DD has been accused of sexual assault!

[Vasilisa19]

20 years old, second year at Uni, a group of friends were drunk in a nightclub. Everyone in the group was kissing each other - silly student stuff. She had a drunken snog with a few people including girl who now says she has been sexually assaulted because she was too drunk to give consent.

The girl has said she hasn't made up her mind as to whether she is going to report her to the police. It was 3 days before this girl spoke up and had previously said what a good night it was. My dd is terrified and has now said she is leaving uni for good. I want her to go and talk to someone at the uni but she won't as she is scared. She thinks the police are going to turn up at any moment. I feel sick.

Guava rubicon isn’t alcohol 😂

What truth?
That your friend was drunk and unable to give consent?

PP said they weren't drinking alcohol.

Explain to the stupid girl that’s regret, not assault.

How utterly vile.

You’re going by your daughters, presumably biased and drunken account OP.
Support her, maybe speak to uni services but I’d imagine the other girls account is wildly different if she’s thinking about going to the police!
If she feels she was assaulted then I hopefully she takes it further and you can all get a clearer picture of what happened and lessons can be learnt accordingly.

This thread is mad

some of the batshit things that people have come out with

Some very interesting posts on here.

I have a feeling they may be less judgemental of the other girl had your DD been born with a penis 🤔

@thedancingbear

The more you post, the more bonkers you sound.

"I'm really not. If the OP was posting that her son was being done for copping off with a paralytic girl in a nightclub, people would (rightly) be saying, at least, that you need to have a conversation about consent. There wouldn't be all this shit about 'well it took her three days to report it', 'she's clearly changed her mind', 'how many other men did she pull' etc.

But you've just made all that stuff up as that is not what this thread is about.
Meanwhile, the rest of us are trying to support the OP.

You know, the person posting here asking for advice.

Is it really that difficult to stick to the current scenario or are you desperate to make this all about you? If so, why not post your own thread?

I would imagine that most of us had many drunken snogs when we were in our teenage years. I've never heard the term ' too drunk to consent' used for kissing, only for sexual acts or sex....and I bloody hope it never is.

I'm sure we have all seen women in terrible states drunk in clubs, that everyone can tell instantly they are completely plastered, in that case yeah if I saw a man or woman trying to kiss them I would consider it to be too drunk to consent anyway and would think that the person trying was dodgy as f**k....but in a situation where people are walking around, dancing, chatting, having fun and not noticeably completely wasted I don't agree with people using the too drunk to consent line for kisses. Someone forcing a kiss on someone else, obviously that's different, but if it seems like they are willing at the time then it's not one bit fair on the person they were accusing! How would they know the other person was only kissing them back because they were drunk?

So she snogged someone who possibly wasn’t capable of consenting and cheated on her boyfriend, not the actions of someone who is in a good place/with secure boundaries.

She may benefit from some time away from uni.

What a challenging thread!!!

Let's assume it was a boy who was in a group of friends who were snogging each other. Publicly, in a group, and there was no indictation that the girl objected. Was there any reasonable grounds for the boy in question to assume she was not consenting?

Cases that have been successfully proven in court? She was conscious and at the time, gave no indication that she was not a willing participant.

With a lawyer hat on.... there is no case to answer. (I am not a lawyer...)

Ok. I talked to her boyfriend (who was there) and has corroborated DDs story. He also says the group (both male and female) have also backed up her story that they were both a bit drunk but not paralytic and it was a very brief and mutual kiss to which they were giggling about after.

DD believes another housemate (who wasn't there) has been doing some shit stirring and getting the girl wound up about it. Obviously I don't know this to be fact but she has history of causing trouble between them.

Let's assume it was a boy who was in a group of friends who were snogging each other. Publicly, in a group, and there was no indictation that the girl objected. Was there any reasonable grounds for the boy in question to assume she was not consenting?

So the man can assume consent if the woman doesn't say no?

Give me strength.

I wouldn’t worry about this - seems like there’s enough evidence for a reasonable belief in consent. Can’t imagine any action being taken.

Playmytune Rubicon a fruit flavour soft drink. Jesus wept.

