Ex partner, our daughter and where I stand.

[WRB23]

Hi everyone,

Just looking for some advice really. I have a 1 year old daughter with my ex partner and I am finding it really difficult to know where I stand legally and how much right I have when it comes to standing up to my ex.

My ex has always been rather difficult when it comes to our daughter, she likes to control where I see our daughter, where I take her (if I am ever allowed to take her out) and the contact that my daughter has with my parents.

This all came to a head today when I received a phone call from my ex to inform me that she has suddenly decided to get our daughter christened and has booked a date today. Now I don’t have an issue with our daughter being christened my issue is the way that she has gone about it.

Rather than discussing anything with me or even checking that the date works etc etc she has just gone ahead and done it. I have tried to explain that I feel it’s a bit crazy to just suddenly wake up and decide to get the kids christened and to do it all without the slightest communication with me before doing it. She is now trying to tell me where it’s all happening, who’s being invited, who’s not coming or not allowed to come. She doesn’t seem to get or want to get where I am coming from. It just turned into an argument about my apparent need to control the situation and that I’m childish and need to grow up. However throughout the whole conversation she referred to our daughter as ‘my’ daughter and the guests being invited as ‘her’ guests so it feels as if the only controlling one here is my ex.

I just don’t know how I can try and explain to my ex that I want to be involved, I want to know these things, I have a right to know these things and have an input.

I am listed on my daughters birth certificate so have rights but when I have mentioned that in the past my ex has (wrongly) told me she can have me removed.

Any one out there with any advice?

See a solicitor. Its as simple as that. You cant be rational with people who are in that kind of mind set.

As above, see a solicitor, get it in writing about access etc.

I hate women who do this to men, and chances are she is giving out to her friends and family about how you never help out etc. etc.

It sounds like she's still feeling scorned about your relationship. It may sound stupid but is there a chance she still loves you? When did you both breakup?

Can you think of anything you've done or been doing to trigger her? Have you been awkward and uncommunicative with her regarding your daughter and she is therefore trying to do the same?

I'd speak to a solicitor and see if you can get something official in place. As long as you do your best to be civil and fair, it should all even itself out in time.

If your child is being christened during a normal church morning service anyone can attend!

She's being controlling. Too manynwkmen think they have the right to do this. They don't. You are equal parents.

You both have parental responsibility, and so decisions about things like christenings should be made jointly. She doesn't get to decide who comes to the church - feel free to invite whomever you like.

Formalise residence arrangements. Your daughter is absolutely old enough to have overnights with you, and you do not need your ex's permission for the things you do with your daughter, or the people you see, on your time. Make sure your home is set up for your daughter, and you have everything you need to care for her there. Put forward a clear proposal for access arrangements, and follow it up with legal action if needed.

You need to show that she can't just push you around and control your relationship with your daughter. You need to be working towards a constructive co-parenting relationship with your ex, where you can both put your daughter first, and work together as equals. It sounds like she won't be able to get there until she has learned that she doesn't get to call all the shots.

With the christening, whatever she might be thinking about a guest list, churches are public buildings so anyone can attend unless there's a court order to the contrary (it's really hard to bar someone from a church!) but you need to talk properly, individual events can be dealt with by expensive solicitors but what you really need is so agree ground rules for coparenting, a mediator can be used if you can't do it yourselves

Hi Everyone,

Thank you for your replies.

I have been to spend some time with my daughter this evening and unfortunately there has been little change in my ex’s attitude. I noticed a list of people she was planning to invite so thought I would try again to bring it up. Unfortunately I was met with the same response as earlier. It seems as though everything has been planned and arranged without any thought for my input, venue, godparents, who to invite etc.

I tried and failed miserably to explain that I don’t have an issue with the christening more that I want to be involved and that I have a right to be. She’s not interested though. She seems incapable pf having an adult conversation and has said ‘well if you start telling me who’s not going, I’ll say your parents aren’t going to come, I’ll go to court and say that they don’t know the children and that they can’t come’ She genuinely believes she has complete control over everything and that I don’t matter.

I don’t mean this in a derogatory way at all but I genuinely believe she has a problem because some of her behaviours and attitudes are just not normal!

