HELP

[lowerthanalowthing]

I have 2 daughters from a previous relationship and a son with my husband of 15 years.
My eldest daughter (20) doesn't live with us, she moved out at 18 due to clashes with my husband as she grew up, they just couldn't get along. She had lived happily on her own for the past 2 years now, with me very involved in her life! Home life was easier all round without her being there. I know that sounds awful, but my other daughter (17) felt happier too- she gets on fine with my husband and has never had any issues so it's not because of blood, it's a definite personality clash.
My eldest daughter has got herself into a bad relationship, she's been the victim of abuse, and hasn't been paying her bills, got into a mess and has asked to come home cos she needs me.
I've broached the subject with my husband (nervously) and he said he doesn't want her here.
I now feel really torn because she needs me, but my son and other daughter also need him... I feel like I'm being made to choose.
Is affecting the way I am with him, I feel bitter and angry towards him and I'm picking fights constantly. I know I am, but I feel so angry with him.
What should I do?
I'm thinking of leaving, renting a house for me the kids (all of them) but is that fair on the others? He is adamant she isn't moving back in, but she hasn't paid her rent for 2 months now and I can't afford to pay it, and I want to keep her safe away from her abusive partner!! I don't see any other way out of it.
Help!

As @SandyY2K said, if you do this, you must set rules to have any semblance of a peaceful home. Put up strong boundaries and stick to them. Your daughter will certainly agree with your rules initially, but eventually she is likely to resist your structure. How would you handle that? What would the consequences be? Would you be willing to send her away from the new home that you’ve moved everyone into?

I think that you need the support of counseling if you are going to undertake this.

I see these issues:
Your other children’s lives will be destabilized by moving from their home and father. They will grieve. They don’t need the added frustration of a chaotic environment and disruptive adult sibling. You describe her as “quite abusive” and “very nasty.” You must protect your other two. They don’t deserve to be her targets.

Would your younger children feel free to tell you if they were miserable and struggling? It sounds like your younger daughter already feels pressured.

Your daughter was excluded from school, so her defiant, irresponsible behavior spreads beyond home. Has she ever had counseling? She possibly has oppositional defiant disorder or other MH issue. She needs to address this with a therapist. Perhaps she needs medication.

Does your daughter abuse drugs or alcohol? You said she would come home “pissed.”

You say that she hasn’t been paying her bills. Does she intend for you to pay them? I hope she has a job.

She has had terrible boyfriends and has recently been with an abuser. She may return to him or pick another. She is an adult, so you cannot micromanage this, but you will be living with the likely chaos of her dating life. Counseling could help her with relationship issues if she is open to it.

Personally, I wouldn’t form another home because I couldn’t sabotage my other children’s lives. It is too risky and is likely to go south, to everyone’s detriment.

Your adult daughter has been making poor choices for years. Her defiant, reckless ways and poor coping mechanisms are not going to just disappear. I would help her emotionally and financially as much as I could while she gets back on her feet, but I wouldn’t sacrifice my other children’s well-being.

Msdoglady

Thank you for your advice.

I agree about the counselling, I have actually spoken to her about it - at the moment she is refusing but I think in time she will come round to the idea.

She admits she is attracted to 'bad boys'
This is a problem!
She has smoked weed with her last boyfriend and does drink but only on a night out at wknds. She hasn't smoked weed since he left and she admitted she felt she had to to fit in.

She does have a job but due to poor time keeping they have cut her shifts, unfortunately. She has been having a few sick days and not telling me. Again, if she was under my roof this is something I could be aware of and ensure she does attend work.

She has been under a number of help schemes such as cahms, and I did call social services as when she was 14 she attacked me so I reported her behaviour to them to get help. (And before everyone jumps on me for being a bad parent, it was only because I'd asked her to tidy her room)
And I needed her help.

It's ok for everyone to judge me, I should have done this and that... I did what I thought was right at the time.

My daughter (17) doesn't want her to come home either really and you're right she feels pressured, as does my DH too. My son is too young to have that conversation with.

I've been paying her rent, bills etc but it's a lot, and would ease that financially if she moved in with us too.

Thank you for actually having a conversation about this and not blaming, and casting aspersions. I appreciate it x

I don't know if this is of any help, and I'd not post on MN to ask advice about it, because being told to LTB is spectacularly unhelpful/simplistic for my situation (and probably yours too).

I've been with my DH for 5 years. Blended family. 4 Kids are now mostly teens.

Eldest DD wanted me to remain single until she left home. Which would have been from the age of 3 onwards. I'm sorry that was not her choice to make. I think many MNetters feel her stance is reasonable. That you should never introduce another partner into your children's lives, ever.