But my gut feeling is a back story of her deciding she doesn't want to houseshare with her next year (though a contract has been signed). She said it was because she has had an offer in a better house nearer campus. I have a feeling it is her way of getting out of the contract. But as I say that is just a guess....
My gut feeling is, your daughter is prone to drinking too much and getting to a state where she does things like snog a whole group of people and not be aware enough to consider whether that’s appropriate. You need to talk to her about consent and not drinking to excess rather than coming up with spurious excuses when her behaviour comes back to bite her, and stop writing it off as “silly student” behaviour. I was a student, I went out drinking, never once did I get so drunk it seemed like a good idea to snog a whole group of people.

Playmytune

Your truth is funny and helps no-one.

It sounds as if your dd would be better sharing with someone else next year. Can she find someone else? Can the girl get out of the contract?

Yabbers
Idk how old you are but snogging like this is far more accepted these days from what I read. I never group snogged at university either.

What makes this rather different to a typical rape case is that there will be a load of witnesses.

Other than the level of seriousness. Prosecuting people for drunken snogging? I'm glad I'm no longer young.

@bigKiteFlying

Perhaps you are thinking of the Royal Agricultural University case.

The prosecution offered no evidence at trial. In plain English, the barrister overseeing the prosecution would have realised that the evidence against the defendants was poor. We can speculate from this that the filming of the sex didn't show rape but was inconclusive or even showed the opposite.

I recall that a defendant was convicted of making an intimate visual recording without consent, which is a separate offence in its own right.

Basically all those involved were as drunk as lords.

There has been a string of cases where the CPS has pressed on regardless, even where the evidence has not just been poor but actually favourable to the defendant, and the case has ended up being dropped. A few years back the CPS had a public drive to increase the number of prosecutions brought for rape, and in order to up the numbers they appear to have brought some very poor cases.

Well we are presuming the daughters account is true, because we are not judge and jury. so we are hearing one side

This is always the case on a forum. It's the fortress of the unreliable narrator.

There isn't anything wrong with snogging more that one person, assuming everyone is happy. Why is it inappropriate? It would be inappropriate for me in my late thirties, monogamous relationship, two children, proper job. The op's DD is young and should make the most of it imo.

I can't see that the police will be interested much but it's still a horrible thing to go through. I would go and see her and see if you could contact someone from her uni?
I Hope you can sort it out.

@Playmytune - how do you get from three people drinking a non-alchoholic fruit drink and watching movies, then one leaving when the other two start to kiss, to the on who left being guilty of abandoning a drunk friend (drunk on guava juice ) to be raped, and being guilty of enabling the rape?

Are you going to come back and explain how you managed to completely misunderstand what @BlackPrism said, and apologise for being so unpleasant to them?

I think people have lost their senses on this thread. There is a complete difference between being incapable of consent (too drunk to reciprocate) and only consenting because you are drunk.
And there is a very big difference between rape and kissing.
It is not really possible to ‘snog’ someone who doesn’t snog you back-however drunk you are you would surely stop if the other person wasn’t kissing you back. And if you kiss someone back - it generally indicates consent.
Being drunk does not mean your actions are involuntary. You can’t kiss someone back and claim you didn’t ‘consent’ because you were drunk, in the same way you can’t hit someone back and claim you didn’t consent to hitting them.
Anything we do drunk we still do.
The question of consent and alcohol is when we are rendered incapable of acting and are a made a victim because of the inability to do anything to prevent someone acting.
So if the young women in this account kissed back - however drunk - it’s still consent. If she didn’t kiss back it’s an unpleasant experience but usually you would expect someone to very quickly turn their head away.
Is she saying she was physically prevented from turning her head, and then forcefully kissed without reciprocating? Because thats very different.
But it sounds like a kiss that was reciprocated- a snog-which - even while very drunk - is not the same as being incapable of consent.

As much as the metoo movement was necessary, things seem to have gone to the absolute other extreme end now and I'm hearing a lot of things like this. It's sad because in my opinion it will start to recede some of the good that come from the movement but essentially, if the woman goes to the police your dd is stuffed because of the current climate. However, hopefully that won't happen!