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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Why is it the majority of men just bury their heads in the sand when their wives are unhappy in the marriage?

96 replies

BillyBusStop · 01/05/2019 06:49

When I divorced, my lawyer told me that 75% of divorces are initiated by wives against husbands. I tried EVERYTHING to get my exdh to engage in some sort of relationship therapy because I didn't want the marriage to break. We were together over 20yrs. His answer was 'If you've got a problem, that's your problem - go away & deal with it & come back when you have done'. He refused to join me in doing anything, we had no sex life, all assets were strictly controlled by him & in his sole name. Over the course of my therapy, I woke up to the realities of my relationship & it became untenable to continue.

Now two of my friends are in the same boat. Husbands refusing to engage with any sort of counselling, don't want the status quo to change & are both about to lose their wives. I find it SO sad. What is it about so many men that makes them resolutely refuse to engage?

OP posts:
Graphista · 02/05/2019 04:43

Ohhhh I hear ya!

I also had ex claiming I was "greedily pestering" for more maintenance - when he wasn't paying ANY! (Proved that one to the relevant people too)

And over the years since that I "turned dd against" him - when I bent over backwards and often went short myself to facilitate their keeping up a relationship -,since I stopped he hasn't seen her in years she's lucky if he remembers to send a birthday card ffs!

Don't wanna look like "the bad guy" don't fucking BE one! It's not hard!!

RiversDisguise · 02/05/2019 05:14

I suffer from very bad PMS and for a few days a month I was very angry and unhappy and wanted a divorce

My husband figured out the pattern/cause before I did

I'm very fucking happy he didn't take me at my word and start dissolving the marriage based on mood swings that it eventually took medication to get under some kind of control. We love each other and have a good marriage and it was like my personality flipped every month.

rosabug · 02/05/2019 09:17

It's all about the mother. Everything. That's the model of love a man has. If he has a mother who does everything for him and expects little - that's what you get in a partner. Some men don't have to bother about what mum feels do they? Because they are always there and will always be.

Of course this is not always the case by any means. A man with a mum who is outward facing from the family as well as caring, can converse honestly and allows/facilitates the son to share feelings and develop empathy, has self respect and autonomy, has the ability to make a great guy.

I don't want to seem as if I am blaming the mothers - but as parents we have enormous power. At some point, of course, all adults have to take responsibility for themselves. But if individuals have not been taught that they need to consider others, learn and practice self-development skills, then that's not an easy place to get to.

With women it's different - our love object - is the 'other' - the father, and obviously that comes with a whole load of complexity too. But it's different.

Nosunnofun · 02/05/2019 10:14

How many men will say that they have never grown up, they are just a kid at heart. That's the Crux of it I think, if they have wifey at home being the grown up, doing the childcare, the cooking and the cleaning they don't have to worry about it, a split will mean they have to actually grow up. It's nice if they are in love and have a great sex life, but it's not necessary, anyway those things can be outsourced.

SignedUpJust4This · 02/05/2019 10:25

After 20 years of arguments with my husband I have come to the conclusion that he has zero social intelligence. He cannot fathom why I am hurt or what I am trying to say.

Even when I spell it out for him he cannot articulate his feelings back to me. He just buries his head in the sand and waits for it to blow over. I have now learned that I need to ask the right questions to try (in an non-accusatory way) to really understand him. And I literally have to give him analogies involving him and his feelings to get him to understand why I am hurt/angry (like I do with my 4yo!)

For years I just thought he didn't care but I recently realised he takes every tiny criticism to heart very deeply even if he doesn't show it.

Hes not autistic just very poorly socially developed. I wonder if this is a product of his upbringing. His Dad wanted him to be tough and his family never talk about feelings. Boys don't cry etc.

I think if I said I was considering divorce he would bury his head in sand as always.

IceCreamAndCandyfloss · 02/05/2019 17:00

I do think men take the vows more seriously, it's not usually them that need the romantic proposal, huge wedding etc.

I also think that many stay because of the children. Not many get custody or sharded equal care.

yetmorecrap · 02/05/2019 17:30

I also think more men than women get involved in stuff they really shouldn't when life isn't going 100% hunky dory, not quite one long Disney World. That can be be inappropriate flirting, affairs, crushes, drugs, booze, gambling. Its as if they have to find 'something' to fixate on and distract from any life issues , rather than talking to their wives about it. --and these things then create problems in themselves. Women I feel tend to chat things through more with friends/family, indeed turn to places like mumsnet and tend to internalise more, rather than automatically reaching for the nearest available woman, bottle, weed at the first sign of issues.

mummmy2017 · 03/05/2019 12:31

Men see to be able to turn the love off and walk away...

