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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Is moving in together supposed to be this complicated?

105 replies

wellaloevera · 05/04/2019 10:58

I’ve reached a bit of an impasse with my DP and could really use some advice on what to do next please.

We’ve been together for 3 and a half years, taken things really slow as both of us are divorced and we have three kids between us (ages 6-10). Time spent together has increased naturally to the point where we spend almost every night at his place or mine both with and without kids. We’ve discussed the future, and although neither of us wants more children or to get married, we would like to live together.

He owns his flat outright, I own mine with a mortgage. Neither of our homes are big enough to house all of us together. He has never rented and doesn’t want to so we’ve been looking for a place to buy.

But here is the tricky bit. In order to finance the kind of house we need (i.e. each kid having their own bedroom) we will have to sell one of our properties. We’re in a position to keep one, and have agreed that should things go wrong at least one of us will be able to move out into the other property. However, which property we sell is the tough bit. Mine is my only asset, it’s solely in my name, I was lucky to be able to buy it and having had to move so many times in the fallout of my divorce I’m reluctant to sell up. Although admittedly I don’t have the cashflow to be an effective landlord if we kept mine. As for his place, the financial order he has with his ex-wife has a ‘clause’ in it that states that should he stop paying the mortgage on the family home, his place would then belong to her. If he sells his place and buys another home, this clause is automatically transferred, and having his ex-wife’s name on a property I would be living in makes me nervous (she can be very difficult).

We’ve agreed that we’ll draw up a legal agreement so that our assets are protected should we split and should one of us die, our respective children will get the share. However this does leave me nervous about where I would end up if this happens – if we split or he dies I would have to move again and if I don’t have my current property to fall back on, I’ll be back in the same situation I was in when I got divorced.

At the same time, finances are not going to change for either of us for a long time, so even if we leave it for now we will be in same position in a year, or two, or four… and although I’m not in a rush, packing a bag etc for every visit is getting tiresome. He's also stressing as he really wants to give his kids their own rooms (at the moment they share at his). And the cynical part of me worries that his main driving force for moving is that, and not because he actually really wants to live together. If we can’t work something out it’s leaving me wondering if we really have a future.

I hope this makes sense, could use some thoughts if anybody has any!

OP posts:
StormTreader · 05/04/2019 17:20

So...she cheated on him and then he had to buy her a house? How does that work?

AnneOfCleanTables · 05/04/2019 17:30

This is complicated because it's not right for you and you can sense that but are wanting your DP to realise it too.
His situation with his ex is too precarious and there's no need for you to make yourself vulnerable so you can both buy. Renting would make sense. His refusal to rent would be the end of the 'moving in together' plans for me. If he won't rent then you can't move in together. You continue as you are.

Notthatsimple · 05/04/2019 17:31

I’d feel bloody uncomfortable if I was you!

  • he’s the most motivated to get a new house
  • it is within his power to make that happen (you say he could sell his and it would work) but he doesn’t want to
  • he appears to be the dominant one in your relationship (you assume that YOU would be the one to leave our joint home if you split, even if it was your house that was sold)

Very glad you’ve seen the flags. Take care, OP

Bookworm4 · 05/04/2019 17:58

The arrangement with his exW seems bizarre; she cheated on him, gets the family home to herself and potentially his home, doesn't work and has a new partner!?! She certainly had the last laugh. Is there no way this agreement can be challenged/changed? Why did he agree to it?

category12 · 05/04/2019 18:07

I'd want him to go back to court and get a clean break with his ex-wife before entangling finances or sharing a home, (unless it's rented).

If he can't see it from your point of view, you really have to question what his motives are and his care for you. it would be all very fine if you didn't have dc, you could take whatever risks you want for yourself, but you've got to be hardheaded about this for your dc.

MIA12 · 05/04/2019 18:12

Have you actually seen the court paperwork regarding this strange financial set up between his ex and his flat? It sounds... unusual, to say the least Hmm

Romax · 05/04/2019 18:15

The fact she cheated on him is utterly irrelevant in eyes of divorce courts

BorsetshireBlew · 05/04/2019 18:21

I think you'd be completely mad to sell your house and buy a property together without even trying renting for a year. Please don't do this.

smurfette1818 · 05/04/2019 21:45

Just to recap:

At present what he has is essentially a property with negative equity, given the mortgage he has to pay on the marital home is higher than the value of the flat. As LemonTT said his net worth is zero.

Additionally the property is too small, not enough to accommodate two children visiting at weekends or even extra drawers for you to leave your stuffs.

You on the other hand have some equity and the property is in the right size for you and your child.

From this proposed arrangement, he in the short term would gain:

  • extra living space he desperately needed
  • 50% stake in a house without having to raise a deposit
  • a Buy to Let investment

you however would lose your only asset and replace it with 50% share in a house with extra living space you didn't even need.

If the arrangement does not work out, assuming that happens after his youngest child turns 18, he would be able to easily raise mortgage from his flat and buy you out. The sum you received may not be enough to purchase a house outright (at that point in time, you will be older and the type of mortgage you qualify for, will likely to be limited)

If things went well, long term he has an investment property, he can pass it to his children during his lifetime, if he wants to. Your child however would have to wait until you both passed away before selling the home and split the proceeds with his kids.

Also, given you pay 100% deposit for the house, he presumably would need to pay larger mortgage payments in the early years to catch up? can he afford that on top of spousal/children maintenance, mortgage payments for the marital home.

The fairer arrangement actually I think is for the new house to be in your sole name only (after all, you provided 100% deposit) or you to take the majority stake (75%-80%). If things did not work out, you can simply buy him out. If things went well, he can buy extra share when he can afford it.

