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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Advice please. Difficult FIL, unsupportive DP

74 replies

Confusedathome · 02/07/2019 11:33

I've tried writing this three times. I am very confused. Have asked RL people but I think I need some anonymous, independent advice.

DP and I have been together for 6 years. Living together now and thinking about marriage/babies. Until about four months ago, I was pretty happy but am now very worried. Nothing has changed or triggered this - I am just more worried about things I was already anxious about.

FIL is very patriarchal. He expects DP and I to follow his advice - when we don't he complains (at me almost exclusively). In fact he complains constantly; he is very critical and quite unkind. DP and FIL always brush off my concerns about this criticism as a lack of education or emotional intelligence on FIL's part. His behaviour is excused and he is never expected to apologise or attempt to be nicer to anyone.

The criticism is upsetting, even when its not about me as I hear it all the time. I am more and more concerned that it will continue through a pregnancy and beyond - I am concerned about the impact on my mental health. I struggle with depression (triggered funnily enough by a constantly critical family as a child) and am aware that the high level of criticism I face from FIL is unhelpful. DP feels that I cannot assume FIL will be critical based on past experience - I feel that I can. He criticises SIL's and a family friend's parenting constantly - he feels qualified to comment on everything. He expected SIL to potty train when he told her to, to start teaching letters when he told her to, to feed nephew what he told her to - when she didn't he complained at me. He will defintely expect the same from me and I am afraid that he will simply do what he wants because he sees himself as the authority in our household. (Asian family, no MIL to temper his behaviour). He has form - he ignores godson's mother's wishes and feeds godson whatever FIL wants him to eat.

He also has a history of endangering children. I'd like to say via benign neglect but can't. He does childcare for his 'godson'. For a long time he would not use a carseat for godson (then aged 3) or even make him wear a seatbelt. Despite being told (by me, DP wouldn't at first say anything) that this was illegal and his responsibility, he said carseats aren't used in home country so he doesn't have to and it is godson's mother's responsibility to provide one. I insisted that he had to use one - DP bought one but it was only sporadically used at first until I further insisted. For SIL's children and now for godson too he does use the carseats but has told me that he thinks 3 year old is too big and doesn't need one.

There have been other incidents. Godson's sister (then aged 2) left unsupervised in bath because godson (then aged 4 and favoured by FIL) wanted to put his pjs on. Both children (then aged 3 and 5) left unsupervised for two hours in kitchen while FIL napped - they were left food but wanted Ribena that was stored on top of fridge. They pushed a chair to climb up fridge to get Ribena (according to FIL - I wasn't there). Ribena was split and FIL blamed the 3 year old - in fact he called her a manipulative bitch.

He can also be horrorifcally critical of children he does not favour. Godson's sister is described as having 'bad blood', as a bitch for very normal 3 year old behaviour. Now he has started saying that his granddaughter two is more intelligent than granddaughter one - GD2 is a little advanced developmentally than GD1 at same age but not on a genius level.

I have tried to talk to DP about all of this. Before we even start trying, I want us to agree on some values around parenting and on some clear boundaries for his dad. He won't engage at all. Either he becomes very defensive, saying that I am unreasonable, that his dad won't endanger his kids, that I can't dictate what my child eats. Other times he says if FIL does something I don't like as long as it is reasonable then DP will speak to him - but everything I say is deemed unreasonable.

I don't feel I can trust DP or FIL with a future child. I know that this is anxiety about an unknown future but I feel its irresponsible to have a baby knowing that FIL might endanger them or be incredibly cruel to them or to me. I am worried that if baby has an health problems or learning difficulties, FIL will be very quick with blame and criticism that will affect my mental health. I've seen him do this with godson's family - even if he doesn't say it to them, he's telling everyone else.

I'm sorry it's long. How do I get DP onside with me? I'd like advice on getting him to be supportive on dealing with FIL and being a team before babies.
Or do I leave now? I am very torn. 6 years is a long time to invest and in many ways we've been very happy but FIL is a constant problem that we cannot resolve as DP will never confront FIL even when DP acknowledges FIL to be unreasonable or wrong

OP posts:
Tooner · 02/07/2019 18:15

Better to end it now Saving and to have wasted the last 6 years than to waste the rest of your life with this disfunctional family dynamic.

You will never rest if you have children with this man and worse still, something truly horrible could happen to them with the distorted attitude of your partner and his father. Best of luck.

greenwaterbottle · 02/07/2019 18:17

He's not even saying that he'd support you, he's saying he'd make a decision. He's not planning on backing you.
Please start afresh.

LazyLizzy · 02/07/2019 18:34

Why would you ever knowingly bring a child into this toxic environment?

That would be child cruelty.

Apileofballyhoo · 02/07/2019 18:41

Would your DP and you, consider moving very far away?

