How did you know it was the end?

[raindropsandrosepetals]

This may be long, sorry.

My question is, if you have ended your marriage/LTR, how did you know it needed to end and there wasn't any hope at working on it?

Over the years DH and I seem to go in cycles of being fine and then having phases of disagreements/arguments.

We met when I was a teenager so I've only ever had a proper relationship with DH and I've realised I don't actually know what is "normal" in a relationship. As I've got older though, I've realised that there have been some things that have happened or been said that I accepted and moved on from that I wouldn't accept now. Age and wisdom and all that? When we were younger it was (or I thought it was) passionate and heated, but now it just feels draining. I've also lost all sex drive and although we have got on fine over the last few months, this is more as friends/in co-parenting roles. We have good family days out and generally run the house well. He works shifts whereas I work week days so it is often down to me to sort wrap around childcare or alternate my working hours to fit.

We've hit a particularly low point now where there's been another disagreement and he will not accept any responsibility or wrongdoing and will not apologise unless I point it out, which by then the words has little meaning to me. I've tried to work on my fitness recently to deal with weight gain and for a general mood lift but I don't feel supported by him when I do this. He goes quiet on me when I say I'm going to the gym or a very rare night out. I otherwise do very little for myself due to having the children so much when he's at work.

I have anxiety and am questioning myself whether this is "real" or my anxiety making me doubt and question myself and dragging up old issues in my head. Or is the added responsibility of work and children that makes it harder to work at a marriage compared to a young couple.

Sorry this did end up long and not particularly specific. I've tried to access counselling through my work to have someone impartial to talk to but there isn't any available at the moment.

If there was DV or cheating I'd be more confident in how I feel but it's the general shitness that is, just shit.

I had tried to make him see the problems in our relationship, but I realised he would only take what I said seriously if I threatened to leave.

But then, I had become convinced he was a narcissist. So I knew there was no hope of him seeing me as a real separate person.

Not sure that's much help in your situation. I would maybe try ignoring his lack of support as a little taster of life without him. Detach from him emotionally a bit. Concentrate on building yourself up - don't let him stop you doing that.

How long has this bad patch been going on for?

@CharlotteCollinsneeLucas thank you for replying. If I'm honest I have already naturally begun detaching emotionally from him.

Current bad patch.... a few weeks building up, latest proper argument this week although my lack of sex drive has been much longer.

Arguments are usually initiated on something minor. It's not the "thing" that's the problem, it's his reaction as he sees it as a huge criticism if that makes sense?

Can’t offer much advice but in spookily similar situation. Only ever been with DH & he insists that things he’s called me in arguments etc are normal & I can’t judge it as I don’t have the reference points. He says others say worse. But none of the female friends I’ve confided in say it’s normal. I am now quite emotionally detached but just too scared to make a decision in case I’m making a huge mistake.

For me, it was realising nothing would ever change, we were stuck in the same patterns. It was pointless trying to agree anything with him, because he'd never keep faith with me on any of it (we had tons of issues - money, infidelity etc). Like we'd agree to clear a creditcard, aand cut it up, and he'd use it again or request a new card. Etc etc. One day he fucked up again big-style, and I just couldn't be arsed any more.

@Monkeyblu i don't know if that makes me sad or relieved someone is in the same situation. I've had that before too. I have it good apparently and he'll say "at least I'm not like x" like I'm supposed to be grateful he doesn't spend all his free time drinking at the football like some friends.

Yes it's the fear of making a huge mistake that blows my mind. He's so sure of himself that I doubt myself and wonder if I am the unreasonable one 🤷🏼‍♀️

I feel for you and the dragging sense of indecisiveness.

I have a similar relationship. Our bad patch has been about two years, sparked by me wanting another child. Our little one is now 13 months. The resentment on both sides is draining the colour from our lives. Arguments and petty disagreements is our everyday. He is determined to carry on regardless, his parents bicker constantly even now in their seventies, maybe he knows no better.

