Am I abusive or does he just want to divorce

[lavenderhedgehog]

Husband of many years keeps stating that I am abusive to him and if I don't stop it immediately he is leaving.

My head is in a mess because I thought that whilst I have been extremely unfair and probably hurtful to him the past couple years at times, I do not think I have been actually abusive.

I keep swinging between wondering if he is right and feeling awful, and then thinking hang on this is bad but not abusive.. so why is he saying this

I have a long term medical condition which affects my looks in a big way (think losing most of my hair, putting on weight), and I have been really down about this since it started 2 years ago. The reasons he says I am abusive is because I often push him away ie don't want to be intimate (because I just feel gross) , and I will say things to him like "you don't fancy me" - I don't say these things for fun or to hurt him, I genuinely believe no one could fancy me given how I look now. If he says he does then I don't call him a liar or anything, but it's pretty obvious I don't believe he could. He tells me that me continuing to 'accuse' him of not fancying me is abusive.

He really centres on the term 'abusive' in all of this, states I am abusing him almost every other sentence if we argue face to face or over text.

My question is, am I abusive??

He is gaslighting you. Divorce him you deserve better. 💐

Does he feel that you say these things to get a reaction?

I know that when I was with my ex he would ask the same thing over and over, to try and get the only answer he wanted to hear. I got 'do you fancy me?' Or 'do you fancy your boss' all the time.

He actually would keep pushing and pushing. He wanted me to admit that I didn't fancy him and did fancy my boss. It would have crushed him, but is self esteem was so low, he believed it to be true and just wanted me to admit it.

He has said that he feels that I say it to 'justify' my 'self hatred', and that the only answer I will be happy with is him saying he doesn't fancy me, and that I don't listen when he says he does and I am completely dismissing his feelings in favour of self hatred.

I suppose he is right . But the thing is, and I am being completely serious here it's not body dysmorphia or anything, I DO look awful. I don't suit the bald look, only wigs I've tried that don't look ridiculous are way out of my price range, and the rest of me is not terrible but not great, though the hair thing bothers me the most. I am not just saying this, I KNOW I look awful. My family have all but said it as well (trying to be tactful), and I get comments and laughs from strangers. In my head I suppose I am a bit angry at him for not saying it yes, because I really don't believe could be attracted to me.

I don't say it all the time no, but shamefully I do say it most times we are about to be intimate, because it makes me really uncomfortable to be intimate when I feel so unattractive. I rarely every say it in general though, so it's not constant.

I really can't work out if I am actually being abusive, or he is portraying it as abuse cause he wants out as we have not been getting on for ages about this and he is fed up (and it would be 'unkind' to leave me when I am suffering with this hair loss and illness and so he wants to paint me as abusive) , or maybe he perceives it as abusive but it's not?? no idea

He sounds like a total dick, making it all about himself when you are the one suffering. Pushing you to be intimate with him when you don't want to is horrible, you shouldn't have to put up with that

There's more to this than you're telling us isn't there? Did you not get the answers you wanted go hear last time you posted?

Your self image issues are understandable, but you're deflecting them onto him. That's not fair.

Is it abusive? Think about if a female friend was telling you this story, with her husband being the one saying the things you say. What would you tell her?

Na, it's not abusive. You're not withholding to manipulate or control him.

I can understand why your DH would feel like that though, as he'll be feeling very frustrated and upset.

Tomtontom I am not sure what you mean about there being more to it , could you explain what you mean please?? Yes I have posted about it before recently, it wasn't about getting answers I 'wanted', just about trying to unpick it and getting perspectives because I feel it is far too emotionally loaded and I am too close to it to make sense of it any more. It's just destroying our relationship in a big vicious cycle.

In one way I DO want to be intimate, I really miss it if we don't. In another way though, I hate it, because I feel at all attractive and it ruins the mood and I get really paranoid he is put off.

I don't know if I'd view it as abusive if a friend was telling me this about her husband - I don't think I would no, but then I don't know much about abuse.

