Nipples in public!

[Mydoghasbettereyebrowsthanme]

Hi all - NC for fresh perspective! Will keep brief ...out for a lovely bank holiday walkwith DH and DC and i am wearing a black bra, black spaghetti - style vest top and then a cotton loose vest over that and a black cardigan which has no buttons asbits a wrap style.Fresh sea breeze has the obvious effect on my nipples- DH has asked me to cover them up by holding cardi wrapped up as he is offended and upset when men ( generically) look at them. He says men will look and have eexual thoughts and it upsets him . I got a little annoyed as it had not even occured to me - i am a plump middle aged woman and am completely invisible most of the time. I said its not down to me to be responsible for other people bit he said i should not deliberately upset him . Who is being u here ? Help !

yes he does have control issues - worse in the past , better now.

Worse than this? Worse than telling you what to wear, making you responsible for the imagined lustful thoughts of other men, and outright telling you to do as you are told? I think that must be why you needed confirmation from MN that YANBU.

Cross-post OP. Fair enough, I can understand not wanting to LTB for this one incident. However hard it must be to respect him when he shows his core beliefs like this.

Do take care though. When we begin to resist one form of control, abusers often turn to another tactic.

Well the knicker analogy would mean that your bra would be on show.
Your bra wasn't on show.
Does he expect you to never show the curve of your arse?
Or the curve or your waist?
Or your thighs?

You were wearing black ffs! Several layers. Is he often like this? What do you like about being in a relationship with him?

OP I don't know the age or sex of your DC but if you have a DD, how do you feel about your DH saying these things to them?

That actually would give me cause to consider LingTB to be honest. It's not the kind of attitudes we want to show or the other lessons we should be teaching our DC.

He says men will look and have sexual thoughts
He's telling you what he does when he looks at other women.

he told me about a time when he was talking to a couple of friends (who were together at the time ) when her boyfriend realised the silhouette of her nipple was prominent and when her bf tactfully pointed it out she was grateful he had
Bullshit. He's made this up to try and validate his controlling behaviour.
Even if it were true - that is a different person and she might have an issue with it.
You are you own person and have no issue with it.

He says that in the real world these things are a fact of life and feminism does not exist in the real world
Patronising twat!
He's saying you don't know how the real world works and are easily influenced by others....oh and that you are not woman enough to know what it feels like being a woman in a patriarchal world/society.
Therefore - you should do as he says because he is the big I AM and knows better than you....

although i feel strongly about it this row has dragged on and on and i think its just going to get dragged under the carpet for the sanity of the house
That's what's kept you trapped in this toxic relationship.
Is this what you really want for the rest of your life - to be constantly fighting against his controlling nature and putting up with his abusive ways?
Is this what you want your kids to believe is a normal, healthy, functional relationship is like?

Seriously - give your head a wobble and get rid of this woman-hating wanker.

Op I am seriously overweight but my dh loves me the way I am. If I chose to go out in a string bikini he would support me - he would privately think me crackers but wouldn't ever tell me what to do.. You sound lovely and perhaps you have spent a long time accepting his demands for behaviours he deems acceptable?? I have never been in an oppressive relationship but it sounds like you are and I really hope you will seek help.

Also your dog is gorgeous - dogs are often better than people imho x

"Why do i value this 'ridiculous'feminist idea over respect for my husband and being mindful of how horrible feeling jealous is?"

So basically, He means "why are you not adapting your behaviour and ignoring your own beliefs to minimise my anger and pander to my jealousy?"

It's just a more articulate way of saying "do as you're told"

I'd say "why do you value random men's thoughts and to prioritise your jealously above my right to bodily autonomy"

He says that in the real world these things are a fact of life and feminism does not exist in the real world. He suspects most men think the same.

People tent to gravitate and have friends with similar views so it would explain why he thinks most men are sexist pricks like himself.

As long as there men like your husband who can't control their sexual thoughts around women who are cold and expect women to alter their behaviour, feminism very much does exist and it's men like your husband who show that even in 2019 it's still needed.

And the four men I know who were open about saying feminism doesn't exist and/or not needed were sexist arseholes in other ways. My dad, my brother, my fil and my second stepdad. All lovely and nice to women until they had they expected to be allowed to think differently or dress differently or get "funny ideas" such as earning their own money for example.