I’ve carved out a little time for myself and have been seeing a life coach for a couple of months. She has encouraged me to develop a weekly exercise practice, daily meditation, journaling and gives me reading. I am taking responsibility for my part. I am also learning to be aware of myself, my needs and wants. I am finding my voice.

I still don’t know what I want from the relationship but I feel that I am growing and developing and building an understanding of who I am and what I want.

On my reading list is Belonging Here, a guide for the spiritually sensitive person by Judith Blackstone and Shadow Dance, liberating the power and creativity of your dark side by David Richo

xx

@raindropsandrosepetals I think that even if they really do know someone who has that same behaviour it doesn’t make it right (in general or for us). My gut tells me it’s wrong - now I just have to trust my instinct

@category12 I fear nothing will ever change 

@Wren84 thank you for sharing. Interesting. My ILs do not really bicker but MIL is so passive it's ridiculous. She does all the 'wifework'. FIL can't even cook. Maybe that affects how DH thinks, that I should be the 'little woman' and can't handle someone with a voice (although you'd think he'd have learnt after all this time!)

That has reminded me of when we moved in together quite young. I "wasn't allowed" a bin in the bathroom as it wasn't necessary (ie he didn't need it) I said I wanted one for sanitary items. We argued, I ended up upset. His mother never had one so clearly it wasn't needed and I needed to see a doctor for being so emotional. He apologised eventually and we got a bin and I thought everything was ok

He stabbed me whilst I was holding our baby.

That sounds familiar to me- we do have a bin in the bathroom but I didn't put sanitary items in because DH found it too shocking.

These days I have a mooncup.

I realised he was lazy and took me for granted and was never going to change. I got sick of asking for help only to be shouted at. Tired of hysterics and sulking if I went out without him. I got sick of mothering him. I got sick of doing all the cleaning, washing, cooking, ironing, gardening, paying bills, arranging every night out, holiday etc. I also got sick of listening to him criticising everyone else! I gradually went off sex with him (we never had a good sex life). In the end I couldn’t bear him touching me and I didn’t care any more about him/us. In fact once the blinkers fell off I never looked back. He went away for a weekend and I felt I’d been liberated! I imagined my life like that all the time and I knew then it was over.

This is funny but sad about the bin.

Me and ex-dp had this thing about bins. I bought one for the bedroom, my side, for cosmetics wrappers etc. He kept removing it as it was dirty. I explained my views. Overridden. Bin moved downstairs. It's such a little thing but it's actually about respect and controlling your own environment. It is the little things that do for you, because if you've made it to several years, the big things have been tackled by then.
With my SIL, it was a disagreement over appropriate cookware that did it.
Death by a thousand cuts!

My ex used to have a weird thing about the kitchen bin - he thought I didn't empty it often enough (apparently I was a poorly performing cleaner). After I moved out, he took the kitchen bin and left it next to the front door, where it has stayed a year now. (We did complicated house swapping thing; have actually been apart 5 years.) Instead, he now has a plastic bag hanging from a door handle, as if that is better.
I know that wasn't the main point, sorry 😂

I knew it was over when I had a session with his counsellor. She was not properly qualified, and was terrible. She was actually trained to counsel businessmen who needed help with solution finding, and was desperately trying to make the story I was telling fit into that pattern so that the session would end well. It didn't fit into the pattern, I realised, because there was no solution; no lovely neat tying up of loose ends.

Can you see any way out of the current situation other than breaking up?

My ex was also very defensive, we could never discuss things properly. In the end it was his affair that ended it, though. I should probably thank him for it, as my thinking wasn't as clear as yours seems to be; it was only after we broke up that I realised it was him making me feel unreasonable.

Like you I'd never had another proper relationship. I'm learning now ... had a couple of boyfriends, both capable of admitting fault. It makes a difference. When both of you openly acknowledge that both of you are bound to sometimes make a mistake, be in a bad mood or say something stupid, then the whole blame game breaks down and you can both relax and stop feeling guilty. I'm now also less defensive myself: there's less of a drama about whose fault anything is.

He goes quiet on me when I say I'm going to the gym or a very rare night out.
Why?

