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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Signs that a man will be a deadbeat dad

115 replies

Littlegemz · 02/06/2019 08:34

What signs did you have that your ExP, or in some cases P, would become a deadbeat dad?

For me i think these two should have been alarm bells:

Laziness
Lack of interest in his own family when there aren’t any issues, I.e. no phone calls, not visiting (especially brother and niece)

OP posts:
pallisers · 04/06/2019 01:12

My mother's advice (and she was born in the 1920s) still seems the best to me:

Don't marry a mean man
Don't marry a jealous man
Don't marry a man who can't laugh at himself.

What I'd add to that (and my mum made this clear to us too) is:

no man deserves you just because he wants you. You get to decide what you want in your life.

But if a woman ends up with a crap ex who is a crap dad I don't blame her - I blame the crap man.

managedmis · 04/06/2019 01:30

It aways seems like there's not many good men but a lot of decent women.

Women are more tenacious? Determined? Resilient? Who knows

Graphista · 04/06/2019 02:46

"Unfortunately, I had no warning at all. He was mostly a brilliant husband, with the occasional irritations everyone has. It was only when dd was born that every thing changed, I genuinely had not seen it coming at all."

This!

And even after dd was born it didn't start until around the time I'm fairly sure the affair started.

He completely changed, so much so his own family and close friends were genuinely thinking there was a medical reason for it.

We'd been married 10 years, together almost 13, so we'd hardly rushed into things either.

Although I do agree with:
"Never mind read this thread out at the altar...teach this stuff in high school."

Because although it wasn't my experience I've seen family and friends go through it from ignoring red flags plus of course plenty of threads on mn.

"My" OW though has defended his deadbeat actions to the hilt, but I hear the main reason she won't leave him despite his repeated cheating is because she doesn't want her kids (5) treated like he's treated dd!

I think my ex is a more rare type of deadbeat. Fine while you're together but when you split they don't bother with the kids either as if in their mind they've divorced the kids too. I've seen it with a few of my friends with absent fathers and also a couple other mums same as me, but I agree it's far less common and much harder to predict.

"daisypond

You'll only truly know that if you divorce." Agree with this.

Someone on another mn thread said

"You never really know what someone's like until you divorce them" and I think that's so true!

"That would never change." Famous last words, you have absolutely no idea how he'd be if you divorced.

My ex was very critical of deadbeat dads, was the child of a divorced dad but his dad had/has a lot of contact with the children from the first marriage and paid half the mortgage until the youngest was 18 and paid a decent amount of cm without being made to. He had a huge falling out with a friend who was dodging cm, we had many discussions where he stated he'd never behave like that and couldn't understand those that did.

Within DAYS of me kicking him out he'd emptied the joint account without telling me, took the family car without telling (leaving me pretty stranded & skint with a pre-schooler!), took the computer without telling me.

He then spent the next almost 16 years doing all he could to avoid paying cm.

Was hours late sometimes not showing at all despite texting/calling saying he was on his way for contact, turned up pissed/hungover (hadn't been a big drinker previously) and smelly for contact. Would return dd early and kick off if I wasn't home...

Seriously you don't know until you split.

"Yep. Don't even date 'em! TONS of 'We agreed he'd stop smoking/drinking/using weed/gaming till 4am when I got pregnant'. Don't get pregnant to a loser like this! Get an abortion! But do not expect him to change because he won't." Yep - at the very least insist on the change occurring BEFORE ttc!

Personally as the child of an alcoholic and with a family full of addicts I've never dated anyone who was a big drinker, has ANYTHING to do with street drugs, only dated one smoker and that didn't last long, never dated a gambler never would!

I don't understand why people would. You're on a hiding to nothing straight off!

My ex was a very involved hands on dad too, before the affair

"I wouldn't take low contact or no contact as necessarily a red flag" depends on the reason.

If they're toxic nightmares maybe not but if its just out of laziness/lack of motivation yes.

"The biggest sign of a potential dead beat is that he hasn't actually taken the step of marrying you" I TOTALLY agree with this! So so many threads on here by women bemoaning the lack of a proposal and as the thread goes on it becomes blatantly obvious the guy is a selfish, worthless piece of shit only looking out for themselves. Sadly I'm too many cases there are already children in the mess!

