Would you wait for an engagement? Am I being silly?

[Roseyflowers]

I really need some advice. I feel like I'm waiting for a proposal that will never happen. We've even argued about this and he always says he's 'thinking about it' I am not confident he means it. He knows I want kids but he says we need to get married first. I am 36, I am getting down about it. He says just enjoy what we have now but I can't. He is still upset about how his last relationship ended four years ago!!!

Should I just accept he'll do it in his own time?
Thanks.

Getting engaged counts for nothing. Forget that. If he says hell get engaged you'll be engaged for ever more with no marriage.

My DP has a friend who’s then girlfriend kept taking about marriage. They’d been together over 3 years and I remember thinking 3 years would be my absolute cut off. He breaks up with then girlfriend and meets someone 6 months later and got married 18 months later. He couldn’t put his finger on why he didn’t marry the first girl other than HE knew he wanted to marry the next one pretty much from the beginning. As everyone who struggles to conceive will tell you don’t waste anymore time. At 36 you could have 6 babies but if it takes you 6 years to conceive 1 then your time is very limited indeed. That said don’t settle for just anything- plenty of sperm banks out there.

I have this awful feeling that he will accept it and not fight OR he'll say we will get engaged but in the near future.

If he accepts it then you know for sure and don't waste any more of your life on him. If not then you don't want an engagement. You want to know if he wants to marry you and have children. If so you need to make arrangements to get married. There is no point in 'getting engaged' as an end in itself, that's just an opportunity for further procrastination. It's not urgent for him but it is for you, and if he can't see that then that tells you all you need to know. Just tell him what you want.

Rosey, I actually think you should dump this amiable clot and look for better husband and father material, but if you are certain you want to try one last ultimatum, settle for nothing less than wedding this summer, booked and paid for. If he prevaricates in any way, e.g. but babe, I want a big white church wedding so let's save up and do it next year, walk.

yes, i do see that, thank you.

Do you really want to get engaged because of an ultimatum? Is that how you'll set a wedding date? And decide to start trying for kids? You need to decide what you want. Big picture what's the most important thing? If it's being a mum then you can do that for you. If you end up forcing him down the isle and get pregnant you could still end up doing it alone or with someone who isn't mature enough. On the other hand you could decide that you are a kick ass, strong woman and start looking at your options to become a mum yourself. There are children waiting for adoptive parents maybe you get your family that way. I know it's easy to say though. I hope things turn out well no matter what you decide to do.

Wow 2 cheaters miserable together...shame.

There goes my sympathy.

I'm wondering if he actually left her or if she found out some other way and binned him and actually if she had not found out he'd still be with her. Something you may also be wondering.

Sounds to me he never viewed you as a long term serious prospect.

Cut your losses raise your standards (both your own morals and standard of partner) and move on.

he is very dismissive and says he doesn't want any input and wants to decide it himself

For this alone, I would bin him off. Imagine trying to raise a family with someone with that attitude.

he's really strung me along when he's so nice, kind and seems just clueless.

I am sorry to say that there are a lot like this out there. It's a great disguise for selfishness

You can do so much better. I would encourage you to look amongst those who are not already in a relationship and still 'looking out'.

The way you know this is, In the unlikely event that the love of your life is already in a relationship when you meet him, is that his first action would be to end the relationship he is already in before getting closer to you. Not hanging on to decide which partner to pick.

Do you see how it looks from his position?

You quite rightly ended your relationship and then were prepared to hang around for him to decide what to do

And here you are still, hanging around waiting for him.

It's such a cliche, but true, you only get one chance at life. Stop hanging around for him.

No big ultimatum that he can ignore. Just get yourself together and leave him. If he realises what he has lost, he will soon come running after you.

But .. what's the betting he already has someone else lined up. It's how he works.

I'm sorry, but think of it as a motivator to do what you want, no more hanging around.

Yep, I do understand and see this. I put all my eggs in one basket and when real life caught up the relationship wasn't what I thought it would be. I do find him very immature and yes I see I deserve it.
Because i've invested so much I want to keep it going, almost prove it was worth it.
But I am going to end it especially after all the input from mumsnet.

Good news @Roseyflowers

The sunken cost fallacy is a 'thing'

https://www.psychologicalscience.org/news/the-sunk-cost-fallacy-is-ruining-your-decisions-heres-how.html

Don't beat yourself up for making a mistake, it's very human and shows you in a good light. Now you can be glad you spotted it and did something about it.