ScreamingLadySutch · 03/05/2019 12:50

THIS

"Because they see their wives as domestic appliances and no one asks a washing machine if it's happy"

ParadiseInDisguise · 03/05/2019 12:57

I have known men ask themselves if their wife is happy or why she isn’t happy, and them try to make her happy. But these men are in the minority. I have realised it is hard to find a good man, so keep him if you do. Good men do care how their wife feels in the relationship and there’s nothing that will make them happier than making their woman happy.

They are rare to find though.

ParadiseInDisguise · 03/05/2019 13:22

ALovelySpirit, I get you. Men find it hard understanding women (generalising), or even following women’s conversations as my DH still gets annoyed and tells me to stop changing subjects all the time. However, he can absolutely see when something is wrong, will ask and will make attempts to put it right. So it is respectful on my part to actually tell him what is wrong or how I would like it fixed. Then we can sensibly discuss the options and find a satisfactory outcome. Sometimes it is a case of him listening to my side of the story and me listening to his without making any changes, just understanding better what the other one feels. Satisfactory outcome in my book.

The problems start when the H or the W isn’t interested in talking or finding out what the issue is. They just want their partner to shut up, put up and act normal. How they do it is not their concern. Just hurry up and snap out of your mood.

Then I can see how women get fed up of being ignored in their own marriage. She is there to fulfill a purpose and provide a service, the partner can’t care less what is going on in her mind or her heart. It is an inconvenience having to tend to the relationship.

With men it is mostly wives not understanding their need for physical intimacy. Men absolutely see it differently. I am lucky in that I am on the same page with my DH on that one, but it never seizes to amaze me how many women aren’t interested in sex, don’t care about it and don’t see it as important.
They often don’t realise what a devastating effect this can have on their spouse.

ParadiseInDisguise · 03/05/2019 13:28

Finally there is also, from what I can see, more belief in the marriage vows amongst men ‘till death do us part” than women. I suspect most men are convinced their marriage is forever, women not so much.

Men may well believe it, but it is nearly always women who invest more in their marriage, emotionally, their time, their headspace. Bringing home the bacon is the easy bit when families are concerned.

Seniorschoolmum · 03/05/2019 13:34

No idea but I’d like to know.

My ex went away with his mates on my birthday, 8 years in a row. Each year I tried to compromise, negotiate, protest to no avail. He never changed a nappy, never did a school run or a sports day. I worked full time too. And that was just the background stuff.
Six months after I left he asked that we try again. When I said “what for?” he couldn’t tell me. 7 years later, still waiting for any kind of an answer.

Seniorschoolmum · 03/05/2019 13:49

Maybe a new version of the marriage vows is needed.

To love, cherish and share domestic tasks Grin

ParadiseInDisguise · 03/05/2019 13:52

My take it that when a man loses interest in you then it’s over. If he won’t fully commit to the process then he is just buying time. He doesn’t care about you. Just self preservation whether that he house/income/children. Whatever.

Yep, and women keep trying and trying and trying. Took me a few years to learn that one.
If a man isn’t working with you and making an effort off his own back, walk away woman. He knows what he wants and it’s not what you think.

Graphista · 03/05/2019 18:16

ScreamingLadySutch interesting article. But I think it shies away from the "sulking as punishment" element.

I disagree

Men have the same ability to listen and communicate as women, you do realise you're giving those men that say "my wife doesn't understand me" validity?

Good men (I agree they're few and far between) usually don't NEED to be told what is good and decent behaviour towards their partner spouse.

Myself and a few other posters have noted on the type of threads where others respond things like "he's living in the 50's" that actually older generations of men in certain ways behave/d better than, I would say, those currently aged 50 or younger.

Yes, division of labour was along old fashioned sexist borders BUT there WAS division of labour! A HUGE problem I notice with the current crop of husbands/partners and particularly those that are fathers to non adult children is LAZINESS.

Something my father, uncles and grandfathers could NEVER have been accused of (they absolutely weren't saints but of this they were never guilty).

Yes the women were primarily responsible for childcare, most of the housework, cooking, but the men did far more than "modern" men do in terms of being primarily responsible for household finances, admin, DIY, decorating, building maintenance, garden maintenance, car maintenance, "heavy" jobs like carrying shopping, hoovering (this one surprised me until I TRIED to move my grans ancient Hoover 😂 weighed a bloody ton!), moving furniture, putting items away in loft/garage, building toys that required it...

And it's a myth they weren't involved with their children too, traditionally they got more involved as children got older - which makes sense biologically and in terms of dividing labour, for mums to care for the babies they were likely bf and thus spending more time with so dads gradually take over care of older ones, doing things like teaching them to cycle, swim, climb, light fires, build things, read, helping with homework, teaching them about nature...

I've read several threads this week alone where the husband/partner and father does NOTHING beyond their paid job - and in some of those cases the paid job wasn't even full time! LAZY!