Those of us that say "get married before children" are too often flamed for being old fashioned etc when the reality is its a damn good test of a man and how he feels about you!!

"He's just going along with creating a pregnancy (easy)" I suspect the deadbeat types don't even think that far ahead! I think they just think "great! No condoms"

Manclife why did you wait so long to give her and your children the security and legal protection of marriage?

NunoGoncalves · 04/06/2019 03:03

Anything that makes him a bad partner will likely make him a bad father, surely? I wouldn't want to have kids with someone who was selfish, mean, lazy, short-tempered, drank too much, lacked ambition, etc. etc. but I'd never go out with/marry somebody with those traits in the first place!

IAmAlwaysLikeThis · 04/06/2019 03:14

Unreliable - not calling when they say they will, not being where they say they are.

Not interested in your opinions or interests.

Can't discuss things sensibly - everything's a joke or has to be discussed later or they get the hump easily.

Happy to talk about stuff in romantic terms - how cute your kids would be, what names they'd have, what clothes they'd wear - nothing about practical matters, time, money etc

Yes to not tidying - he's not gonna magically start once a baby is there.

You can see the same patterns over and over. Not sure why anyone would marry and procreate with these men but the will to reproduce is strong, I guess.

Littlegemz · 04/06/2019 09:54

The getting married before having kids I never thought would be one, but now, especially as I had vocally expressed my wishes to get married early in the relationship, glad we didn’t now. Just proved his lack of commitment to me. Even after I got pregnant I asked him if he saw me as a life partner and his response was along the lines of no not really.. but he had thought someday we would have kids Hmm.

The lack of empathy should have been a big one for me. Watching real life shows and him laughing at others misfortunes or if people were crying, saying it was gay. Talk about emotionally unintelligent.

OP posts:
Manclife1 · 04/06/2019 11:54

Lack of commitment is wholly different to it being married. That’s not wanting to get married as opposed to being happy to but priorities taking over.

SignedUpJust4This · 04/06/2019 14:10

The marriage thing is true. Whilst it's great that women are not judged and persecuted for getting pregnant outside marriage I do think this is a double edged sword for women. There are so many deadbeat dad's going on to father more and more children with unsuspecting women who end up much worse off financially for raising children outside of marriage. At least if these losers were married they wouldnt be able to move onto the next victim so easily and their wife might have more financial protection.

coldwarenigma · 04/06/2019 16:05

No offence but you only have to read some of the threads to realise it doesn’t matter how clear the warning signs are people ignore them. Then they get angry when their partner doesn’t change when a kid turns up. If find it impossible to believe you could share a bed with someone for years and not know they’re a knob.

Exactly...having spent time on here reading some of the issues women have with men I am usually amazed they ever thought they were getting The Waltons family life when it clearly would never be like that but pointing it out on here you get screams of 'victim blaming' ...when actually there are a lot of women who need to accept responsibility for their life decisions. If the need to blame someone they need to blame their own parents for bringing them up with such low standards/expectations. The deadbeats are usually like it beforehand...healthy people don't have personality transplants and become arseholes for no reason and out the blue. The deadbeats are also sons...think about it...

bingomingo · 04/06/2019 17:32

3+ kids by 3+ different women

SignedUpJust4This · 04/06/2019 17:35

There seems to be a fairy tale out there that a rotten man will change 'for the right woman' surely due to the strength of her love and a woman that loves against all odds is almost seen as heroic. Men are not expected to put up with the same level of shit that women are. Beauty & the beast, Princess & the frog etc.

Better to have no partner than a shit one I think.

JessieTalamasca · 04/06/2019 17:54

Exactly, cold. You see it all the time. It's always a 'D'P who has multiple kids by multiple women and the OP is pregnant or has several kids with him and he's been a cunt and shown signs of cuntery for years.

Graphista · 04/06/2019 19:39

Cold while that's true where there's clear red flags, how do you explain mine and the other pp who's husband/partner changed for the worse AFTER the child was born?

And as I think I said in previous post I've seen this happen to a few others and read of a few cases on here.

I agree it's more rare and most of the time there are clear red flags that either the mother/prospective mother ignores or they employ wishful thinking that the man will suddenly and miraculously mature into a thoughtful, caring and engaged person as soon as baby born!