He sounds the type that if you split from him now because he doesn’t want to get married he would have met and married someone else within the following year, despitvthe flannel he’s telling you now.

I think he just doesn’t want to marry you - sorry.

Do not wait. You are 36, just ready the boards with people over 40 desperate to conceive.
I waited. I got with him when I was 30, he dumped me aged 38. He promised kids and marriage, but the time was "not right"
I'm now 40 and looking at trying to conceive as a single mum.
Dont waste your time on him.

FinallyHere thank you I just needed to hear that. There are some brutal messages on here, so I just needed a kind word.

MrMeeseekscando so sorry to hear that. Sounds like this could be me.

I really can't understand how some men do this? The thought of stringing someone along is mind boggling.

Op, if you can go from wishing to spend the rest of your life with this man to wanting to bin him then I think he was right in not wishing to commit to marriage at this stage.

Bluntness100 i am not fickle and I don't wish to 'bin him'. If it was that simple I wouldn't have poured my worries and upset out on a forum.
I don't understand why some ppl come here just to slate the OP?

The whole point is I don't want to end it but I am heart broken. I didn't anticipate that there would be an over whelming consensus that this will not end well and he is stringing me along. This is a horrible wake up call for me! I wasn't expecting the messages to be so clear cut.
This is not easy but I thought that would be obvious in my thread.

I feel bad for my blunt reply but I really regret losing all those fertile years whilst believing it would happen.
He really did string me along and I'd hate for it to happen to you too.
You only get one shot at life.

Sorry to hear that, not blunt just truthful. It's the messages which are there making you feel awful for the sake of it which i don't get.

It's that awful catch 22/sunk fallacy. If I stay I have invested so much and there is hope (not really) it might happen. If I leave it will be painful because I do love this man. I know what I have to do, just really shitty.

I've gt two friends i can think of who have been with their partner for 7 and 10 years respectively. The first one not even engaged the second one she gave him an ultimatum so he proposed ....he never wanted kids, at least he was honest but I know she desperately wanted them ....i don't want to force a man in to marriage.

OP you're not being unreasonable at all in feeling this way, and ignore the posters being antagonistic. I've been in your shoes and it's horrible, in the end I did hang in there and he left me anyway as he wasn't committed. I wish I'd paid attention to the signs before it got to that point.

The right man will make it clear that he loves you and wants to build a life with you - this has been the experience of quite a few of us on here, after spending several years with these commitment-phobes.

Sakura7 tHank you so much.

I wasn't looking for sympathy but some of the posters are just being horrible for the sake of it, maybe they get a kick out of it.

I know what I need to do regardless of how horrible it's going to be ....just crap knowing that he isn't as invested as me.

Start by looking for a flat or a place to live with a friend (if one happens to conveniently be looking for a roommate!) -- taking action will change your mood from powerless and hurt, to.. well, not exactly joyful and radiant, but a bit more positive.

Marriage is about more than just getting down the aisle. If he's already reluctant to do fun things like go on holiday, then he'd be a lame husband! Can you really imagine standing with a gun to his head while you force him to flip through holiday brochures?!

This will all be ok. It might be that you leaving him will give him the epiphany he needs to realise that you're the one, and he'll come banging your (new) door down with a ring.

But even if he did, he'll still be the same man. I wouldn't recommend a marriage to someone that you feel you're having to push into every big step; my first marriage was to someone like that and it gets sooo old.

Whatever happens, you'll be ok. You're only in your 30s. You have your own lovely life. Other men are available. It'll be ok.

Hi OP it sounds like a difficult situation for you and don't pay attention to those who are being negative or antagonistic, you came here for advice.
Just giving my experience, DH and I were the other way round. We met, he was in an on off relationship, I was single. He decided the day he met me that I was the one that he wanted to marry, I thought he was an absolute moron. His relationship ended and we became friends and then entered a relationship about a year afterwards. He was soooo sure about marriage, I wasn't to begin with, but the longer the relationship went on, I realised he was definitely the one for me but I wanted to wait a bit longer before we commited to marriage. We would not have children out of wedlock, I was fully aware of my age. We sat and spoke about our relationship, he said he didn't want to force me into making a decision and would leave it in my hands. I'm not sure what happened but one day I just woke up and decided yes, we got married just before I turned 35 and now at 37 expecting our first child. I love him that ever much more for just being patient with me and valued the fact that we sat and spoke about the whole situation, I think my personality would have led me to have a negative view of an ultimatum.

