of being parents.
This is wrong on EVERY level.

they have just took my oldest off places in the he past and only knew about it when they return
They can't be trusted.
If you do decide to let them take the kids out, the first time they break your trust again you put a complete stop to it.

The other most important thing - your kids feelings.
These adults want a 'close almost parental style relationship' with the kids - what happens when SIL either gets pregnant/has her own dc by whatever means?
Your kids will be 'dropped' and they WILL feel hurt/betrayed if they've built up that bond with IL's.

There is also a problem with the attitudes of your DH and his parents.
None of them can see why this is wrong.
They are all enabling SIL and using her illness/lack of DC to emotionally blackmail you into agreeing to this.
Don't let them.
Anyone who enables bullshit doesn't have the best interests of your kids at heart.
SIL can go get herself a dog if she wants to test out how her illness will affect her as a caregiver of a dependent.

Nobody is respecting you as the mother - so just put your foot down and take control of the boundaries.

My DSis is childless (through choice) and I had absolutely no qualms about her taking the DC overnight when they were younger. This was because she had good boundaries, and didn't force it. Your SIL is far too intrusive - it doesn't matter why, she just is.
As for the H trying to foist affection on the DC - no! You want DC with strong boundaries, so they don't think they have to let people (no matter who) touch them without their consent. I'm affectionate, but one of my DC is not - I'm led by her. If I go to give her a kiss or cuddle, and she backs away, then fine. If she approaches me for a squidge, then great. I don't force it. A pp says, good life lesson for your DC.

But what is it that you are afraid of?

Doesn't matter. Makes no difference whatsoever. The OP is uncomfortable with unsupervised contact. No justification necessary.

Allow your child to be loved, unless you have valid reasons not to.

No one is stopping the aunt and uncle loving the child. They're not being denied a relationship with the child; merely unsupervised contact. My DB is never left alone with my DC - much as it grieves me to take this position - because he has an alcohol problem. As a parent, I/we judge that this makes him an unsuitable person to have sole care of a young child. Protecting the DC is our job; we'd be failing as parents otherwise and DB fully understands. Still doesn't mean DC and DB don't have a fantastic, fulfilling, mutually-beneficial relationship. I don't understand your point.

Your vague feelings of anxiety seem to be about what you need more than what your child needs.

I can see no basis whatsoever for this comment from what OP has posted. If this SiL + DP are unable to love the child unconditionally, no matter what the terms of contact, I'd suggest the OP's instincts are spot on and the in-laws are the ones with a problem.

What better way to do that than in the relative safety of leaving them with a family member.

She does so (with the PiL), as she's previously made clear. Just not this particular family member.

You haven't posted in the wrong place at all. This is about relationships and too important to be in AIBU. You feel uncertain so they don't go. There are bad people around and you will have people telling you children are more at risk from family when someone is worried about a play meet up or music lesson etc.

Your primary job is to keep your child loved and safe. They are tiny so they need you to do the thinking, gut feeling listening and decisions for them.