The biggest issue is that she thinks she controls every aspect of our daughters life and that I have no input and I am being looked at as the sperm donor( oh well unless she wants me to pay for something, then I’m involved)

Firstly OP the courts won’t and can’t do anything about who is allowed to attend a christening, there would have to be injunctions in place for that, and she’d need good reasons to get one of them.

In your update, you say I genuinely believe she has a problem because some of her behaviours and attitudes are just not normal! This makes little alarm bells tinkle for me. Many’s the story I hear of not particularly nice men saying things like this about their ex. No doubt my ex says such things about me where as I, and the authorities for that matter, would tell a different story.

I’m not saying you’re one of these men btw but is there a reason your ex is limiting your involvement? From the pov of a single mother I’d love my child to have a committed father. Single parenting is hard work and the additional support would be welcome, and its better for kids to have a good relationship with both parents after all. Despite my ex’s shitty behaviour I did my level best to keep things friendly for the sake of my son, so I’m asking, is there a reason why your ex is being difficult? Even if you disagree with her reasoning, are there issues that she perceives to be the reason why she is denying you this level of input?

Well you could legally prevent her from going ahead with the Christening.
If that is what you want to do. But is this a battle you want to pick with her? In your shoes I would tell her to go ahead with her Christening and that none of your family will attend the ceremony. Neither will you exercise your rights to stop it.
If you want organise a separate family celebration or ask the priest to do a blessing, explaining the situation.

Dont argue with stupid and get court ordered access sorted out.

Whatisthisfuckery - I apologise for any offence I may have caused with this comment. I in know way meant for it to come across as me slandering her name and I certainly for one wouldn’t ever belittle someone in that way. It was meant due to the fact that her moods and attitudes change very very quickly. She will go from offering me an input to then disagreeing almost immediately and telling me that I don’t have to be a part of it, she can do whatever she wants, if I say this then she can stop this happening etc etc. On pretty much every occasion regarding our daughter she refers to her as her daughter and acts as though she can do whatever she likes and that I have no right to know.

I think there is one main reason for this.. Some 6 months later She is now pregnant in another relationship. Her attitude is also that men are not important, certainly when they are separated. She’s had plenty of experience with that from watching her mother be exactly the same and other female family members who all act as if the dad is purely a sperm donor and that’s where their responsibilities end. She also has a child from a previous relationship who I took on when we got together however she has tried to distance that relationship and I know that I have no legal right when it comes to him so cannot really do a lot about that unfortunately.

In that case the courts are your best option. Courts tend to be very keen for DC to spend time with their fathers so you could put forward a timetable that you think would be fair and they would decide the best way to proceed. This might be your best option because once an order is in place, she will be in breach if she refuses. I think it costs £255 to make an application, then you could either get a solicitor if you can afford it or work on the submissions yourself.

In the mean time, are you paying maintenance? If you’re not paying the correct amounts and on time then you should do so. If and when a court order is obtained any maintenance payments would be adjusted by CMS.

If you’re not currently paying via direction from CMS or if you have an informal arrangement then you should call them and they will conduct an assessment. There is a fee for this. It was £20 when I did it but that was a few years ago so I’m not sure if it’s changed in that time.

Basically belt and braces, get your end in order so she’s got nothing to throw at you and then apply to court.

WRB, you are between a rock and a hard place. I think I would arrange a separate ceremony/blessing for your daughter at your local church, inviting all your family without being under a cloud and stressed by holding a joint ceremony with your ex. By the sounds of things you need a mediator. I would make arrangements for formal access that suits you both. Unfortunately relationships breakdown and if you are always there for your daughter she will know this in the future. I am the mother to sons whose father never kept in touch for the last 12 years no matter how hard I tried, nor paid a penny for their upbringing. They are now 19 and 17 and it has really affected them that their father could leave, produce more children with other women and have no contact. Stay strong for your daughter

As everyone else has said, you need legal advice and to arrange contact properly through the court.

The christening is a side issue. But she shouldn't be able to chop and change contact with no notice (and it's not good for your daughter either). Please see a solicitor.