It's not a choice to be this way. If it were I'd have stopped/overcome it. It devastates me every day to look in the mirror and not recognise the person staring back, and to endure nasty comments from people who think they are funny, and to not be able to ever look put together as I'd like to. I keep explaining to my H that I cannot just snap and suddenly 'feel attractive' or even have it not bother me, when I just don't and it does. So many times I've announced (to myself) right!! this is it, I am going to be confident and not care!! but in reality it lasts about an hour, I just cannot

I know it's unfair to him. And if it is indeed abusive then I either have to find a way to stop it very very soon, or else I need to leave him as I do not want to abuse him..

He has said that he feels that I say it to 'justify' my 'self hatred', and that the only answer I will be happy with is him saying he doesn't fancy me, and that I don't listen when he says he does and I am completely dismissing his feelings in favour of self hatred.

Then I would say, yes it can be abusive. You will only be happy when you push him to give you the answer you want. You want him to confirm that he feels the same about you, that you do and wont be happy until he does.

But then you will be miserable that he said it. Whether he means it or not you will believe it. If he tries to take it back and explains it's because you never listened before, deep down you will always think that's how he really feels.

You are trying to make him give you a particular answer and wont believe him until his answer is acceptable to you.

He loves you. That goes way beyond his you look.
Can you not just turn the lights off, and go with the moment?

You're playing with fire if you let this go on (when you do want to be intimate)

If he suddenly lost all his hair/gained a load of weight/got hideously disfigured even... would it stop you loving him? Wanting him?

I think hes probably quite insulted and hurt that you presume him so shallow.

I wouldn't call it abusive but I would say you need to work on your self esteem. Saying things like "you don't fancy me" can be really draining, he probably feels pressured that he needs to be constantly reassuring you.

He has been married to you for years. He loves you. He obviously fancies you if he wants to be intimate with you.

Can you afford counselling?

My ex husband used to offer to pay for tattoos to cover up my ugly back surgery scars. They never bothered me until he kept trying to get them covered up. I refused and became very aware how disfigured I appeared to him.

After some time with my new partner, I asked him if my scars bothered him, and he said "what scars?"

He honestly never noticed and then asked me if his large scar on his neck bothered me and I realized that I had never noticed it.

Perhaps he doesn't see what you see but sees the woman he loves and doesn't care about the outside but loves you and only sees that you are the person he keeps fighting to be with.

There's a big difference between saying "I feel really ugly" and saying "You don't fancy me". If you say the first, you're asking for comfort or just generally complaining aloud. As long as you don't say it all day every day, you're inviting a protective response; he gets to play the role of the lovely husband who comforts you. If you say the second, it sounds like you're accusing him of thinking bad things about you, and you'll get this kind of defensive response. You're putting him in the role of the horrible husband who's almost as bad as the people laughing at you on the street.

Go and get help from a therapist, your GP and a beautician.

And do so even if it isn't abusive, as it may not be the textbook definition of abusive, but it's horrible. My bf is balding and fat, with dreadful teeth, but I find him attractive. If every time I tried to cuddle him he said that I didn't fancy him ... well, he probably wouldn't have become my bf in the first place.

I wouldn’t say you’re abusive, that’s a very strong term. But you are being unfair to him, and even if that comes from your own low self esteem insecurity that doesn’t make it okay to keep needling him repeatedly looking for an answer you’ll react really bad to, disbelieving him when he answers truthfully. If a man were constantly doing this to his wife nobody would say it was acceptable to continue because of his insecurity. They’d tell him he needs to improve his self esteem and take ownership of the actual root of the problem, how he feels about himself, instead of tangling his wife up by asking the same questions or making the same accusations over and over again.

He literally can’t win you see. Either he says he fancies you and you call him a liar, or he admits he doesn’t find you as attractive anymore and you understandably blow up.

I would strongly recommend you access some therapy, be that counselling for adjustment to your new appearance or CBT for low self esteem before you wreck your relationship. Tell your partner you’ve realised you’re being unfair towards him, you’re sorry and you are going to try and work on it yourself.