Her teen and preteen years have not been particularly easy. She fights with DH (her step dad). But she fights with everyone and has a tongue like a whip. She could fight with the wall. She was a difficult toddler too.

DH sees a CBT psychologist. I go with him once a month. Due in a large part to her behavior. We seem to be coming out the other side, at least with her. It's been very interesting.

The advice we have is that she has narcissistic tendencies. Her real dad is a narcissist, if not a psychopath. So keen that her road should not be his.

What we have been advised is that she should not be allowed under any circumstances to take a larger part than her place in conversations and family life in general.

So 4 people present she gets to talk 25% of the time. And it's our job to make sure the others talk more too (by asking them direct questions). Everyone must talk at table, no talking over others and no interruptions. It's very prescriptive, but it has really worked. And my god I find it hard not interrupting.

There are also house rules and everyone has to follow them. She is a rule follower so finds that bit easy and loves it, less so the rest of us. We negotiate the rules hard and once agreement has been reached we stick to them.

I hope this is of some help. Good luck.

Choose your daughter.

She shouldn't have had to have moved out at 18. No wonder she's ended up in a shit, abusive relationship. That's not much much more than s kid. And females are especially vulnerable.

She'd still very young now. Looking back we a thought we were adults at that age but in reality most of us were more something between kids and adults.

You have the chance now to halt her life getting into a pattern of shit.

It doesn't matter if your other daughter gig on with him, he shouldn't have been out and be her. He's a grown man, she was a vulnerable young woman/girl. Shouldn't havd been outside home. She probably feels like you chose him over her and it probably hasn't helped her self esteem.

Plus maybe she took your divorce and the breakup of he'd family harder than your other daughter, for whatever reasons. Maybe she didn't want to be in a blended family with this man: she was given no choice.

• put above her

*her

Your husband could leave any time he wanted if there was friction, tension, dislike etc. - she couldn't, she was trapped & dependant, stuck in that situation until she was 17/18 - but that's too young for many people, esp girls, to be living permanently outside home independently.

How old was she when her own/original family broke up she was forced into this blended family with your now husband and a then a new baby?

How soon did it become apparent that she wasn't happy in the situation? I have a feeling you pressed on with your new relationship regardless.

But now she's being portrayed as a delinquent from a young age. Maybe she felt powerless and side lined.

*Your other children’s lives will be destabilized by moving from their home and father. They will grieve. They don’t need the added frustration of a chaotic environment and disruptive adult sibling. You must protect your other two. They don’t deserve to be her targets.

Would your younger children feel free to tell you if they were miserable and struggling? It sounds like your younger daughter already feels pressured."

Pity none of this was adhered to the first time around for this girl when she was a child.

We could substitute "disruptive adult" with "hostile adult", "adult she doesn't like", " adult she doesn't want to have to live with".

Also describing a 20 year old as an adult .. as if there aren't stages of adulthood. Her being at the earliest. She's 20, 2 short years ago she could've been going to school in a uniform, doing her a levels, considered a school girl.

But she was living independently- too young.

I've shared houses with girls who were our on their own, living with boyfriends from 16/17 onwards - due to clashes with mummy's partner etc - and then were extremely vulnerable underneath all the bravado and apparent bad behaviour. Their parents failed them in my view and set them up for a shit life.

(My sister was also one of them).

*out of their own

Incidentally things haven't gotten better for my sister, she's an alcoholic now. And she's been through a lot of shit and a lot of bad relationships.

You can still see the pain in her eyes when she talks about trying to live on her own as a teen-ager, including managing her meagre finances - how likely was she to manage them well, she was not much more than a kid. Plenty of true adults can barely manage them.

And I have no doubt money issues led to to stay in relationships that were shit cause they paid for stuff, helped her out (for a price).

She was disruptive but I'd rather (as her younger sister) have had her at home, with the safe haven that most young people need - than set on that course. It was up to my parents to manage her behaviour.

Where's her biological dad in all this, presuming he hasn't passed away?

Have you ever implied to her what you've stated on her - that you feel you and he broke up over her, that she was 'defiant' at 18 months and hd couldn't deal with her?

I'm sure that must be very wonderful for her happiness and self esteem - knowing her 'real' dad walked out, presumably has had nothing to do with her since (?) as well as the dynamic with her step dad.

They didn't get on as she grew up (what like a typical teenager, with their own patent let alone a step parent?) And it's a ' personality conflict' between them.