Just to answer the question about maintenance. We have an arrangement between ourselves and I pay £400 every month. I know this is above what I legally need to contribute however I want to make sure I am providing. This is also on top of me buying nappies, wet wipes, food pouches etc for our daughter because my ex seems to not buy enough of things. I think every Saturday that I have been to see my daughter I have had to stop to buy wet wipes, milk, food and nappies because she has run out. I probably contribute well over £600 a month in total if not more.

I know the court side of things is probably the natural process however I know what a can of worms that will be opening if I do ( I’m dealing with a woman here who accuses me of shouting and being rude when I disagree with her or question something she has said). I really want knowledge and advice so that I know when I have conversations with her where I stand legally so when she try’s to argue with me I can reply from a position of knowledge and strength. Unfortunately my ex is very good at portraying an image to everyone else. I have resorted to documenting every conversation we have to try and keep track.

But we can't tell you where you stand legally; we have no idea about your situation, your personalities, your history, your relationship with your daughter or your long-term parenting plans.

It's a good idea to document every conversation but you really do need to make this formal, whether she likes it or not.

Maybe someone else on here can help more with the legal side of things? But you really do need to see a solicitor.

Yes, keeping a log is a good idea, including times you have to buy things for your DC.

It very much sounds to me that the court would be your best way forward. You’d be surprised how keen courts are to maintain regular access between fathers and their DC. Even very abusive men are given access to their kids that they probably shouldn’t. Also it’s worth remembering that your relationship with the mother is not what the courts will be looking at, they’re interested in what’s best for the child, so even though you may have a tempestuous relationship with the mother it’s a side issue. A court order will protect you both. It will be legally binding and there will be consequences if it’s not adhered to.

Again, CMS is a good idea, even if you choose to pay more.It would not go against you in the long run because it can be proved that you have paid. At the moment your ex could say you’re paying that money for any reason she could come up with, and unless you could prove otherwise then you wouldn’t have a leg to stand on. If you involve CMS then you could pay the amount each month, then a seperate payment if you wish. The point is that everything is documented, traceable and evidenced.

Regarding your ex saying you shout at her, do you ever do that? Is there anything in those accusations? Even if you disagree, can you see why she might think that?

Your best bet is to keep contact with her to a minimum. Communicate via text or email only apart from pick up and drop off and don’t engage with her other than on basic ‘I’ll be back by 5pm’ type things. Try not to react if she tries to provoke you, just keep it to yes and no or we can discuss it by email etc.

Finally, use condoms ffs. You’re perfectly capable of using your own contraception if you don’t want to make a woman pregnant. Contraception is not just the woman’s job. If you don’t want to end up in a similar situation in the future then take responsibility for your own sperm.

Oh no I don’t expect legal advice via the forum I meant if I was to go via the legal channel, almost have a sheet of paper documenting my legal rights that I can refer to. I believe it will get to a stace where more formal court proceedings would be needed, I can see things becoming more and more complicated when her new child arrives!

I hadn’t thought about going through the official channel regarding money however what you have said makes a lot of sense. Some toys were bought recently which I wanted to contribute to separately and I was then chased for the money by my ex because she needed to do a food shop?!

No, I am very careful not to raise my voice, when arguments take place I think generally voices can become frustrated but that is what she turns into me screaming and shouting. She is very calculated in her discussions... she will quite happily argue with me in front of the children however if I try to calmly reply she will tell me to stop talking about it in front of the children? For example the other evening she was trying her utmost to get a raise from me, she was constantly nipping away at me and when I ignored her to save an argument and started talking to my daughter she called me ‘rude, disrespectful and told me not to ignore her in her own home. I have so many more examples of this, the rule seems to be that she can say whatever she likes and unless I sit and take it all like a little mouse I am being disrespectful, rude and I’m screaming and shouting.

On the contact side of things that’s quite difficult. My ex pretty much refuses to allow me to take my daughter out and if I do I have to be within walking distance of her house. She likes to criticise me and insult me by saying I don’t know what I’m doing or that I can’t deal with my daughter. She also likes to use our daughter as a weapon by saying she screams when she comes to me, she doesn’t want to come to me etc etc which breaks my heart and which could not be further from the truth! The ironic thing is that when my ex wants to go out with her new partner I’m more than capable of dealing with my daughter. I also don’t feel like her criticism is justified as recently we have had 2 A&E trips whilst my daughter was in my ex’s care!