I had a partner like you once, I thought he was utterly gorgeous and he was convinced he was ugly. I can’t tell you how large the wedge was it forced in between us for every single compliment to be rejected with ‘no I’m not’ ‘stop lying’ etc. And he wasn’t even doing the trying to catch me out thing you’re doing.

So no, I don’t believe you’re abusing him. But I can certainly see why he’d feel aggrieved, like he’s being called a liar, and sick of it, and perhaps ‘abusive’ is the only term he knows to fit what it feels like to him.

Keep this up and you’ll ruin your relationship. He’s giving you a chance here to see what you’re doing to the relationship and to amend things before it’s too late. Take it.

I wouldn't say you are being abusive. But these are the messages you are repeatedly giving him when all he wants is intimacy with the woman he loves:

You can't possibly fancy me - you just need a shag and I'm the nearest hole
You're a liar
You must be some kind of pervert if you want sex with me
Nobody normal would want me so you're not normal
You're a shallow arsehole who can't possibly see the beauty in me
etc etc

It's fine to ask for reassurance. But he's given you that over and over and you're still effectively calling him a liar. Borderline abusive? Maybe. Bloody fucking annoying and eventually soul-destroying, for definite.

Get some help for both of you. You can't afford not to. Divorce is bloody expensive.

To me it sounds like he still loves you but is totally frustrated with the situation. You need to adapt your communication styles to make each other feel secure and wanted, not pushed away.

Thank you so much for everyone who has taken the time to respond so far, it is really helping me get perspectives.

Re turning off the lights, that is something I suggested to him - following a camping trip where I felt a lot better when it was quite dark - that I am only comfortable doing things in a very dull light. He moaned a bit and grumbled, but I don't think he would completely hate that. Only (and major) problem is that we work shifts and also the DC , means that 95% of any opportunity to be alone in peace is during the daytime. I even bought a blackout blind for this purpose, told him it's cause the sun in the morning but I think he guessed why, but means we can only do it in one room during the day.

If he changed majorly in a physical sense, I wouldn't stop loving him at all. I wouldn't find him unattractive and would still want to be intimate. Although if I'm being 100% honest, some things would put me off a bit, but not enough to not want him. He did look at me strangely a few times when I first lost my hair which suggested it does put him off a bit. He has developed a degree of (not complete) ED which his GP said is due to age added to smoking and blood pressure. Of course I think it's cause he is unattracted to me (although I haven't mentioned the ED and he only has once when he went to GP), and that really isn't helping. The ED is making things even more awkward and emotionally loaded for both of us. I know that men are sensitive about this so fear of I say much it might just make things worse, but it's making me feel even uglier. He hasn't went back to GP either because technically it's not full ED.

Unfortunately no way we could afford counselling. I want to get a decent wig, only the ones £400+ look anywhere near real on me when I tried lots on, and even that I'll have to save for a year for. I have been having counselling on the NHS though individually, but no result yet, even though I am trying to counteract negative thought patterns.

I know it's so unfair to him, I know it's unacceptable. But somehow I am stuck in the belief that he finds me unattractive now just is too kind to say it, and that he will eventually leave me for someone who is 'normal', and I have to prepare myself for that, or at the least that I'll never be good enough. I really believe this deep down, try as I may I cannot shift this belief, and it's been 2 years. And I worry also about work, if I ever have to change jobs will I face (indirect) discrimination in finding work. I never felt any of these things before.

Maybe the way forward is to try to hide these feelings from him at least so it doesn't impact on him. Perhaps that's all I can do.

"You can't possibly fancy me, you just need a shag and I'm the nearest hole" - Yes, in addition to me not believing he could fancy me, and having resigned myself to him eventually leaving me for someone 'normal' , I have also thought the above statement many a time and have said it in as many words before ..