That is if you still want to go with it. In my opinion, a fair/good partner with your best interest at heart would not even think to suggest such arrangement at the first place. If this is a business proposal, it would be laughable as well as insulting.

Sally2791 · 05/04/2019 21:52

Keep your asset whatever you do.

wellaloevera · 06/04/2019 11:45

Thanks for all the comments guys, I really appreciate it. I think smurfette has summed it up in words I can’t put together.

Regarding his family home, I think it was decided she would stay there as being the SAHM for the children meant more stability for them. Which makes sense. The adultery was irrelevant I guess. But it is an unusual financial situation and one I’m not comfortable with at all.

OP posts:
lifebegins50 · 06/04/2019 11:57

@smurfette, I hadn't considered the inheritance aspect but that is a big deal and usually only thought about when you make a will and see the inequality to your DC.

The point about making a proposal which blatantly suits him is also very valid. I would see this as a red flag, given my past experience, as Ex played on my good nature and I assumed it was mutual - until you split up abd then learn that their values are not the same.
I believe there are many men who take advantage of women, playing on our sense of family and wanting to be committed. For your assets be hard nosed and make sure you are protected, but that fact that you have to be like that does ring alarm bells.

Lucked · 06/04/2019 12:05

If he doesn’t want to rent then he has to go back to court and ask for a clean financial break.

Financial the best thing he could do would be to stop paying the mortgage on the family home and hand the keys to his flat to his ex wife and start again from scratch (NOT ADVISING THIS). What I mean is that he does have some bargaining power here when returning to court.

Happynow001 · 06/04/2019 16:15

@wellaloevera
Careful OP. Your instincts and experience re the failed/abusive relationship with your Ex are ringing alarm bells for a reason. your hard won security/independence for you and your DC are at stake here.

Why doesn't he want to compromise and just rent together if he wants to blend your families in a more spacious home? Relationships, especially with children - are full of compromises).

Get some proper legal advice before you do anything which will leave you and your DC financially disadvantaged - in the same way your DP was.

S0faSl33p6 · 06/04/2019 17:05

He is your partner, not your husband. I agree that I would not sacrifice your financial asset/ house. Do you pay into a private pension ? What are your plans for retirement ? Your first priority should be to yourself and your children.

MoviesT · 06/04/2019 18:47

Is there an option where either or both of you could sell up, and buy 2 apartments very close to each other? Unconventional but you would preserve your independence. I agree with others, you will be disadvantaged if you buy with him unless he untangles his finances from his ex wife.

Lucked · 06/04/2019 20:24

I actually like the idea of buying flats in the same development. Unconventional but worth considering.

Hearhere · 06/04/2019 22:08

I have a set up slightly like this, I live a few minutes walk away from my long-term partner
it works for us and I can see us having separate apartments in the same development perhaps when we get older

wellaloevera · 07/05/2019 15:05

Thought I should update on this. We had 'the discussion', which didn't go very well at all and was quite enlightening for me. Basically, he sees it that he will never challenge the amount of spousal maintenance he pays to his ex as he sees it going towards the childrens' upkeep, and that he is happy to pay just over half his wages in total. He said he thinks all divorced men should do this (a definite dig as my ex pays the barest maintenance he can through the CMS and I get no spousal). He is banking on the exw getting married (thus ending the spousal) but I can't see that happening, certainly not for a long time.

We discussed pretty much everything, he re-iterated that he will not go into rented together, he can sell his flat but the charge would go on any home...etc etc. He wasn't pleased that I said I'm having to take the biggest risks if I sell my home, and countered that if I don't sell and he has to then he is the one taking the biggest risk.

So I'm at a total loss as what to do now. I've told him I need to think about what I want to do now, if anything.

OP posts:
wellaloevera · 07/05/2019 15:07

Oh and he also said he could potentially just buy a place for him and his kids and we carry on as before. Which kind of destroys the idea of actually living together. But there we go.

OP posts:
Ninkaninus · 07/05/2019 15:12

TBH I don’t think his attitude regarding his children is a bad one. I agree that fathers should pay half of the cost of housing and raising their children. So I’m not going to see that as a dig, I’m going to see that as taking his responsibility as a father very seriously. Good on him, and very rare that a man is truly honourable to that extent.

I don’t think you should buy with him. Keep your own place.

Innernutshell · 07/05/2019 15:35

Oh and he also said he could potentially just buy a place for him and his kids and we carry on as before.

Would be interesting to find out if he actually would do this or it's just a ploy to get you to toe the line op.

Tell him to go ahead and then leave it a while... I bet he'll be back with a different idea before you can unpack your bag.

MsPavlichenko · 07/05/2019 15:56

Again, living together is not always thr way forward. You have years ahead to do that. If you can be reasonably close to each other, with a bit more space communally at his it can work. Holidays together etc. Really time goes so quicky. Before you know it the DC will be teenagers/ able to be at home alone the odd night etc.

It may be of course he is not as committed as you but it is worth considering.

thatwouldbeanecumenicalmatter · 07/05/2019 16:02

He wasn't pleased that I said I'm having to take the biggest risks if I sell my home, and countered that if I don't sell and he has to then he is the one taking the biggest risk.

Read: He wasn't pleased that I'd rumbled his plan - the one that was risk but good enough for me but not his royal highness. The bloody cheek of him.

Well done for having the talk with him. Definitely stay put, in light of what he said /his attitude I personally wouldn't be keen to still be in a relationship with him. Graspy git.

bamboofibre · 07/05/2019 16:02

Scrap the living together. It doesn't work for you and it's not necessary, either. Nice idea but it can wait till all your kids are older, too. It is never worth giving up your financial security to move in with some bloke, especially when you have kids to support.