Is moving in together supposed to be this complicated?

[wellaloevera]

I’ve reached a bit of an impasse with my DP and could really use some advice on what to do next please.

We’ve been together for 3 and a half years, taken things really slow as both of us are divorced and we have three kids between us (ages 6-10). Time spent together has increased naturally to the point where we spend almost every night at his place or mine both with and without kids. We’ve discussed the future, and although neither of us wants more children or to get married, we would like to live together.

He owns his flat outright, I own mine with a mortgage. Neither of our homes are big enough to house all of us together. He has never rented and doesn’t want to so we’ve been looking for a place to buy.

But here is the tricky bit. In order to finance the kind of house we need (i.e. each kid having their own bedroom) we will have to sell one of our properties. We’re in a position to keep one, and have agreed that should things go wrong at least one of us will be able to move out into the other property. However, which property we sell is the tough bit. Mine is my only asset, it’s solely in my name, I was lucky to be able to buy it and having had to move so many times in the fallout of my divorce I’m reluctant to sell up. Although admittedly I don’t have the cashflow to be an effective landlord if we kept mine. As for his place, the financial order he has with his ex-wife has a ‘clause’ in it that states that should he stop paying the mortgage on the family home, his place would then belong to her. If he sells his place and buys another home, this clause is automatically transferred, and having his ex-wife’s name on a property I would be living in makes me nervous (she can be very difficult).

We’ve agreed that we’ll draw up a legal agreement so that our assets are protected should we split and should one of us die, our respective children will get the share. However this does leave me nervous about where I would end up if this happens – if we split or he dies I would have to move again and if I don’t have my current property to fall back on, I’ll be back in the same situation I was in when I got divorced.

At the same time, finances are not going to change for either of us for a long time, so even if we leave it for now we will be in same position in a year, or two, or four… and although I’m not in a rush, packing a bag etc for every visit is getting tiresome. He's also stressing as he really wants to give his kids their own rooms (at the moment they share at his). And the cynical part of me worries that his main driving force for moving is that, and not because he actually really wants to live together. If we can’t work something out it’s leaving me wondering if we really have a future.

I hope this makes sense, could use some thoughts if anybody has any!

I'm confused re his own situation - so if he was made redundant and couldn't afford the mortgage for a couple of months, she'd have his flat?

I'm divorced and would never give up my home for anyone. It's such security. I'd let it out and buy somewhere together but would always want my own place.

Couldn't he take out a small mortgage for the deposit?

Please, Don’t do it. I’m sorry to be cynical but really, honestly, look after yourself and your child. Always, always keep that security in place for yourself.

Your gut is already warning you to be careful. Listen to it.

Your concerns and doubts about his motivations speaks volumes to me

It’s a hassle atm and you’re looking for a solution. This isn’t it

Two girls close in age do not need their own rooms that are only used a few days per month. Can he not sell up and give his exW a lump sum to free himself of ties to her?
If he wants to live with you for your relationship he has to compromise or is he just after your ££ for his big house?

Don't buy with him
his reasons for not renting seemed a bit 'entitled', "I don't want to because I've never had to and I don't want to"

Rent for a year. Easier to get out if it goes wrong. Juggling 3 dc and his exw may not be a doddle op.

I think in any new domestic situation it’s prudent to rent or have an easy way out for the first year or so.

Can he not sell up and give his exW a lump sum to free himself of ties to her?

This
Sounds like the dw got a good deal
I'm assuming this was to protected in case he did a bunk
Or stoped paying maintenance
Etc.

But I would wait till that agreement ended or changed.

Also I feel that maybe you're not ready for living together yet.

That's fine I felt the same after my divorce. Wait a bit longer.

And when you ready and any ties to ex w are cut BUY s lovely big house for you all.

God luck x

He might “own” the flat but he doesn’t have any equity in it. This belongs to his ex wife until he pays he that plus a bit more. His net worth is less than zero.

I am struggling to understand how or why he got himself into this mess and why his ex agreed to it. Any divorce would have been about a split of net assets. So how come he owes her more than that?

The answer to your question is no, it doesn’t need to be this complicated. Both he and his ex had made it so. You will never be free of the shit they generate because they won’t break free of each other. And there will always be a reason why, even though every other divorced couple manage to resolve it

Financially he is bringing no capital to the relationship but he wants a big house out of it. Life doesn’t work that way and he is taking advantage of you and your equity to get a home. He otherwise can’t afford. He just has debt which he is dressing up as something else.