Sorry OP but your husband is seriously sexist. "Feminism doesn't exist in the real world" would be it for me tbh, although I understand you don't want to LTB. A bit of gradual education that the "real world" he's talking about got left behind decades ago might be in order though...

Do you have 2 or 3 friends you could confide in, who would be content to turn up on a social visit to you, all braless when he was about?

If I was a friend, I’d do that for you.

I’ve had a mastectomy and the reconstruction is as smooth as a bowling ball, maybe something he’d like you to consider OP?

How did you end up married to such a boorish twat ?

I'm old. Have I accidentally clicked on a script from a 70s sitcom. How old is your dh?

Hi apologies - bit waylaid today. Am at work and minding my nipples as uts a bit blowy out there but seriously , thank you for you brillinat and insightful thoughts it goes deeper this issue doesnt it ? I am 41 ,he is 42 and i promise we havent time-hopped from the 70s bellini! And billywilliam - you are a warrior and perhaps that would make him think - it bloody should do ! starlightlady - fab idea ... really think he would descend into a meltdown !! bossypurples upu make a very good argument holding a mirror up - i think i will definitely think about those responses .furrydogmum - you get it ! I do love my dog more than dh at the moment to be honest xx things are still strained at home , various other things going on but i actially dont want to go home today- the whole affair is gribding me down ! Anyway , thanks to you all for taking the time to comment and post xxxx

I must say I did think you both must be older OP, his attitude does suggest a different generation! I am 37 and can't imagine that perspective among the men I know. I think this does say quite a lot about his beliefs regarding women and the male-female dynamic, certainly.

On the other hand the fact that he is only early 40s should mean he is more open to changing those views, hopefully 🤞🤞 I hope you manage to sort it out

Yes leomama - he was brought up in a very conservative christian family so that does explain some of it i think. You re right , we are hopefully young enough to work on it x i though about showing him the amazing thoughtful and intelligent points on this thread but i suspect he would be very defensive and hurt of course . So i am going to integrate the excellent views into daily conversation and pass them off as my own ! Hopefully its a good plan. I will make a feminist of him yet

I'm sure you can! Good luck x

IMO, men who dismiss Mumsnet ("its a load of old man hating harpies" "they've got an agenda "I bet half of them are lesbians" etc) and feminism as a whole, actually just don't like or respect women all that much. They don't credit them with intelligence or informed opinions and they just simply think women are a bit inferior, really.

Clearly your DH is in this camp. You're (understandably and bravely) making light of this (and a lot of posters have responded in the same vein) but I don't think you are as light hearted as you sound. Feeling ground down by this on top of other stuff and not wanting to go home...

Maybe it would be worth starting a new thread about your relationship as a whole, and your DH's attitude towards you. You are 41. You're too young to live the rest of your life with someone that makes you unhappy, or someone who doesn't respect you or value you. His attitude to your appearance in public is just one manifestation of how he thinks you should behave how he tells (literally - tells!) you to behave. He doesn't really seem to care if you feel sad or unheard, which isn't the action of a loving partner.

I also think men like this are not good role models for DC. Do you want a DS growing up and treating his girlfriend/wife like this and saying these things to her and that they should do as he tells them? Do you want a DD to think it's normal for men to treat her in this way and she should cover up because a man told her to (assuming DC are heterosexual Ofc ).

This is the very reason men like your DH hate and fear MN and feel defensive, because their shitty attitudes and behaviour are exposed as not the norm and women are encouraged to expect better and be treated like equals and not possessions or misbehaving children.

PS I'm not a man hater with an agenda, I have a DH and DSs who I love very much, that's exactly why I expect men to behave better than your DH does, towards you.

WeBuiltCisCityOnSexistRoles - just wanted to say what a thoughtful read your post was - thank you so much for taking the time to comment. You have hit nail on the head - this was a slightly lighthearted thread to just canvas opinions but 'nipplegate'has exposed a crack in my marriage and i must admit it did get me thinking from a fresh perspective. I am a lityle afeared of starting a thread about it as its all a bit much but i do value all the input people have posted . Thank yoi so much , i really appreciate it