I really can't understand how some men do this? The thought of stringing someone along is mind boggling.

Don't be naive.

Look at it from his perspective - he's told you he's got issues with how his relationship ended 4 years ago, he hasn't proposed you but you still moved in with him. It looks to him like you are quite prepared to carry on as you are without a proposal and he's not wrong.

He gets what he wants - sex, companionship and a partner who loves him with no need to offer any kind of commitment.

There is no option here if you are 36 and want children. You need to be clear and follow through.

I wouldn't even bother with an ultimatum myself as its clear he doesn't want this.

I'd go for the direct approach and say you've made your position clear that you want to get married, he has not proposed in the many years you've been together and you obviously want different things, the relationship is over and you are moving out. And do that.

If you want to do an ultimatum, given where you are you are going to need an engagement and to set a date now because otherwise you may find you get engaged(another aspect of stringing you along) but get into a cycle of postponing the wedding for a myriad of reasons, when we've saved up, when my brother is back from Australia, when Aunty Joan has finished her chemo.

You've realy left it a bit late for an ultimatum. When you moved in you should have said (more elegantly and more subtly but with the core message), it's your timetable and you can choose as and when but if you haven't proposed to me by the end of 18 months/a year I will assume you have no intention of doing so and I will end this relationship because this is important to me.

I think my personality would have led me to have a negative view of an ultimatum.

@64632K

So what? All that would have meant was that you ended up alone and your partner went off to meet someone else who was more certain about him.

You were in the same position as OP's partner - you knew your partner wanted to marry you so you got to string them along as you saw fit. As it happened you say I'm not sure what happened but one day I just woke up and decided yes, we got married just before I turned 35 and now at 37 expecting our first child.
It's equally possible you'd have never had that moment and sacked off your now husband.

Your experience does nothing to show it is a good idea for OP to stay in this relationship at all. If anything its the opposite because it demonstrates how the partner who cares less is totally in control and if they don't want to get married they just won't.

Hi OP,

First thing is first, as soon as you let on how you got together you were goi g to get flamed regardless of the topic. It is what it is and in the past.

You seem to be focusing on the marriage, is that is what is most important to you? Marriage is something you can do at any age 36, 46 hell 86! Absolutely no rush.

However, if being a mum is something that you truly want in life you can't mess about and need to start immediately, I'm sorry to be blunt but your fertility is already in decline and you have absolutely no idea of any potential underlying issues. NHS won't investigate until you have been trying for quite some time. Have you put any thought into how many children you would like? This should also factor into your timeline. I'm afraid at 36 you are on a schedule when it comes to fertility.

If I were in your shoes I would give it one last big conversation with him. Lay out what you want e.g I would like 2 children and my fertility is already declining, it could take 2 years to conceive DC1 and we have no idea what hurdles we may face. For a second realistically I would like a gap of (18/24 months etc) and by then I will be trying to at 40 which is difficult, you would be an older father too - 52/53 by the time DC2 starts high school.
This is something I am not willing to compromise on. Therefore I would like to start trying for a baby by (next month, Christmas etc). And I am coming off the pill (or whatever contraception you are using) to get my body in a natural cycle.
Ask if it is something he wants do be a part of and how he is going to take an active roll (get fitter, stop drinking, smoking etc).
If not you have to leave.

If it is vitally important to you to get married first then factor that into to timescale. Remember if you want the big wedding it's bloody expensive and normally booked 1-2 years in advance so that may already not be an option for you both to squeeze in before ttc. Personally I would be booking the wedding in before Christmas or leaving it till after DC are born.

Fertility and age is not something to fuck about with, there is no going back. If it is something you really want in life you have to make the decision on what you are doing now.

Best of luck OP, don't live the rest of your life in regret because you let some guy string you along

"The translation of this is: I'm not convinced. I'm just waiting to see if anyone better comes along because I still want to have sex with someone in the meantime."

^^ exactly that.

He won't suddenly "see the light" I'm afraid. You're convenient for him but he has no intention of progressing to marriage and children with you in the near future.