Otherwise you should spilt up. Because you can't have DC with this man. He will never do independent research into what is best for your DC and you will constantly be defending them and yourself to him and his DF. You'll be very unhappy.

Oliversmumsarmy · 02/07/2019 18:47

My gut says leave

Always listen to your gut.

I am in no doubt your Dp does care about you But love you and support you and be a true partnership with you is a step too far. You will always come 2nd to his df

If you care about your Dp even just as a friend until you leave he will never see what damage his father is doing.

Atm he doesn’t see the consequences to his fathers actions.

HollowTalk · 02/07/2019 18:53

I think this is one of those times when we can only advise you to leave your DP. I know it's a shame - if you're FIL died was spirited away then things would be very different, but he's alive and kicking and ready to give you PND and put any children at risk. You just can't stay with him.

If I were you I wouldn't talk this through with your partner. I would get out first. Your FIL is likely to wade in and it will be so unpleasant for you. I would get out, then write letters to everyone explaining why you did this. I wouldn't pack my things without someone from my family there, either.

Oliversmumsarmy · 02/07/2019 19:17

Given what op has said regarding her Dp not actually supporting her in other things outside of problems with fil I don’t even think fil’s death would actually solve anything

ReggaetonLente · 02/07/2019 20:16

I really could have written this about my MIL, right down to them using another language so I'm never fully sure what's been said.

Her behaviour in the first few weeks of DD's life pushed me into PND. I went to the HV and told her I wasnt good enough to be a mum, because that's what MIL had told me through her constant criticism. I will never ever forgive her and the shadow of it all still hangs over us despite DD being almost 1 now. It definitely affects our relationship and family life.

I love my DH and DD beyond all measure and would never change them. But I often think how much easier and more pleasant it would be to be married to someone whose mother I didnt despise.

WomanLikeMeLM · 02/07/2019 20:28

Do you really want to start a family knowing what will occur on a daily basis? Do not try get your partner on side, he should be man enough already to tell his father to shut up. Find someone else, a less problematic family where you will be happy and not constantly criticised.

ohfourfoxache · 02/07/2019 21:23

Run. Run like fuck.

Do not have dc with your partner, he doesn’t have your back and he will pander to fil.

Trust me, this won’t end well.

Blondebakingmumma · 03/07/2019 02:06

Leave before children. If you wait and see what FIL is like with your child and then leave, your FIL will have access to your child when your h has custody. when I read your description of the awful things he has said and done to those poor kids I was so angry.

Try for 2 weeks pulling FIL up in every aspect of poor behaviour. See if your hubby back you or FIL and I think you will have your answer as to who H will back when you have your own children

jameswong · 03/07/2019 03:29

Do not have any children with your DP. Ever. It will ruin your life.

RonnieScotts · 03/07/2019 12:01

Don't have children with this man, just don't even consider it. FIL is toxic and your DP will also be damaged by being brought up by him, he will not see how bad it is and will have been conditioned from a very young age to tow the line. As hard as it is, you really must leave.

Confusedathome · 03/07/2019 21:53

Thank you everyone for your advice and time. It's useful to hear

I don't think its fair to say FIL is abusive, but I do understand why PP have chosen that word. I wouldn't describe him like that - he loves his grandchildren, godson and children. He cares about me and DP's BIL. He's tactless - his unkindness is a lack of tact and empathy for others, it's not deliberate or planned. He would never deliberately be cruel or endanger anyone but he doesn't think about consequences (or potential consequences) of actions or words.

DP and I talked again. DP keeps saying that we just have to tell FIL not to do something and it won't happen again. It's true - if SIL tells FIL to not do someting regarding kids, he follows her instruction. Mostly. But DP is leaving out that sometimes he's already done something he knows she won't like so effectively stops because he's been caught. He's also ignoring that anything not explicitly forbidden is considered okay to do - SIL discovered that GD1 had been to Mcdonalds because on their first family trip to our local one, she shouted 'play!'. FIL had been taking her to play (and eat fries). As SIL said, it's not a big deal but she'd have liked to know that her child was going there and eating Mcdonalds. Me too! When I raise this kind of thing, DP shrugs and says 'one fry isn't a problem' or 'that's a silly thing to be upset about' - but it's not the action, its the omission, It's the assumption that SIL (and potentially a future me) would be upset and therefore should not be told. DP does this too - SIL is relatively strict on screen time. DP often allows extended periods of screen time that SIL wouldn't really be happy with and thinks its funny. He doesn't see this as undermining SIL - she wouldn't be furious with him, she'd probably shrug and say 'it's not the worst thing ever' but I know that she's being undermined and ignored. And she'd probably be a bit hurt

Sorry it's a confusing post of jumbled thoughts. I'm confused about my feelings. Worry not, we're not trying to have kids atm nor planning a wedding. We're trying to decide if we want those things together - I'm obviously on the no side. DP is quite upset too - he'd like kids with me and he feels abit betrayed by my cold feet.

