Advice please. Difficult FIL, unsupportive DP

[Confusedathome]

I've tried writing this three times. I am very confused. Have asked RL people but I think I need some anonymous, independent advice.

DP and I have been together for 6 years. Living together now and thinking about marriage/babies. Until about four months ago, I was pretty happy but am now very worried. Nothing has changed or triggered this - I am just more worried about things I was already anxious about.

FIL is very patriarchal. He expects DP and I to follow his advice - when we don't he complains (at me almost exclusively). In fact he complains constantly; he is very critical and quite unkind. DP and FIL always brush off my concerns about this criticism as a lack of education or emotional intelligence on FIL's part. His behaviour is excused and he is never expected to apologise or attempt to be nicer to anyone.

The criticism is upsetting, even when its not about me as I hear it all the time. I am more and more concerned that it will continue through a pregnancy and beyond - I am concerned about the impact on my mental health. I struggle with depression (triggered funnily enough by a constantly critical family as a child) and am aware that the high level of criticism I face from FIL is unhelpful. DP feels that I cannot assume FIL will be critical based on past experience - I feel that I can. He criticises SIL's and a family friend's parenting constantly - he feels qualified to comment on everything. He expected SIL to potty train when he told her to, to start teaching letters when he told her to, to feed nephew what he told her to - when she didn't he complained at me. He will defintely expect the same from me and I am afraid that he will simply do what he wants because he sees himself as the authority in our household. (Asian family, no MIL to temper his behaviour). He has form - he ignores godson's mother's wishes and feeds godson whatever FIL wants him to eat.

He also has a history of endangering children. I'd like to say via benign neglect but can't. He does childcare for his 'godson'. For a long time he would not use a carseat for godson (then aged 3) or even make him wear a seatbelt. Despite being told (by me, DP wouldn't at first say anything) that this was illegal and his responsibility, he said carseats aren't used in home country so he doesn't have to and it is godson's mother's responsibility to provide one. I insisted that he had to use one - DP bought one but it was only sporadically used at first until I further insisted. For SIL's children and now for godson too he does use the carseats but has told me that he thinks 3 year old is too big and doesn't need one.

There have been other incidents. Godson's sister (then aged 2) left unsupervised in bath because godson (then aged 4 and favoured by FIL) wanted to put his pjs on. Both children (then aged 3 and 5) left unsupervised for two hours in kitchen while FIL napped - they were left food but wanted Ribena that was stored on top of fridge. They pushed a chair to climb up fridge to get Ribena (according to FIL - I wasn't there). Ribena was split and FIL blamed the 3 year old - in fact he called her a manipulative bitch.

He can also be horrorifcally critical of children he does not favour. Godson's sister is described as having 'bad blood', as a bitch for very normal 3 year old behaviour. Now he has started saying that his granddaughter two is more intelligent than granddaughter one - GD2 is a little advanced developmentally than GD1 at same age but not on a genius level.

I have tried to talk to DP about all of this. Before we even start trying, I want us to agree on some values around parenting and on some clear boundaries for his dad. He won't engage at all. Either he becomes very defensive, saying that I am unreasonable, that his dad won't endanger his kids, that I can't dictate what my child eats. Other times he says if FIL does something I don't like as long as it is reasonable then DP will speak to him - but everything I say is deemed unreasonable.

I don't feel I can trust DP or FIL with a future child. I know that this is anxiety about an unknown future but I feel its irresponsible to have a baby knowing that FIL might endanger them or be incredibly cruel to them or to me. I am worried that if baby has an health problems or learning difficulties, FIL will be very quick with blame and criticism that will affect my mental health. I've seen him do this with godson's family - even if he doesn't say it to them, he's telling everyone else.

I'm sorry it's long. How do I get DP onside with me? I'd like advice on getting him to be supportive on dealing with FIL and being a team before babies.
Or do I leave now? I am very torn. 6 years is a long time to invest and in many ways we've been very happy but FIL is a constant problem that we cannot resolve as DP will never confront FIL even when DP acknowledges FIL to be unreasonable or wrong

Thank you in advance.