I would say my story was very similar to yours op. Together since teens, grew up and apart, both became resentful of each other, he would never take any responsibility for anything he had done wrong or hadn’t done. It all became about blame.
It really messed with my self esteem and my anxiety was through the roof.
I knew we needed to separate, but I couldn’t see how that could happen.

So I went to counselling, cost a lot and I’m still paying for it. But it helped me realise what I wanted.

The resentment built up, and it turned nasty in the end. He wouldn’t leave, so we did.

It was the best thing I have ever done. Interestingly my anxiety has lessened, I dont second guess my self and my mental health is so much better. I don’t walk on eggshells anymore. But most importantly I’m so much happier.

I also realised (and this may sound awful) that it would be better to see my children less, than live with the constant criticism and self esteem bashing

@FlamingoFlamenco gosh I'm so sorry that happened to you 

@ravenmum I honestly don't know anymore which is why I have tried to get counselling through work but it seems to have been cut so there's none locally.

As for the gym, I don't know. I've tried asking him and he denies it but it's definitely there. I say I'm going to the gym this morning for an hour and he'll looked surprised and say "Oh. Ok" silence.

@Freddiefox everything you've said really resonates.

Will look into the cost of private counselling.

I wish I knew the answer to this. I have moments where I can't do it anymore but I'm too exhausted and scared to follow through. He makes me anxious, I don't like how he parents but some part of me still feels something for him and can't let go. I think I know we're done but I can't let go of the last flicker of hope.

@DarkestBeforeTheDawn4 I could have written that myself. When we were younger we broke up a lot. Always initiated by him for some spurious reason. Now I'm not so young (!) and don't have that fiery passion in me anymore I'm just tired of it.

Maybe he thinks you are up to no good at the gym (or somewhere else), or spending too much money? Would it be worth asking?!

How do you think he would feel about breaking up, do you think? It's a big step, but not the end of the world. Things get sorted out and you have a new normal. Do you think you could sell him a breakup as "We would both be happier apart" and he might come round to the idea?

After all the secrecy and blaming of my ex's affair, looking back he could have just come to me and asked if I wanted to stay together. I'd sometimes thought about breaking up too. Could have all been a lot simpler.

@raindrops - thank you for your kind words. Reading back, it's a bit of a blunt sentence that I've written there, so I'm sorry for that.It lays at the back of my mind for moths - sometimes years - then something brings it to the fore, like now. I was lucky, I was against the main door when he did it (I was pinned to it through the top of my shoulder) , and somehow I managed to get out into the street and to a neighbours house where everything was dealt with.

It happened a long time ago - before mumsnet - and how I wish I'd had the backing of this fab website back then. But it is what it is.

There is so much advice that can be given re a relationship, and it is hard for you as the recipient to know what to do - as you have said in your op. But I will say this one thing.

If there was DV or cheating I'd be more confident in how I feel but it's the general shitness that is, just shit

^^You do not need a reason to end the relationship. You do not have to justify ending it to him, you or anyone else.
It is your life. You only have the one. Take it. Live it. With smiles, with hope.With positivity.

I'm there now. We have had low points, he's slept in the spare room but after 2-3 weeks I've persuaded him to come back to our room and it gets forgotten, except now I don't think I want to fight for him, he says he's had enough and I'm just thinking good.

We had jogged along for years, he has mental health issues and I kept thinking that one day things would change and we would be able to have a balanced relationship. But his depression and anxiety just got worse over the years, despite medication and counselling and me listening to his never ending difficulties. We became like flat mates but I still couldn’t call it a day because I felt he really needed my support and he wasn’t a bad person and never did anything bad to me.
Then one day, won’t go into details, but I really needed him to be able to put me first and really have my back and he just couldn’t do it. That was me done.

I was unhappy for a long time. Years, probably. He ground me down with coercive control tactics and I lost my self esteem. We got together young, as well, and I didn't really know what was normal in a relationship. What we had wasn't.

It didn't come to a head until he attacked me last month. I kicked him out. It has been deeply traumatic for me and my DC, but it's better than living under his storm clouds all the time.