I would be wary of the fact that he has two children and you have one, this already gives him an opportunity to claim that his needs outweigh yours, for example he would like his children to have a bedroom each just like yours child does, that means that a 4 bedroomed house is required rather than a 3 bedroomed house.
Not that this is unreasonable, it wouldn't be fair if your child had his own room and his children don't, but it still means that his needs outweigh yours

The fact that he is forever tied to his wife like this implies a tacit agreement to forever be struggling with her

Keep both of your properties, rent them out and then rent somewhere together.

If he won't consider it, there's your answer.

Do not involve yourself with him financially with that financial order in place.

I would rent together first in any new relationship let alone one as complicated as yours. Don’t do anything drastic. His finances are for him to sort out. You’ve offered to rent with him, he doesn’t want that, that’s his call. Leave it at that.

I think you are wise to gave that Frank conversation OP. There seems to be an awful lot to lose here for you and I would protect my assets at all costs. This is especially true when his attitude is what it is re: renting. You could easily live together this way but he seems to be pushing for financial benefit. I wonder would he be so steadfast about buying if your property divisions were the other way around?

There isn't always a resolution to everything in life unfortunately. If he gets to veto certain things, then so do you. For me, selling my only financial asset and facing future legal nightmares if we split would be sufficient for me to veto that. If it doesn't work financially it's off the table it's not your job to force it to work because he would prefer it. I would understand completely if I had a DP in your position saying this, and would be happy to rent together, especially since you've not lived together before. I love my DP and would want to protect his investment, not make my legal and financial issues his burden or responsibility. Any other reaction is a red flag IMO.

Alarm bells are ringing here. This doesn't seem like a good deal for you in any way. I would stay put for now and keep your asset and your independence.

It's a real ballache MsPavlichenko having to pack stuff up to go to his without forgetting things is pretty annoying, plus both places get pretty crowded with 5 of us.

Can't you leave stuff at his?

Do his children live with their mother? If so, why do they need a room each? If not, why can't she work to pay her own mortgage?

Op, I took my relationship really slowly with Ex, very little red flags (at the time) but looking back he was not in a good financial position and I had an almost mortgage free house.
When we married and bought a house together I realised he knew he was getting the better end of the deal. A divorce years later he was vicious about the money and I lost out significantly.
Never,ever underestimate someone's motivation, no matter how well you think you know them. Plan on him being an utter bastard if you needed to split up.

You want to be together is emotional and I understand that but it is high risk for you. Don't let emotions cloud sound financial investments, especially as you have a young child.

I think you need complete clarity on his finances and agreement with Ex. I just can't see how the Ex "has" his flat. Courts really don't like that approach.. mesher order, yes but that should work in his favour.
Has he showed you the consent order? If not be cautious. Also if his Ex is difficult there is probably a long back story which might not put him in a good light.

I know you talk of packing bags but surely duplicate stuff at houses would be cheaper. Could you extend your house? He could then pay you rent equal to the additional mortgage needed?

This situation doesn't feel right and from experience don't jump through hoops to make this work..stay put until you are sure you have explored every avenue and you have seen all finances

I can honestly see your dilemma but a couple of other things to think about:-

• your current home is only an asset if it has equity in it. You can safeguard the equity when you buy. Indeed if you don't then the mortgage company usually asks you to formally sign it away. So when we got married I had to formally say I understood I was 'losing' 50% of the the equity because I potentially was. You can do the opposite and keep an appropriate share of the house(
• you need to consider wills / trusts carefully with independent advice from your DP;
• you will need to understand the position re the flat as part of seeking a joint mortgage. Do not sign the mortgage unless you do because any problems as it's as much on you as him unless you can prove he deceived you. I didn't understand it isn't a defence.

If I'm honest I'm a little with your DP that renting is potentially a costly business so would only very reluctantly consider it. It doesn't necessarily safeguard you at all financially. You arguably 'lose' x pounds instead. You still likely to need quite a big cash sum - deposit, x amount up front, if unfurnished then you need it furnish either it or the home you are renting out.