Oh OP I wanted to cry reading your post.

Your FIL is a nasty, horrid man who bullies and manipulates everyone around him from the sounds of it. Who the hell thinks it's reasonable to brand a 3 yo child a bitch? (I hate that word in general, but using it about a child is appalling).

Sadly I fear you're right, and he will do the same if you and your DP have a child. Your DP has so far shown no respect to your feelings or upset over his dad, and I don't think that's going to change. He needs to realise that you're his partner, and that his father is bullying you. Why he's happy to condone that is beyond me.

But if he won't listen to reason, and won't support you at all now, I can't see how you're going to be able to have a family without him siding with his dreadful father.

So in your shoes I'm afraid I'd be considering (seriously considering) leaving before I did get pregnant. Especially given that you have valid concerns about your MH being affected by FIL. They are valid concerns, whatever anyone in his family says. His behaviour is not acceptable, certainly not normal and strikes me as abusive if I'm honest. I'd hate for you to be caught in that awful cycle with children linking you to him forever.

Do what's right for you. If your DP truly loves, respects and values you, he'll support you. If not, I don't think you have a choice but to leave.

I'm sorry you're in this situation.

I would end this relationship with your partner now before you marry into such a dysfunctional family let alone bring a child into this. Your partner is very much in a fear, obligation and guilt state re his abusive dad and his inertia too re his father too means that he will continue to watch you being verbally abused by his father. He will continue to throw you under the bus so as having to avoid confronting his dad, something he really cannot do at all because he has been conditioned into thinking his dad's behaviours are "normal". Walking away from him may give your partner the shock he needs but on the other hand it may not. You cannot help your partner but you can and should certainly help your own self here.

Re your comment about 6 years being a long time to invest, well this thinking is very much the "sunken costs fallacy" in relationships and that basically causes people to keep on making poor relationship decisions. What you're forgetting here in the above is that the damage here has already been done.

Staying in a bad romantic relationship simply because you've spent so much time with this person and you can't really see yourself dating someone new is a dangerous mindset. The more time you spend in a relationship with a sunk cost fallacy mindset, the more difficult it will become to leave.

People get bogged down by focusing on their sunk costs.
There are two ways to understand this process, both involving avoidance. One is an avoidance of disappointment or loss when something doesn’t work out. When a relationship doesn’t succeed, especially after a long period, especially after many shared experiences and especially after developing a hope that the relationship would be a good one, it is a loss. It is a loss of what might have been and an acknowledgement that a part of one’s life has been devoted to this endeavour.

Another angle to evaluate is that focus on “sunk cost” creates a distraction from one’s inner truth. The sentence often goes like, “I’ve already invested to much, so I can’t notice my thoughts and feelings that are telling me to end or change this relationship.”
This is a type of insidious defense against noticing yourself. You enter into a neglectful relationship with yourself which divorces you from your inner thoughts and the quiet feelings that might guide you in your life. In other words, thinking about what already has been may prevent you from deciding what you want your life to be.
The key is to clear away the distractions to rational and emotional clarity. Getting stuck in your “sunk cost” prevents you from this clarity, whether in your relationships or your investments!

You should get out of that relationship whilst you still can. It sounds horrendous!! NOTHING will change, whether you're married to your partner or have a child with him or not. If anything, things will become much worse if you do stay in that toxic environment and you have a child to add into the mix.

Your FIL is an abusive arsehole and sounds like a narcissistic, manipulative bully, and your partner should be on your side, not making excuses for his dad.

Thank you. I think this is what I need to hear. RL friends are saying similar things.