Equal onus shouldn't be in a child/teenager to get on with an adult and not clash with their personality - they're growing, developing, rebelling, they have a juvenile brain, they don't have the communication or resolution skills if an adult, or the perspective or maturity.

If your attitude towards her re her stepfather was anything like with her biological father, I dread to think what's been said to her/,how she's been treated.

Also if she made things so tough with your first husband/partner and was so hard to deal with, why did you go on to have another child with him.

Maybe it was the combined demand and stress of a toddler and young baby at the same time; that's as common as much and is not her fault and not an excuse for her dad to walk out or your relationship to break down. Nor does defiant sound anything different from normal toddler wilfulness and tantrums.

Reality was he was a shit father who couldn't - wouldn't deal with the normal stresses of parenting young children.

But you're still blaming her 18 and a half yes later.

*years

Didn't you have a thread before about your DH being abusive and moody and none of the kids liked him anyway.... Move out.

Which ones are his kids? I'm confused. Your previous thread said you'd been with him 19 years.

I wouldn't be moving anywhere with my kids. She would be moving into my home and if DH doesn't like it he can go rent a flat. Why disrupt you and 2 other kids to accommodate your oldest to leave your DH in a big house. He can bugger off.

Wow! You've scapegoated this poor kid since she was 18 months old!

Quit blaming her! No way an 18 month old was to blame for her behaviour absolutely no way! And NO FUCKING WAY was she responsible for your ex leaving! How utterly pathetic that all her parents care so little for her!

Not only do you need to prioritise her now you also need to give serious consideration to family therapy with a therapist that understands toxic families.

No wonder she ended up in an abusive relationship that's probably all she thinks she is worth after a lifetime of rejection!

WHY you married a man your eldest NEVER took to is beyond me, no man would ever come before my child EVER.

"but she isn't easy and I have every right to say that" bullshit! A person isn't fully formed at fucking 18 months! Hell they're nowhere close to fully formed even at 18 years!!!!

You have utterly failed her so far - you have a chance now not to fail her again.

"I didn't chose my husband over my daughter" you absolutely did!

NOTHING you have said about her behaviour sounds anything other than fairly normal late teen behaviour, I suspect if she played up slightly more than other late teens it's because she was getting absolutely slated anyway and "may as well get hung for a sheep as a lamb". Poor kid.

"You need to give her some tough love" I completely disagree, I think she just needs love full stop which I believe has been seriously lacking in her life.

I would LOVE to hear her side.

This has all not only been damaging to her but your other kids too, maybe they're so well behaved so they're not rejected too.

I despair I really do at how many women do not prioritise their kids over a shag!!!

I despair I really do at how many women do not prioritise their kids over a shag!!!

While I agree wholeheartedly with your post, strictly speaking it wasn't over a shag; it's been over a relationship/marriage/security etc. - not that that's much better.

Also I have to laugh at the suggestions that this problem child, delinquent go for therapy/counselling in her own to work out her issues.

She's not the one who needs therapy/counselling.

Any issues someone this young, whose life experience to date has almost exclusively been of her family (with her mother who's thought she was a problem since she was 18 months old and her step father who doesn't like her) are about their childhood/upbringing.

They're merely being added to by the shit bf's she's been getting involved with, living independently since 18; not the main problem.

I remember your other thread a few months ago, where he was moody and abusive and you didn't like him but felt trapped. This is your cue to leave.

Poor kids. She's been scapegoated for years, it's no wonder she wound up in some abusive relationship. Your son may well chose to live with his father.

he was moody and abusive and you didn't like him

But how could that be when the problem is a personality conflict between the 'problem child' (defiant and caused her parents to split as a toddler) and him?

FFS op - I know life and relationships are hard and it's easy for someone not in the situation to day get out, but seriously .. time to move out, move him out and help your daughter (and try to undo the damage that's been done to her). If you haven't already sorting his you'll manage financially would be a good basic thing to start.

*sorting out

Morality - it will have started out being just for a shag! Op herself says they've never got on.

As for therapy I'm suggesting it as a way for this poor kid to get support.

I agree she's not the one with her priorities messed up and needing therapy for that reason.

I'm just so sick of kids being dealt a shit hand by adults not prioritising them.

And I don't mean that single parents should never date or have relationships but you do so WITH your kids needs at the forefront of EVERY major decision affecting their lives that you make.

You don't introduce your kids to every guy who gives you Fanny gallops, you don't move your kids in with someone too soon who doesn't like them and they don't like and there's clashes, you don't make yourself vulnerable financially so you can't leave if there's major problems, you don't ignore the problems and you don't prioritise a bloody man over your kids EVER.