We were in a loving relationship and decided to have a child things just planned out very differently! I think she may be the one who needs contraception advice. 6 months into a new relationship, a 6 year old with some newly diagnosed behaviour based issues and a one year old and already pregnant with another child!

Apply to the court, there is no other advice than that. You are an adult with internet access, there is a wealth of information at your fingertips.

The court will decide how much you can see your child and when and how that will happen. It’s unlikely you’d get over nights at the moment because DC is so young but that will be factored into any order for the future if appropriate.

Do the CMS thing. Whatever extra you choose to pay from then on will be up to you, she will have no recourse.

If there have been a number of hospital visits recently then I suspect SS will become involved if it happens again. If you have any concerns about your DC’s welfare you should alert them yourself. They would step in, speak to all involved, look at living environment and do an assessment to decide if they have any concerns. They are massively over stretched atm so they won’t do anything if they feel the child is adiquately cared for. It’s not worth the upset unless you have genuine concerns but if you do then that is why they’re there.

Your ex sounds very manipulative.
I honestly think the best thing for you to do is contact a solicitor and go down the legal route. It will give yourself and child much more stability and peace of mind.
She sounds very unreasonable and I don't think you will get anywhere with out doing it all legally.
I totally commend you for paying more than you should, your reasoning is well intended, but based on what you've said, she is blatantly taking the piss out of you. I'd be inclined to go down the CMS route and put the extra money in a savings account for your daughter. You could also offer to pay for baby needs like nappies, wipes and milk, but you buy and provide it, as it seems she obviously doesn't budget very well if she needs your maintenance money to do the food shop.
If ultimately you think it will end up in court, then be proactive and start proceedings now, why wait for things to get even worse?

Op the advice is consistent go down a legal route for access and maintenance. Otherwise you child will live a life stuck in the middle of disagreement and arguments over every aspect of her life.

There's some advice here for both divorced and separated parents on agreeing arrangements for their child(ren). It doesn't state "rights" but advises on steps to take, whether you're agreeable, can't agree, need something more legal etc

www.gov.uk/looking-after-children-divorce

Like all threads here, there’s always one hell of a back story that we don’t know about.

She sounds immature and difficult, yes.

You say she controlled where you see your daughter, where you could take her, seeing your parents, staying close to home... now that sounds awful and yes - controlling - when you post it here.

But looking at your thread in January, your daughter was 9 months old and you’d been split 6 months. So that’s actually a mother talking about a 12 week old baby. It’s not unusual for a mother to set quite strict rules around contact with a tiny baby. She’s not always right of course, and many fathers are great with their children. But many are not.

On which topic...
There’s 2 ways of looking at your comments that she’s seen her mother and female members treat men as sperm donors, and your comment that she’s pregnant so soon with a third to a third father.

1. Her whole family don’t value fathers and she’s feckless and irresponsible with at least one of her pregnancies

1. Actually her mother and family would have loved to have had involved fathers but life has taught them that it is men who are irresponsible and can’t be relied upon. You make it sound like her own father was absent? Just for a moment, can you entertain the idea that this is an an example of an irresponsible and unreliable man, not her mother being at fault for using a sperm donor? Where is her 6yo’s father? Because I expect you’re going to tell me that he’s nowhere to be seen as she deals with the child and their behavioural issues. And the new pregnancy? Again, I’m going to ask you to just try a new perspective for a moment... if it was an accidental (genuine, not carelessness) pregnancy - then the father is equally responsible. If it was carelessness - again, the father was equally involved. If it was planned... hasn’t she done similar as you did? Plan a baby too quickly. So let’s not assume she treats men as sperm donors. Perhaps she hopes each time it’ll be different, but life keeps showing her that men just aren’t all that reliable. Your own relationship... you’d split up by the time the baby was 12 weeks old. It’s not a great track record for either of you! I’m not saying she’s done nothing wrong, but I am saying - how about you think more carefully about WHY she doesn’t have a positive experience of father figures in her life.

You may not be like that.

