Advice please. Difficult FIL, unsupportive DP

[Confusedathome]

I've tried writing this three times. I am very confused. Have asked RL people but I think I need some anonymous, independent advice.

DP and I have been together for 6 years. Living together now and thinking about marriage/babies. Until about four months ago, I was pretty happy but am now very worried. Nothing has changed or triggered this - I am just more worried about things I was already anxious about.

FIL is very patriarchal. He expects DP and I to follow his advice - when we don't he complains (at me almost exclusively). In fact he complains constantly; he is very critical and quite unkind. DP and FIL always brush off my concerns about this criticism as a lack of education or emotional intelligence on FIL's part. His behaviour is excused and he is never expected to apologise or attempt to be nicer to anyone.

The criticism is upsetting, even when its not about me as I hear it all the time. I am more and more concerned that it will continue through a pregnancy and beyond - I am concerned about the impact on my mental health. I struggle with depression (triggered funnily enough by a constantly critical family as a child) and am aware that the high level of criticism I face from FIL is unhelpful. DP feels that I cannot assume FIL will be critical based on past experience - I feel that I can. He criticises SIL's and a family friend's parenting constantly - he feels qualified to comment on everything. He expected SIL to potty train when he told her to, to start teaching letters when he told her to, to feed nephew what he told her to - when she didn't he complained at me. He will defintely expect the same from me and I am afraid that he will simply do what he wants because he sees himself as the authority in our household. (Asian family, no MIL to temper his behaviour). He has form - he ignores godson's mother's wishes and feeds godson whatever FIL wants him to eat.

He also has a history of endangering children. I'd like to say via benign neglect but can't. He does childcare for his 'godson'. For a long time he would not use a carseat for godson (then aged 3) or even make him wear a seatbelt. Despite being told (by me, DP wouldn't at first say anything) that this was illegal and his responsibility, he said carseats aren't used in home country so he doesn't have to and it is godson's mother's responsibility to provide one. I insisted that he had to use one - DP bought one but it was only sporadically used at first until I further insisted. For SIL's children and now for godson too he does use the carseats but has told me that he thinks 3 year old is too big and doesn't need one.

There have been other incidents. Godson's sister (then aged 2) left unsupervised in bath because godson (then aged 4 and favoured by FIL) wanted to put his pjs on. Both children (then aged 3 and 5) left unsupervised for two hours in kitchen while FIL napped - they were left food but wanted Ribena that was stored on top of fridge. They pushed a chair to climb up fridge to get Ribena (according to FIL - I wasn't there). Ribena was split and FIL blamed the 3 year old - in fact he called her a manipulative bitch.

He can also be horrorifcally critical of children he does not favour. Godson's sister is described as having 'bad blood', as a bitch for very normal 3 year old behaviour. Now he has started saying that his granddaughter two is more intelligent than granddaughter one - GD2 is a little advanced developmentally than GD1 at same age but not on a genius level.

I have tried to talk to DP about all of this. Before we even start trying, I want us to agree on some values around parenting and on some clear boundaries for his dad. He won't engage at all. Either he becomes very defensive, saying that I am unreasonable, that his dad won't endanger his kids, that I can't dictate what my child eats. Other times he says if FIL does something I don't like as long as it is reasonable then DP will speak to him - but everything I say is deemed unreasonable.

I don't feel I can trust DP or FIL with a future child. I know that this is anxiety about an unknown future but I feel its irresponsible to have a baby knowing that FIL might endanger them or be incredibly cruel to them or to me. I am worried that if baby has an health problems or learning difficulties, FIL will be very quick with blame and criticism that will affect my mental health. I've seen him do this with godson's family - even if he doesn't say it to them, he's telling everyone else.

I'm sorry it's long. How do I get DP onside with me? I'd like advice on getting him to be supportive on dealing with FIL and being a team before babies.
Or do I leave now? I am very torn. 6 years is a long time to invest and in many ways we've been very happy but FIL is a constant problem that we cannot resolve as DP will never confront FIL even when DP acknowledges FIL to be unreasonable or wrong

"I want to play fair to FIL - he defintely endangers and criticises, but he can also be sweet and considerate".

Oh please, look at what you've written here and give your head a wobble.

Abusive people can be "nice" sometimes but their nice/nasty cycle is a continuous one. Your FIL does not know the meaning of the word "fair" and he only cares about his own self, no-one else is important and you are but bit part players with him being at the centre of his own universe.

"I feel trapped by culture and expecations and time. But we can't go on like this".

Honestly I would walk away from them all now; do not be trapped by culture, let alone expectations (from whom?) and time. Abusive people are in all cultures and creeds. The therapy that is currently taking place will in all likelihood fail because your partner seems totally unconvinced and is making jokes about it. He is also more than adept at blaming you as well for his inherent failings here and that is an abusive trait too. He is not taking any responsibility for his actions here.