The women have TOLD these men what the problem is very clearly, BEGGED them to "help" with their own CHILDRENS basic needs largely to no avail.

And then these men claim to not understand why the woman is pissed off and considering divorce/separation!

Regarding physical intimacy - mismatched sex drives are common but it's not always the wives that aren't interested. There are quite a few threads discussing the man's low sex drive. It can be a tricky thing to navigate and requires careful, considerate discussion.

Though I have to say, again, that often a lack of sexual interest from the woman can be the result of resentment, hurt and emotional exhaustion caused by his poor care of his wife's needs. At the most basic level a woman who is doing EVERYTHING apart from his paid job is more than likely too knackered to want sex!

On the rare occasions a man posts complaining about a lack of sex it's usually fairly quickly ascertained he's not putting effort into the relationship (they try to claim otherwise or fudge but it's rarely not seen through) and when they're rightly criticised for this and told if they address this they may well find their wife is again interested they tend to flounce!

I don't believe women don't care about or enjoy a good sex life (medical ailments notwithstanding which can affect libido) women enjoy sex as much as men - but not if their sex partner is treating them like shit! Major turn off

Re vows - I think many men need reminding of what the vows mean! They're not an ethereal entity that magically binds a couple together they're promises to behave in such a way as to nurture and maintain the relationship.

If they REALLY believed in them more than women they would act accordingly.

That means loving ACTIVELY - caring for your spouse, supporting them, helping them without always having to be asked - much less nagged, cajoled and coerced into doing the basics!

Cherish means to protect and care for that which you love. That to me means protecting your marriage as well as your spouse.

And don't even get me started on "forsaking all others" which far too many men ignore pretty early on!

"Maybe a new version of the marriage vows is needed.

To love, cherish and share domestic tasks"

I know you were speaking in jest but I do think it would make sense if they were clearer and worded more appropriately for modern life.

Would take a lot of consultation but for me should include things like:

Be faithful - in heart & mind as well as body. Prioritise your marriage and don't even THINK of entertaining flirtations from others.

Be fair - don't expect them to be your slave, share responsibilities and tasks equally.

Be kind - there's the most obvious abuses of course, but also less obvious like sulking, not stepping up when your spouse needs you to (sickness is one example, but there's also times when one or other is just more tired or lower in emotional reserves than the other)

Communicate - kindly and clearly. But not just when you're talking, LISTEN - listening is a real skill and active listening would solve many communications issues.

Be supportive - in all ways. Life ebbs and flows. Sometimes one spouse will have more money/time/energy and the other less, you balance each other out.

Personally I also think people should get couple counselling before marrying/moving in together (pipe dream I know!) to identify potential conflicts and differences in ideology, ideally with a view to addressing them, finding a way to compromise but sometimes it could mean a couple learns they're not well suited.

Again on other threads I've noticed a LOT of couples move in together before discussing their beliefs/attitudes on MAJOR issues like

Whether to have children or not
If so when - inc before or after marriage
If they are having children will one reduce hours or become a sahp and if so who
Which childcare & how to cover sickness etc
How to organise finances
If neither has a property large enough for their needs (this is usually also an issue for couples with children from previous relationships, having had at least one relationship breakdown you'd think they had the sense to at least communicate but apparently not) where will they live and how will that be facilitated
Division of labour

I find it shocking how easily people move in together especially blending families without even discussing such things far less reaching agreement.

MintyCedric · 03/05/2019 18:24

because women can be very moody and hard to understand.

You've just described my XH perfectly

Overseasmom100 · 03/05/2019 21:39

My DH is secreative, sneeky, lies apart silly things, selfish but things he's perfect

Overseasmom100 · 03/05/2019 21:39

Thinks

LaBarbera · 04/05/2019 16:19

My ex told me very early on that men don't end relationships so long as they are still "getting sex". His words, not mine. And I wish I'd listened because, as usual when people generalise like that, he was really telling me about himself.

When things started going very wrong, he wouldn't listen if I tried to talk about stuff while I was upset, because I was "being emotional". But if I tried to raise them when I wasn't upset, it was "fine", and there was no point talking about it because it clearly wasn't a problem. When I finally left, he claimed I had "made my mind up" and there was no point talking -- which was true, actually. It then took well over a year before he would even admit to anyone that we had split, although I was physically living elsewhere.

I don't think this is necessarily a male thing. But I do think my ex got away with it because he had his career (I was a trailing spouse) and had been socialised to pursue his own needs first. He liked being married and evidently didn't care too much how it was going, although if severely pressed, he'd admit we were unhappy. I'd given up a lot to be married, so I cared, and I have no doubt that if you asked him now he'd tell you that I was a "crazy" over-emotional woman who set about ruining a perfectly satisfactory marriage. And I'm sure that from his point of view it is true.

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