But it might help you to understand WHY she thinks she gets to be the decision maker. If her experience for her herself and her mother and other family is that blokes fuck off leaving you holding the baby - well, it would influence you!

You did post about her new boyfriend in January, and were told that your interest was overstepping the mark. You wanted her back. If we had the full backstory, are you sure we wouldn’t agree with her that you were controlling too?

I’m interested that your report of the christening guest list argument was her saying if YOU tell her who is NOT going, she won’t let you bring your parents. That’s a cheap shot from her about your parents. But why did she think you were telling HER to invite??

It sounds like she has been brought up in, and then been involved in, a series of relationships where men have not been reliable.

Show her that that is not you.
Sort out contact - solicitor if necessary.
Withdraw from her life, if you’re still as involved as you were in January.

Ellisandra: Thank you for your reply,

You’re absolutely entitled to assume that regarding my post in January and that perhaps it is not unusual however in January I was deemed more than capable to care for our daughter until the early hours of the morning whilst my ex partner went out, however should I suggest taking her to visit a local farm for example that is completely out of the question, That’s where there is no correlation. Even to this day when I suggest taking her out I’m told all manner of excuses ‘ah it’s a bit too hot today’ . At the age of one it is not fair on my daughter to have to spend every time I’m with her inside, yes there will be genuine reasons as to why she couldn’t be taken out but I’m never met with genuine reasons. I then have the fact I don’t do anything with her thrown at me as a reason for me being ‘useless’ when in reality I’m not allowed to!

I read your second point with great interest and I do absolutely see both points of view. Having some knowledge of the situation there may have been one occasion where it is down to an irresponsible man. However what I will say is that there are two sides to every story. As far as our relationship was concerned we had been together for 4 years, it was no flash in the pan and was planned. Things went wrong after that... both at fault for that however what I will say is that during that time it was very clear what her attitude was towards not just men helping but anyone other than her own mother being involved with our daughter. I would just add that do you not think your comment about my ex hoping to get it ‘right’ every time she has a child is a bit of a dangerous attitude? Where does it then stop? What happens if this new relationship fails? Does she have a fourth?

Yes she may have had bad experiences and memories of men however why should that now effect my ability to be there for my daughter? I can never be accused of never being there for my daughter in fact I am the one being pushed away by my ex from being a father. She has even said to me she wishes I would just disappear. I don’t care what has happened in any one’s life, when that is said who are you really thinking about here? Our daughter or yourself? Why should her bad experiences then filter down to our daughter when she has a loving committed father who would do anything for her and would actually still do anything for my ex should she need help.

I’m regards to your comment about the potential for me to be controlling I’m going to have to disagree. At no stage have I tried to control any aspect of her life, I’m sure if you knew the backstory you would see I am not controlling. However if still loving someone during that time and still more than happy to do anything for her is controlling them maybe I am guilty of that. In my view controlling is to try and control their lives, who they see, who they speak to, where they go, what they buy. I could not be further from that.

I simply want to have an input in my daughters life and more recently have had to try and fight fire with fire

In respect of the christening she is intent on inviting people who she claims are family friends. Her new partner will be there as well as her new partners family which I questioned, in a calm way and purely asked why. . When I questioned that I was told that if I say anything about them being there then she will refuse my parents.

I hope you can see that I have done nothing but show her how reliable I am, how committed I am to my daughter. Whether it be from giving more maintenance than needed to contributing to other aspects, showing an interest in everything to do with my daughter and wanting to always be there for her i think that shows that.

You don’t see it, do you?

Whatever you may think of her getting pregnant quickly (and you know what? I think she’s an irresponsible fool for it) - it is absolutely to be expected that she would invite her boyfriend, the father of the child she is expecting, effectively stepfather to her other two children, to their christening. And his family - effectively her in-laws.

Why would she not?

Why would you ask why?

If you had asked me why at that point, no matter how calmly, you wouldn’t have had a happy response from me!

So yes, there are two sides to every story. But that behaviour from me only reminds me of that. You’re not blameless here either.

Sort out your contact days.
Involve a solicitor if you need to.
Once your daughter is with you, take her wherever you like.
And DON’T question on why she is inviting her extended family, to a family event

*behaviour from you