It's not only on threads where the children are already here where myself and others query what the poster was thinking in having a child/children with someone who THEY themselves describe as always being lazy, thoughtless, selfish etc where we get flamed for "victim blaming"

Even on threads where posters are bemoaning a lack of proposal, are saying they're wanting to ttc but he's not keen and again they're already indicating that he's lazy/thoughtless etc and myself and others say "you'd be mad to tie yourself to this guy" we get flamed for being too quick to jump in with ltb, too pessimistic and critical.

I can't of course speak for other posters, but certainly for myself my aim in saying to these posters isn't some sadistic delight in splitting a couple up but because I am a single mum with a deadbeat ex I don't want others having to go through that unnecessarily.

Also as a generality (and there's other posters who seem to have similar views to me on this) I have also very much observed that men below a certain age (I'd say 50) are pretty poorly behaved in terms of being partners/husbands these days.

Another frequent post - which is kind of the precursor of the "deadbeat dad" posts - is the "lazy husband/partner who expects me to do all the housework and childcare and mental load AND work full time" ones where a common response is something like "send him back to the 1950's"

What seems not to be understood/has been forgotten is that back when households/marriages were run on old fashioned, sexist models of division of labour the point was it WAS divided.

My father, uncles and grandfathers were/are "traditional" types BUT while that did/does mean their families/marriages tend/tended to run with Labour divided along sex based lines they didn't do NOTHING!!

Men now seem to want (and too often get!) the best of both worlds, a wife/partner that works full time and contributes financially but who still does everything that would have traditionally fallen under a wife's purview if they were sahm. But also even when the sahm was a more common occurrence they didn't come home from work and do absolutely nothing at all!

In older generations the wives still didn't do EVERYTHING, generally the men did much if not all of the household admin particularly legal and financial admin, excepting matters particularly relating to school/children.

They did the "heavy" household jobs, car, house and garden maintenance, decorating and so on (And these were more often needing done then, modern homes often don't require much)

There's also an incorrect perception that men of older generations had no input in child rearing at all, whereas certainly my experience - and from talking to friends it's the same in their families too - is that wasn't the case.

They perhaps didn't do so much night wakings and baby care but they certainly were involved with older children, teaching them swimming, cycling, practical household skills, about nature, helping with homework...

Why are we (as a society) letting men be so bloody lazy?!

And it starts with how they're raised

I wonder if partly it's to do with the first "wave" of single mums sons grew up obviously seeing their mums do everything (because they had to there wasn't anyone else) and thinking they don't need to women are capable of doing it all.

But yes I've also observed far too many parents/mums who unfortunately spoil sons but expect daughters to be trained to be independent and capable.

I've seen it with family and friends and I've queried it where possible/very obviously odd expectations were applied in households where there were both female and male children being raised and the girls expected to "help" whereas the boys weren't expected to - I've heard excuses like

"oh no he's rubbish at X it's easier if I/daughter does it" - well he's not going to improve without practice is he?!

"He needs to focus on schoolwork" - and the dd doesn't?!

"He'll only moan" - then discipline him and don't stand for it!

"By the time I've nagged him into doing it I could have done it" - again discipline!

"He's too busy with his hobby" - a hobby is what you do when you have spare time not instead of your responsibilities (how many posts are there about husbands spending too much time on hobbies?!) he needs to learn responsibilities first then hobby, plus why shouldn't dd have same amount of free time?

It HAS to be that boys are raised to be decent MEN as an active decision. Seems to me too many parents think this will happen without them doing anything. And it applies to much worse behaviour than laziness too!

Youwantshoesinashoeshop · 04/06/2019 19:41

@pallisers your mum sounds absolutely brilliant.

The not being able to laugh at yourself and meanness things are absolutely bang on.

PicsInRed · 04/06/2019 19:57

Graphista, totally agree younger men are horrifying - though I noticed that similar aged men who had access to computers were highly disrespectful in a way that those who didn't were not. Read between the lines and you understand my meaning. The men from poorer backgrounds (so no P.C. at 10 years old) were so, so much more pleasant to date - even when they weren't up to much, overall! The men I dated who had constant early age access to a computers were, compared to their less well off brothers, just straight up weird.

I truly believe it's porn.
I believe that the boys who had very early access to computers gained early access to porn and it twisted their opinons of women.
Unfortunately, that's now most young men.
I believe that this new extreme porn, in huge quantities, at a young age, creates contempt for women in our young men.
That's what we are seeing en mass in young men - now young Dads - today.
It is a complete tragedy.