DP is not afraid of FIL but certainly feels obligated and guilty. MIL died when DP was a teen; he feels FIL sacrificed for them, doing everything he could (physical support). DP and I have talked about it a lot recently (as well as argued). He feels that we'll be a family and what we say goes, but when pushed admits that FIL would be here all the time and would likely be very pushy. DP isn't a fool - he agrees that carseats are a must but he won't discuss or commit on other concerns. Just says that if my concern is reasonable he will back it but then dismisses things as irrational.

DP did back me yesterday when I called FIL out for comparing his current grandchildren in a highly critical and nasty way. But I suspect he'll have been pandering -so will have told him to be nicer, but qualified with confused thinks it's not nice or confused is anxious. He won't ever elaborate on what is said and I can't ever be sure as they use the home language that I don't speak well

I also thought that the 6 years is 'sunken cost fallacy'. I am very sorry, but I would leave. You are not going to get your partner onside. You have tried and tried and it hasn't happened.

Imagine being pregnant or a new mum and how vulnerable you are at that stage. You will need DH on your side and if he isn't it will be a horrible time and you will resent him for spoiling it.

I cannot see this situation changing unless you change it... by leaving.

Your DP will never put you or your (future) child first. He will always pander to his father and allow him to endanger your child both physically and emotionally. You need to be very very clear on that
SO think about whether you want to have a child or even continue the relationship. I would hate to read your post on here in a couple of years time saying how awful your FIL is and how your DP won’t stand up to him when he treats you badly and your baby badly, because he absolutely will and your DP won’t stop him and by then you will be trapped

The only path to happiness is without your DP.

This DP will, even if he seems to come around, revert to FOG as soon as a baby is in the mix. Been there, done that, spoiler alert, the divorce from these families (and you will be divorcing the entire family) is appallingly horrific.

Don't make the mistake I and so many other women on here have made and "give DP a chance" because "he's a good man". He's broken, in a way that you can't fix and in a way that will absolutely absolutely ruin your life and the lives of your children ... if you stay.

Having a newborn is very difficult at the best of times. I think you would be best surrounded by people who love you and support you not undermine you and critisise you. I'm guessing that if it's been like that for 6 years it's unlikely to change.
If you listen to your gut, what does it say?
Would you be able to enjoy your pregnancy? Have support after labour (from your family and friends)? Would you be happy to raise a child in that particular family set up?

My gut says leave. I just don't want to hurt DP who does care about me. He isn't supportive - not just with his dad - but he does care and he does try.

I know I won't be support during or after pregnancy. FIL will want to help with baby - it's sweet as he genuinely does care. But that help will be his way and no other. He won't hold back on criticism either. I raised with DP a hypotehtical post-labour where DP was back at work and FIL was round daily 'to help' but mainly criticising me and my choices. I asked what would happen if I felt FIL was being too critical, would he tell FIL to back off, to not come round when baby and I would be alone. The answer was probably not, only if I was reasonable. I said that upset, hormonal new mum surely gets to say that FIL is too much to deal with alone and he told me that he'd expect me to rationally attempt to deal with FIL first then he'd intervene if FIl ignored me and my concern was reasonable. Apparently my concerns he'll criticise nappy choice, feeding, sleeping arrangments etc are not reasonable - well he wouldn't discuss the unknwon.

Thank you everyone. You've helped me clarify what I was already thinking and feeling.
Now I just need to actually leave.

@PicsInRed I'm sorry about your divorce. Yes I do know. A bad argument between DP, me and FIL (DP and I on same side for once) resulted in hours of nasty messages from SIL (who also has a troubled relationship with FIL and should really know better). I can't begin to imagine the drama and hurt caused by a divorce. Much admiration and strength to you

I don’t get why you can’t just listen to his advice politely then ignore it.

Oh this is such a horrible position but if he won’t back or attempt to protect you now then he won’t. As a new mother it’s an extremely vulnerable time.

My partner took a while to intervene on my behalf with PIL over issues, but regularly protests on my behalf and stepped right up after DC.