He is abusive. Terribly so to his Godson's sister. He's also neglectful and a danger to children. Leaving kids unattended in a bath? Driving with no carseats? Would you really risk your dc like these children are risked?

He may be lovely in between, while you tread on eggshells waiting for the next time, but that is how abusers work. If they were abusive 24/7 people would run away and they'd not have many victims.

He was also very negative about me - lots blamed on my anxiety, very little acknowledgement of work I've done and improvement to my mental health.

I wonder how your anxiety will fare without someone do negative and selfish? Without treading on eggshells around in laws?

Run away.

Don’t have kids with this man, who may well turn out to be like his father. In laws like this are a warning - the apple doesn’t fall far from the tree.

It feels very difficult. I feel that I have been made into the bad guy by DP.

I'm not guiltless here - I can be very anxious and although I try to make sure it doesn't affect DP, I can be tetchy, grumpy and snappy. I do apologise and I am trying to be better. DP says that my tone can be hostile, he acknowledges that I might not know that because I might be anxious and stressed. I'm maybe not as sympathetic to FIL and SIL as I might be - I can forgive but I don't forget that the nastiness. But what I find really hard to move past is DP's lack of action or own nastiness when I raise a concern. He has said some really nasty things; he moves on quickly, not letting an argument bother him. But I can't forget that he's called me selfish and nasty for wanting to be treated with respect and consideration by him and his family. He feels (his own words) that as we're family, they should be able to borrow from me without permission and that I should happily share everything with them all. Happy to share but I'd just like to be asked first and maybe a thank you.

We talked again - DP feels I have given up on trying to resolve our issues. He says that I am very negative. That I only see the bad in others. He was critical of my friends too - pointing out their flaws and saying I let those go, but can't let FIL's flaws go. I keep trying to explain that its a different relationship. But he says I should hold everyone to the same standard - he bats off that many other people will accept responsibility for their actions, can be held to account and take action to change. which cannot be said for FIL.

It's an ongoing nightmare. I don't feel I can leave before we go to our next session because then I'm not trying. But equally I have made DP (and myself) unhappy. I don't think anyone should be with someone they believe is negative and unhelpful.

You've tried plenty. He is trying to manipulate you. FIL doesnt have flaws he has gaping negative qualities: abusive and unsafe. Im presuming your friends aren't abusive or neglectful/untrustworthy with children?

Your dp is never going to compromise and will always put you last and any future kids too. Get out while you can.

Do you not think you might feel better if you weren’t trying so hard to stand up to your FiL and DH’s criticisms, trying to bend yourself to fit their expectations? This relationship doesn’t sound at all healthy and worth continuing. I can understand that after six years it is hard to walk away, but do you really want this to be the rest of your life?

Also, you don’t have to have «tried enough» to leave a relationship, you can leave just because it is making you unhappy.

Hi OP. It's a deep-set cultural thing that you will be blamed for "not trying hard enough". It's a rotten thing to say to you, making you feel even worse than you already do.]

You don't have to attend any more sessions if you don't want to. This is YOUR life. At least you haven't married into this mess.

Hold your head up, tell him: NO, this isn't good enough for me.

You deserve better. You deserve to be happy. And you are 6 years wiser.

Bottom line is you are not happy. You shouldn't have to try so hard in this relationship when your Dp won't accept your feelings about his father. He's not going to change on that score and as time goes on you will pick up on every little negative behaviour in fil and dp will see it as just being in your head so will not support you. He's like his dad. Get the hell out now. Leave him to pander to his bully father if that's what's he wants, but you sure as hell don't have to endure that anymore. Dp thinks you are giving up, you are trying to make him see your point of view, he's not seeing it - this relationship can't really survive in a healthy manner.

OP - you're not going to succeed in making them treat you with respect.
Your DH and FIL have been conditioned to regard themselves as male patriarchs and women as 'less than', add their fragile male egos into the mix and it becomes even harder to break the spell.
They've been brought up believing that they have a God given right to be superior to females and that it's their 'duty' to 'take charge' of how women present themselves in the world.

They don't believe women are autonomous beings in their own right therefore your views/opinions don't count.
Your role is to be a dutiful/respectful doormat daughter and wife.
A man's honour and respect amongst his clan is dependent on the women behaving in a 'respectful' manner.......and it's the men who get to decide what is accepted behaviour.
This kind of thinking is so deeply ingrained into their psyche, it's like being hooked into the hive mind of the Borg, you can't 'deprogram' them - unless they choose to.

Anytime a woman asserts herself, her individual identity, and puts her wants, needs and feelings on the same level as that of a male - she is classed as being rude, disrespectful and going against the word of God.
This is why your SIL minimises the disrespect and undermining from these 'men' despite how hurt/angry she may feel about their actions.
Your SIL can't assert herself without being accused of going against religious values/beliefs and disrespecting her father.
You are also being trained to fall in line with this.
This is why your DP treats you and behaves the way he does - as far as he and FIL are concerned women have no right to challenge the authority of men, because to do so would be challenging the authority of God.