OP posts:
WishingILivedOnAnIsland · 03/07/2019 23:57

Hi OP,

I suggest you google emotional abuse. I think the behaviour you describe falls cleanly within it. Namely;

  • constant criticism
  • calling a three year old a bitch
  • scapegoating (bad blood grandchild)
  • overt favouritism
  • expecting to be in control (as the patriarch) and not respecting boundaries (his adult children make their own decisions).

Also when trying to spot an abuser, look at how other people around them act. Are they desperate to please them? Scared of offending them? Willing to ignore terrible behaviour in the name of peace? Lying to you and making you feel like the problem when you identify harmful behaviour? Downplaying the harmful behaviour and covering up and making excuses for him?

I think your PIL is clearly abusive and your DP is enabling him.

Do not have kids with him.

WishingILivedOnAnIsland · 04/07/2019 00:00

Sorry, it's a side point but a mother can absolutely 'dictate what her child eats' that's a basic parenting decision and it should be respected. The fact that your DP is already doing the ground work for you to defer to your FIL in these things is a big red flag. Why the fuck should FIL have that authority over you and your child?

Blondebakingmumma · 04/07/2019 01:21

The question is does FIL act blunt and tactless with everyone outside of the family? Or is it something that he can control?

Oliversmumsarmy · 04/07/2019 08:32

He's tactless - his unkindness is a lack of tact and empathy for others, it's not deliberate or planned. He would never deliberately be cruel or endanger anyone but he doesn't think about consequences (or potential consequences) of actions or words

This is a grown man you are talking about not a child.

If you don’t want to believe he is abusive then he is a danger to children so everything everyone has said to not have children with your Dp and run for the hills stills stands.

You are making excuses for this behaviour.

This isn’t just about your FIL. Your Dp aside from the problems with fil doesn’t support you. This alone is a huge red flag.

Your Dp says that if you tell FIL not to do something he won’t do it but then you go onto say he does go against the instructions and just doesn’t tell you that he has ignored you.

Can you not see that is totally f**ked

Is it going to take your niece drowning to make you realise how dangerous this man is

ptumbi · 04/07/2019 09:29

He would never deliberately be cruel - he calls a 3yo a bitch? And favours one gs over another. That is deliberately cruel.

Read WishingI's post again. And again. He is abusive, and everyone is pandering to him and placating and appeasing.

Do not have children with your DP. The fact that he talks a different langauge in which you can't trust him to support you, is a big Red Flag too.

Yes 6 years is a lot - but 10 years and 1 child is even more. 12 years and 2 kids is much more difficult. 15 years and 3 kids who are being emotionally beaten and scapegoated and manipulated along with you - almost impossible. And 6 years looks like nothing from 20 years of mental health issues.....

Get out NOW.

greenwaterbottle · 04/07/2019 12:59

You seem to be minimising. Your posts seem to be about different people you've backtracked so much.

Bookworm4 · 04/07/2019 13:14

He would never deliberately be cruel or endanger anyone
Please stop trying to convince yourself, you are contradicting yourself.
Calling a toddler a manipulative bitch
Refusing to use car seats
Leaving toddlers unsupervised for hours
There’s a few examples of abuse and endangerment.

sadkoala · 05/07/2019 12:52

He would never deliberately be cruel or endanger anyone

He calls a 3 year old a manipulative bitch!!!
He went for a nap and left a 3yo and 5yo to fend for themselves!!!!

WTF?!

If he cannot see the potential danger his actions can bring then he does not have the ability to look after DCs !
If your DP cannot be a rock by your side then he is not a good potential father to future children.

Confusedathome · 10/07/2019 14:16

A mini update.
I'm sorry if anyone feels I've been ignoring the excellent advice or minimising. I want to play fair to FIL - he defintely endangers and criticises, but he can also be sweet and considerate. I feel trapped by culture and expecations and time. But we can't go on like this.

DP and I have set a deadline of 4 weeks to see if we can resolve some issues here. We are going to couples therapy too - only had one session so far though. He claims he's very serious about this but he's been joking about the therapy, was difficult to pin down on further dates to go. He was also very negative about me - lots blamed on my anxiety, very little acknowledgement of work I've done and improvement to my mental health.

Thank you everyone for your help. I really appreciate it. I will update when I leave. Or, if miracles happen, we resolve all this in a way that will keep my mental health and any future babies safe. Second one seems unlikely though

OP posts:
Disfordarkchocolate · 10/07/2019 14:28

Thanks for the update, I think if you strengthen your mental health you'll be far more able to cope with whatever happens. Focus on that, it's so much easier to trust your decisions when you feel mentally strong. Good luck.

greenwaterbottle · 10/07/2019 14:49

Glad you're closer to a decision