Good luck @Confusedathome it sounds like you have made the right decision for you. I've had difficult in-laws and it had such a negative impact on my marriage I only agreed to marry again when I was sure his parents were kind and supportive.

I don't feel I can trust DP or FIL with a future child

I think this says it all.

You cannot trust your Dp and without trust then there isn’t a hope of a Ltr

Your Dp hasn’t got your back and cannot see the problem.

Run whilst you still can.

Please don’t get pregnant with this man because then your Dp and fil will have access to the child without you.

Find someone else.

Yes 6 years is a long time but better to have spent 6 years than 7 or 10 or 20 or cost the life of your child.

I have an overly critical Fil. Everything it seems is wrong.

Recent examples:

He came into our garden and took a tree down. Apparently dh asked him to. I called him on it. Dh said we were thinking about it (we were) and Fil took it upon himself to do it.

He is annoyed we’re not “letting” him and his gf go to Mexico next year for a family friends wedding. They were invited. But won’t go because they think we’ll expect them to do childcare for ds and dc2 (who will be 2.5 and 9m) so we can enjoy a grown ups only holiday. We won’t expect this. And know they won’t offer it. And most of the family have young kids anyway so it’s not going to be a typical grown ups holiday.

They are getting two Jack Russells. I’m not keen on them. I was bitten badly by one when I was a kid and just don’t trust them. Gf has said they won’t be training them. They’ve said ds needs to be supervised with them (obviously) and no matter what happens if he gets bitten he’ll be the one at fault....and won’t be allowed to see the dogs again.

They’re adamant ds is going to private school. He’s not. Especially not for primary. Secondary maybe. But the local school is great. So why pay for it? Fil has gone on and on about this. I apparently have a chip on my shoulder because I wasn’t allowed to go private. Dh was. Therefore I’m controlling. I’ve said to Fil if he’s willing to fund it then great. But our children. Our choice.

I’m going back to work after maternity leave on a reduced hours basis. I’m apparently cruel and selfish for not being a sahm. But if I was I’d be scrounging from dh in fils eyes. Have told him that his opinion doesn’t matter. Only Dhs. Dh thinks me going back to work is the best option for us all. Financially, socially for the kids (ds is thriving at nursery), mentally for me.

Essentially I can do no right. I largely just ignore it or call him on it now Dh is supportive of my ignoring and calling him on it. It’s frustratjng though.

Have a look at the out of the fog website. Ask your DP to read it. Get toxic parents book for him depending on his reaction to the site. If he can't be arsed with it you have your answer I'm afraid.

I am sorry you are in this situation. I hope you can find happiness.
I think it would be totally different if you DP supported you and agreed with you.
Good luck. X

You can't have children with this man playing such a big role in your life. Contact needs to be at least, significantly reduced.

Your partner has made it clear that he will continue to excuse his fathers behaviour and that is not going to change. I would be seriously considering whether or not having a child with your partner is viable considering you know he tolerates a toxic influence in your life and will obviously continue to do so in the childs life. Its ultimatum time, either partner cuts contact with father down to bare minimum or, you walk away.

I could not have children with your partner, you would not be supported and your FIL will constantly be a battle which means you'll also be battling your partner.

"He does try."

Having kids with someone needs more than "trying".

That's besides the obviously toxic family. Get out before it's too late.

I have an abusive FIL and a DH who makes excuses for him. If I could go back in time I would have not married DH because of it.

Run a mile.

I don’t get why you can’t just listen to his advice politely then ignore it
She's being abused by her FIL and gaslighted by her DP - there is absolutely no way she should politely put up with it - and you can't just ignore the effects of abuse.

My gut says leave. I just don't want to hurt DP who does care about me. He isn't supportive - not just with his dad - but he does care and he does try
Coming from an asian background myself and given your DP's words and lack of actions, i'm very confident that he will not change.
FIL will always be revered and regarded as some sort of demi-god.

People can change but your DP isn't interested because he doesn't see anything wrong in his own behaviour or attitude.