Manclife1 · 04/06/2019 20:36

@PicsInRed except more fathers are involved in their child’s upbringing than ever before. There were plenty of shit dads before there was easy access to internet porn so your argument doesn’t hold water.

Graphista · 04/06/2019 21:17

except more fathers are involved in their child’s upbringing than ever before.

Have you evidence of that?! Because it's certainly not what I'm seeing!

There were plenty of shit dads before there was easy access to internet porn so your argument doesn’t hold water.

How?! It's one aspect one factor that could very well explain poor attitudes to girls and women.

I'm on another thread at mo/recently discussing rape. We have men LITERALLY getting away with murder cos "rough sex gone wrong m'lud"

Misogyny is a MASSIVE problem at the moment.

It may be more subtle than in certain past examples but I would say it's more widespread.

Graphista · 04/06/2019 21:18

And I meant to ask earlier

"That’s not wanting to get married as opposed to being happy to but priorities taking over." What priorities?

Graphista · 04/06/2019 21:27

In 2014 there were 2 million lone parents the vast majority are women. - 1 in 4 families

There were 1 million in 1991. - I in 7 families

And I suspect in 1991 there was still a good many babies born to unwed mothers being given up for adoption as it was still a huge stigma then - I attended 2 shotgun weddings myself that year!

So how does that translate to more fathers being involved in their children's upbringing?

And define "involved" too because simply living at the same address doesn't necessarily mean "involved" I read a recent thread where the father worked crazy hours not out of need but his own choice and he was spending less than 10 mins a day with his kids 6 days a week!

Supersimpkin · 04/06/2019 21:49

Men who:

  • move in with you straight from their family home
  • don't know how to pay a bill
  • are endlessly unsure about committing to you, but get hysterical if you look at someone fit on the bus
  • won't marry you (yes - this is because unwed couples split waaay more than married ones when DC roll up)
  • rude about ex
  • jealous of DC - hey, they're the adorable baby round these parts.
PrawnoftheShed · 04/06/2019 22:06

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

leckford · 04/06/2019 22:11

Mean or too spendthrift
Football obsessive = goes to all matches including abroad
Gaming
Betting
Worst of all - drugs of any kind

madcatladyforever · 04/06/2019 22:18

"Taking a back-seat in all social interactions".

God yes this BlueMerchant! Every social occasion that didn't involve his current hobby for the 17 years we were together. People say to me now they only came to see me because he had nothing to say for himself and made them feel awkward.

Graphista · 04/06/2019 23:06

Prawnoftheshed no flaming from me, I understand the frustration and feel it myself often.

With abusive relationships though it's incredibly complicated as usually the abuser has the victim absolutely convinced they'll change, or that they couldn't cope without the abuser, or that the abuser would get custody etc

I'm the child of an abusive relationship so I've seen it close up and I still struggle to get my head round it.

My father swore if mum left and took us he'd track her down and kill all of us and she believed him and frankly I understand why! Because I believe he would have done his damnedest to do so!

Equally there were times where her family tried to intervene and prevent her from returning to him after visits to them without him - I'm talking physically stop her from leaving - and she still went back and took us with her! That's caused some heated discussion as we know her siblings would have taken us in even if she insisted on going back to him.

Parents married almost 50 years, mum will never leave him pointless me even discussing with her.

I had one boyfriend hit me once! I hit him back and left, dumped his arse and when people asked why told the truth. But...I wasn't trapped in marriage and parenthood with him, we were only living together.

Littlegemz · 04/06/2019 23:12

@Prawn, for me this post is all about what to avoid in future. Things started out so well but somewhere along the line he became disrespectful/abusive and just an absolute tosser and I allowed that, whether it was believing his false promises or been blindsided by the fact that I really did love him (well the fake him that he initially showed me, not the real him). Just so happens that from this came such a beautiful happy little girl who I couldn’t imagine my life without. But I want to educate myself, be more vigilant and im even doing the freedom programme to help me.

Getting pregnant again isn’t an option for me, heck I need to have sex in order for that to happen. But seriously I’ll be damned if I bring another one of his children into this world for him to treat as poorly as he has done DD, how he has treated me made me dislike him but how he has been to DD truly makes me hate him.

OP posts: