To think im not relationship material?

[EtonM3ss]

i wonder if anyone else feels like me. I find relationships wearing and hard work. I dont really want to hear all about the others person's life and work issues. I dont really want to be involved with their family and the issues that brings. Id be crap in a relationship wouldn't i?

I do understand the concept of stereotyping but I've dated/met many men in the last decade since my marriage ended.

I've not expressed an I'll informed "all men are X". I've said that "in my experience, this is what has happened and on that basis I have come to this conclusion".

If I met someone I was attracted to who wasn't like this, I'd be more than happy to enter a relationship with them.

It just hasn't happened yet.

I have been married 31 years and love my DH but I am absolutely certain that if I was suddenly alone I really could not be arsed to go dating and get to know somebody from scratch

I do find it quite bizarre joystir that so many women in heterosexual relationships seem to feel unable to do what they want. I’m bi but have mainly dated men (I’ve given that up now!) and always carried on doing what I want, it did cause a problem for some of them and I argued and ultimately dumped them.

I also really, really do not relate to what some people on here say about female socialisation and never thinking of your own needs, being a people pleaser/doormat etc. It comes very naturally to me to put myself first. I haven’t had to learn it. I have no issue saying no to stuff and being assertive. It’s quite staggering how many women feel they can’t

I’m bi but have mainly dated men (I’ve given that up now!) and always carried on doing what I want, it did cause a problem for some of them and I argued and ultimately dumped them.

I think this is the issue though.

I'm not a people pleaser or a doormat and I do stand my ground. So it has always caused issues in relationships- especially when i get told that "women shouldn't do x, y or z"

I stand by my original comment that men expect women to comply with their demands and wishes and that women are expected to comply out of fear of being single.

Women who aren't afraid of being single often end up so because the woman will just end it and the man will just move on to find someone more docile and compliant.

I think relationship roles have changed so much, sometimes its harder in some ways for women to know ... there is a shifting sand quality. The "Cool Girl" - how I hated that media phase - on the surface all feministy and feisty - but deep down just going along with the Jocks or the Liberal Jocks, whatever.

I'm a fan of Judge Judy and sometimes she does talk about the women's need to "nest", when looking at a woman who is putting up with a load of rubbish from some man. Some of this may be socialisation, but some of it does come from who we are. I believe hormones - including female desire for sex - is also part of this. Especially when younger. But I do think the 'idea' from socialisatoin of trying to have/get a boyfriend/partner etc can be a major limiting thing. Very few women are strong and and visionary and self aware enough when young to do things by their Own Rules (very few men are too, btw).

Anyway, I'm in my fifties now and can't really be arsed with dating and getting to know someone from scratch, just as Relais describes.

I was a sexual counsellor. It was fucking staggering how pervasive porn is in men's lives, and how pervasive the damage it has wrought.

I worked alongside a lot of 'right on' people who defended porn, and yet I have seen absolutely nothing good come out of it. My own sexual encounters have mirrored this: men who have numbed themselves to the point where the only thing that gets them off is fast and furious; men who want to strangle you, slap you across the face, who want you to remove all of your pubic hair. Men, generally, who are so in their own zone, and focused on their own pleasure, that I have all but disappeared (at which point I have sometimes just got up and walked out). It has been sobering to realise, through my training, that most men who are focused on a woman's pleasure are doing so from an egoic perspective: they're not so much interested in how a woman feels, as they are in how what a woman feels makes them feel.

Something has gone very wrong in the way we relate to each other. And, I think we women are equally to blame. Not a popular perspective, perhaps, but one that holds a lot of weight for me.

Agree with you 100% Dolores.

It wasn't always like this. Even in the 70s and 80s men's exposure to porn was usually limited. Sex with a man who has had significant exposure to porn is a very grim (and dull) thing indeed. Speaking from experience. Its not an attractive prospect for a woman.

romantic and sexual energy is directed only towards me

Exactly. I mean thats how it should be. How could it be other at its best?

I'm pregnant and single and now that I've got the baby I always wanted coming, I suddenly don't see the point of a relationship at all anymore! I have never been great at them (just over 3 years is my longest) but I didn't realize until now how much of me wanting one was based on me wanting children.

Today I was chatting with family about how fine I felt being single and pregnant and it occurred to me that literally the only advantage I could think of to having a partner right now was someone to help me with flat pack furniture!

That's not to say I am closed to a relationship if the right guy turned up, it's just that I am happy single, I really am, and it would take someone very special to alter the equation.

I too am in the category of not wanting someone in my home and all that goes with it. So I do find lovers instead.

I completely agree that men who are in their 40s often have porn related issues in the bedroom and the difference is really noticeable. You can tell who has a porn problem and who does not. And it’s a really good test of the man - if they don’t see it themselves, it’s not your job to enlighten them. That’s like another job like telling people to pick up socks or do some shopping!

Candles you’re absolutely right. I did go out with one man who used to explicitly say ‘women shouldn’t do x y and z’ I’d laugh at him and challenge his dinosaur views. There were a couple of others who were self-described supporters of feminism and very pro being independent and doing what I wanted, so there wasn’t an issue of them trying to control me in that respect, but they certainly couldn’t handle being challenged if I disagreed with their view on something or questioned their behaviour. It was all about them, and ultimately wanting someone to be compliant, exactly as you said. Nooooo thank you!

If your argument goes that you're not relationship material because you're happy on your own / have a full life / just don't want a relationship....nowt wrong with that at all. In many senses, it's very healthy. I'm damned happy on my own, and so I would only want a relationship if someone totally awesome comes along, who will add to my life.

If, on the other hand, your argument goes that your relationship issues are all because "all blokes are twats / men who want a confident, independent woman are a myth / men bore you rigid / insert degrading observation about men here", then you sound very much like those charming male incels. It's not really any different to their patter of "women are only interested in rich guys / women are shallow / women just want guys with six packs / insert misogynistic bollocks here".

Ultimately, decent people tend not to be attracted to people who clearly despise them - whether that's male incels who blame all their relationship woes on women, or female misandrists who blame all their relationship woes on men. Neither of them are attracting someone with any sort of self esteem any time soon!

Just a thought...

most men who are focused on a woman's pleasure are doing so from an egoic perspective: they're not so much interested in how a woman feels, as they are in how what a woman feels makes them feel

Yes this! 1000x over!

Sex with a man who has had significant exposure to porn is a very grim (and dull) thing indeed

And this.

I have only had one really good sexual relationship and that was with a man who had autism and didn't like porn or even sex scenes in films. The sex was so unlike anything I've experienced before. Not because it was technically magnificent or because it was adventurous or because he was 'focused on me'. But because it was a genuine connection between two people who cared about each other very deeply and were attracted to each other. I almost feel like he spoilt sex for me really. I can't imagine I'll ever meet anyone again who I will have sex like that with.

A lot of men seem to do sex to you rather than have sex with you.

Becoming a single parent left me unable to pursue relationships (I'm not in contact with DS's father, so no alternate weekends on which to have a social life), and (like a lot of women) my libido tanked anyway when DS was small. (Which, weirdly, felt wrong even though I would have had no outlet for my sex drive; I felt, to use my mum's phrase, dead from the neck down.)

I was always a people pleaser, and my relationships typically followed a pattern of bending over backwards to accommodate whatever bloke I was with, until every time I'd sooner or later realise I'd disappeared, flip, and leave the relationship. Not healthy, I realise, but seemed to be the way I was wired up/socialised to be. Now I feel almost like the menopause has flicked a switch. I no longer give a shit, and simply can't imagine being with anyone.

Candles, I completely understand that. A man like that is completely amazing. Not many around, but I remember them with huge affection.

Candles cross post. I had a lovely boyfriend in my late twenties who genuinely approached sex that way - it was fantastic.

SlightlyMisplaces

See, I don't disagree with you entirely.

But this has been my experience with every single man I've dated, whether they've been relationships that ended after X number of years/months or a first date that didn't make it to a secod. With the exception of the nice boy I went out with when I was 17.

Oh that the comment about all blokes are twats, it was a male friend who said that.

I don't despise men. I'm just increasingly disappointed in them.

SlightlyMisplaced there is a difference between incels (comes from entitlement) and feeling jaded with men because of their ingrained misogyny - which many are not doing on purpose - and the structural inequality between men and women from which they benefit, and informs their attitudes and behaviour. Feeling fed up of and cynical about men because of negative experiences doesn’t come from narcissism and entitlement, if comes from a fundamental lack of true equality

I'll join this club.

I've had long term, serious, cohabitive relationships but been much happier out of them than in them. I often think my ideal relationship is with someone who...
a) does not live in the same house
b) does not feel the need to talk every day
c) spends large amounts of time away, perhaps for work
d) does not have a family

I also agree that the modern availability of porn has ruined sex. I'd rather not have sex than repeat some of the depressing experiences in encounters over the last few years - all of which seem to have been influenced by the other person's over exposure to online porn.

So, if I want my own space and own decisions, don't want to compromise my life and don't want to have depressing sex then I have concluded I probably don't want a relationship.

Fermats I was with this man in my early 40s. Took until then to have truly enjoyable sex that I really wanted within a genuinely loving relationship. He's the only man I've ever truly loved and tbh, they were pretty big boots to fill in many respects.

So no, SlightlyMisplaced I'm not a misandrist. I just know my worth.

I'm not a misandrist. I just know my worth

I have often been accused of being a man hater, but I'm not! My own direct experience of me has informed my view of them,and as a class I don't like them, and on an individual basis I only want them around me for limited time. I have to say I find women so much more interesting, but I really don't enjoy spending g time with straight couples because the dynamic of the woman deferring to the man, or being silent in their presence, is so very common, and so irritating!!!

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