They don't class their behaviour and attitudes as abusive....and they don't care for the opinions or laws of 'nonbelievers' (which you are classed as unless you convert).
That's why your FIL gets away with calling his 3 year old granddaughter a bitch....plus being female automatically puts her into the "females are born lustful temptresses and need to be coralled asap".
Yes, the sexualisation of females starts very early in people with this kind of mindset.
This is also another reason why you get over-ruled and undermined - they don't want the younger generation growing up 'influenced' by your 'corrupted' ways.

I feel sorry for your SIL because she is trapped in this fucked up dynamic - and she can't break away from it without being disowned and ostracized from her family and community.
You're lucky because you're the 'outsider' who joined their family, so you can leave and not be impacted by the attitudes of the rest of their clan.
You're not going to get a fuck-ton of relatives descending on you and gaslighting you that this kind of treatment is 'love' and not abuse.
They can't use emotional blackmail and guilt trips, or expect you to abide by cultural/religious ways.

Your husband is allowed to marry outside his culture/faith because it's part of his religious 'duty' to bring others into the faith.
He's currently training you to act like a dutiful and subservient wife who defers to her husbands authourity.
Once that is succcessful and/or he's made you completely dependent on him - that's when the conversation and pressure will start to get you to convert.
That's when your eyes really start opening.

They will also do their best to condition your child into their way of thinking and being.
You will save yourself a lot of trouble further down the line if you split now and raise your child on your terms.

The problem I would have with his argument is that you may have a friend with a character flaw, they may well be unkind to your child and like anyone else you'd stop seeing them.
But if your FIL treats your child like he's treated other children you'd be expected for him to not only continue contact but be allowed unsupervised access.

No from me.

@SavingSpaces2019 not a religious culture. No one is beholden to religious obligations here.

i guess it makes it slightly easier if there's no religious aspect to it.
the cultural one still exists though.
that kind of mindset reminds me of the phrase "you can take the boy out of the village, but you can't take the village out of the boy".
it's a shame.

I was going to say what a gift that you have been given a window to see into the future. Your FIL will be calling your tiny daughter a bitch and manipulative. God knows what dangers he would be putting your children through. I cannot bear to think how unhappy the whole thing would make you.

However, I feel quite sick at the thought that your SIL's children are real and not imagined and they are spending time with this man right now . The example of leaving them alone for two hours and then blaming them! Neglect, abuse and heaven knows what else.

You cannot possibly want this for your children. You (quite rightly) can't bear it for yourself.

And your DP sounds horrible! He will stick up for you if he deems you to be reasonable. But thinks you are reasonable about 10% of the time probably. He has shown you so much about how he will behave if you had kids. He isn't even hiding it!

Please get away as soon as you can. I am sure you will feel so much more relaxed and happier in yourself when you are away from these awful, awful, dysfunctional people.

You are going to be the bad guy. Accept it. Stop wasting mental energy trying to convince them you are a good person. You will be the crazy manipulative bitch ex for ever more. Own it. You need the mental energy for other areas.

If I were you I would secretly move out asap. Don't tell anyone, including DH, where. DH will become as vile as his dad when he knows you are truly leaving. All communication by email and text as soon as possible. Instantly block all ILs from all forms of communication. They can rant about you being a cowbag but you are not obliged to read or hear one word of it.

Use the counselling sessions to negotiate the separation and get DH helped by the therapist to accept the separation. This is a fairly common scenario in couple's counselling you know.

Get a great lawyer as soon as possible. Secretly.

Get out of there and block every IL as soon as possible. The joy of the peace and quiet will feel amazing. It will help you grasp how bad it was.

I would recommend against announcing the separation when you have to then continue living in the house for even one day. I know it seems an over reaction and cruel and playing into their hands for seeing you as a cowbag but come on, you know any days living there after will have you subject to constant vile abuse. You don't have to do that to yourself.

@TowelNumber42 they are not married - blessed relief!

The more you post, the worse your DP sounds.
I don't like that he undermines SIL re screen time and finds it funny. Does that not indicate to you that he will also undermine you, and find it equally amusing? It does to me.
You know what to do.

Run! Fast! Better men with better families exist. You can't find them while you are wasting time here.

A final update (hopefully)

We have broken up. We have agreed to take a break and then maybe revisit going to therapy. The feeling now is that it's unlikely

I'm fluctuating between very upset and relieved.

Reread the thread might help you settle on received.
Another month and I bet you'll be looking forward to a fresh new start.

I have a sneek suspicion your Mental Health will suddenly improve

You have done the right thing. Look forward to a better future. As pp said if you re read the thread it will remind you what you have managed to get away from. Well done

I've been reading your thread full of concern for your dreadful situation. I was really pleased and excited to read your latest update. You've done absolutely the right thing. No doubt in my mind.

Your future with DP's family would have been very, very bleak. I'm so glad I won't see a thread in a couple of years time when you're being supported in a hideous divorce - and it would have been a hideous divorce.