Neither of us are good communicators. But we've always muddled through despite being terrible communicators, because we love each other, but this is really testing us to the limit and without good communication is going round in circles and could be the end. Don't want that. But still that doesn't magically make me feel anything other than gross and ugly

You can't possibly fancy me, you just need a shag and I'm the nearest hole
If my DP said that to me, I'd be very very hurt. You're making him sound shallow and unloving for trying to sleep with you.
To hurt someone over and over again like this is abusive.imo.

I think my actual words were you can't possibly fancy me anymore, it's just because we are together and by default I'm the only person you can have sex with.

But yes, it sounds awful when I think about it..

I can see why getting a wig would be so important to your self esteem. I think it would be for mine. Could you not get a credit card and pay for the wig and then pay off the card with the money you would have saved? My hair costs me about £85 every 2 months so the cost of hair cuts would soon cover the price of the wig.

He shouldn't be throwing the term "abuse" around like he does. Its misusing and trivializing the term. You aren't being abusive.

"it's just because we are together and by default I'm the only person you can have sex with. "

On the other hand this was unfair to say to him. Its illogical too. He could go masturbate to porn. He could even go cheat on you. He must be attracted to you if he still wants sex with you.

I think you both need to just learn to watch what you way around each other a bit.

Unfortunately neither of us have any way of getting a credit card. We are both working on minimum wage, high rent costs and bills and on universal credit top ups (previously tax credits) which screw us over most months by either seeing our wages as double due to our payment dates clashing with their assessment periods - think it went to court recently - and giving us nothing or refusing to pay properly the percentage of childcare they are meant to, so basically my whole wage goes on childcare at the moment until the youngest is around secondary school age. We have debts being paid off and are literally too skint to afford anything other than bills and even then it's just robbing peter to pay paul. I am saving up £10 a week for a year to get a decent wig (have tried them on but couldn't afford) which will hopefully help my confidence, and hopefully we can afford it as a regular saving, but I fear my marriage will be over by then.. I haven't had a haircut in 3 years due to how bad it looks and how thin it is there is no point.

Scott72 Yes that's what I think - that he is throwing around the term 'abusive' constantly and too flippantly. Although I could be totally wrong and I am abusive. Who knows. I know I am being unfair and need to get a grip, but it just seems impossible that he isn't lusting after 'normal' women..

I find it impossible I mean..

I can’t believe some of the replies on here, of course the OP is being emotionally abusive, it’s abusive because she continually puts her husband in a no win situation & then uses it as a stick to beat him with even though he has done nothing wrong.

The OP says that deep down she knows her husband isn’t attracted her, fair enough, so why in that case, does she keep asking him the same question if she feels she already knows the answer & is not going to believe a word he says? The only reason is to cause an argument & take her feelings of self hatred out on him.

The OP periodically brings up the same question over & over again & has admitted that she gets angry with her husband for not giving her the answer she wants. What’s her husband supposed to do? When he reassures her, supports her, tells her he does find her attractive (which may well be the truth) she gets angry & makes it obvious she doesn’t believe him & yet if he did come out & say, yes he doesn’t find her attractive, she’d be on here crying about her husband being cruel because of her illness & everyone would call him a cunt etc.

Op’s Husband is in a no win situation no matter what he says or does.

Also I have no doubt that OP is minimizing or genuinely can’t see what she’s doing to her husband. I’ve been in an emotionally abusive relationship & I could tell when it was going to be “one of those days” & he was going to start one of these no win arguments that would make me the bad guy no matter what. Basically he would be frustrated about his health (just like the OP) & then take those frustrations out on me.

I don't know about abusive, honestly hard to say. But clearly very hard to live with one way or the other. It sounds to me like he does love you and wants to show you physical affection, but you are so caught up in believing he can't love you the way you are that you push him away.

I expect the use of 'abusive' is born of frustration, though it's not quite fair of him to use it.

It honestly sounds like, far more than a better wig, what you need is to be able to see your worth beyond your appearance and learn to love that. Easy to say, I know.

I hope you can find some solution to help yourself and your marriage.