The bedrooms meaning a bigger house - again I think he is right. In our family someone close to use moved twice. Bedrooms both time for his new partners children who they had 50% of the time. At first his daughter was supposed to share with resident daughter but was always in her space not shared space. There relationship only just survived the lack of parity. The relationship between step mum and step daughter hasn't.

And, yes.... moving in with blended families should always in some ways be this hard. If not buying your first home it's always more complicated. This is hard because you are absolutely doing the right thing by thinking it all through. It's terribly unromantic but also worrying that some people put more research into their next car than think through what happens if they break up or if - and hard to think about - what happens when one or them dies and how the estate will then work.

And, yes.... moving in with blended families should always in some ways be this hard
This^^

Thanks for all the comments (sorry was on the school run!). To answer a few things:

Hearhear This is one of my concerns aswell.
HollowTalk Yes if he was made redundant and couldn't pay the mortgage, she would get his home. The small mortgage as a deposit is something I hadn't thought of so will add that to my list of things to discuss.
Bookworm He could sell and give a lump sum to her but it wouldn't be enough to cover the remaining mortgage.
Robin2323 That's exactly why the clause exists. The tie to the ex-wife isn't likely to be cut for many years, as the amount on the family mortgage is still high.
LemonTT I wasn't on the scene during their divorce but its my understanding the ex-wife had a very good solicitor while his was not so good. As far as I can tell he's at a disadvantage financially as a result and unable to move on and unwilling to take it back to court. You're right that it is a debt dressed up as something else.
Eliza9919 There isn't anywhere for me to leave things at his. Not even a drawer. He has a drawer at mine but there isn't any other space I'm able to give either. His kids live with their Mum when not with him and have their own rooms there. She doesn't work and has no intention to, the combination of spousal/child maintenance and her long-term boyfriend are enough to keep her comfortable.
lifebegins No I havn't seen the consent order. But I have met the ex many times and the breakup was due to her cheating on him. Extending my house isn't really possible as I have a small place and a tiny courtyard garden, sadly.
NVQM I agree with you and having rented I know how expensive it is. Bit of a catch-22 here. I'm trying to be very careful having been burnt before. The plus point is that my DC gets on very well with DP and his DC which is great to see.

Thank you for those telling me my gut is correct here. I was wondering if I was unnecessarily worried so in many ways its good to know my red flag radar is working!

Not living together ( at the moment) also allows you both time with your own DC. For his especially surely this is a consideration given it's eow? You can still have holidays together, and other shared time. The years fly by with DC, and you'll have years ahesd to be living together if you want.

But, your concerns, and his dismissal of your suggestion re renting are red flags and you are wise to take stock. Did you get counselling/ do FP after your abusive relationship? If not, worth considering now maybe.

I completed the Freedom Programme and have had lots of counselling since my abusive relationship, so I'm a lot wiser to it now. But like many things it starts in childhood so can be a tough nut to crack!

My own DC is only away from me EOW so I get plenty of 1-1 time anyway, but we do day activities apart with the children on a regular basis anyway. The plan would be to stick to that kind of thing even if we all lived together. I'm conscious that they need time with their Dad as do I with my own DC.

Agree re it being a tough nut to crack! Can still impact on my thought proceeses years later.

The 1 to 1 time won't be the same with your DC though when you are full time together. I'm not saying don't do it btw. Just saying that it can work another way.

Truthfully, I wouldn’t do it. If there wasn’t such an entanglement with his ex-wife and finances with the apartment and house et al it would be easier but that is just too much. With spousal, CMS, mortgage how much does he have to contribute to the “family” coffers?

How would it work when you purchased a home together and her name had to be added to cover the court order?

It seems like such negatives for you and no positives. If you ha e to sell and or re-mortgage yours, what financial security are you getting from this?

Also, regarding sharing a room, the big difference is her child would be with them 75 percent of the time if not more whereas his children would be there 25 percent or so of them time. It ends being a huge difference. Sharing for a weekend versus sharing for weeks on end is a huge difference. My boys have individual rooms at my house and have always shared at their dads. They would be at each other so much more if they shared at my house. At their dad he has them 25 percent give or take so it’s survivable. It’s also it’s solely for sleeping. At mine it’s for hanging out, storing their goods etc.

I would seriously look at this and question if this is feasible at all. I own my mortgaged home and would not buy with a man in this position at all. I actually think it’s partky why I am still single…