Am I abusive or does he just want to divorce

[lavenderhedgehog]

Husband of many years keeps stating that I am abusive to him and if I don't stop it immediately he is leaving.

My head is in a mess because I thought that whilst I have been extremely unfair and probably hurtful to him the past couple years at times, I do not think I have been actually abusive.

I keep swinging between wondering if he is right and feeling awful, and then thinking hang on this is bad but not abusive.. so why is he saying this

I have a long term medical condition which affects my looks in a big way (think losing most of my hair, putting on weight), and I have been really down about this since it started 2 years ago. The reasons he says I am abusive is because I often push him away ie don't want to be intimate (because I just feel gross) , and I will say things to him like "you don't fancy me" - I don't say these things for fun or to hurt him, I genuinely believe no one could fancy me given how I look now. If he says he does then I don't call him a liar or anything, but it's pretty obvious I don't believe he could. He tells me that me continuing to 'accuse' him of not fancying me is abusive.

He really centres on the term 'abusive' in all of this, states I am abusing him almost every other sentence if we argue face to face or over text.

My question is, am I abusive??

Tinkety I'm sorry you were in an abusive relationship. And I feel terrible that I cannot stop seem to stop this.. I really do not choose to feel this way, but I understand it is terrible for my H.

He does say that I am using my baldness as a 'stick to beat him with' , and that every time someone makes a comment or laughs at me in the street, at work, or in the playground etc , that I take it out on him, believing he thinks the same way as them..

Believe it or not I am not on here to get sympathy despite how difficult this has been for me as a person.. I genuinely want to change how the way I view myself and others view me from impacting in my marriage, but I am finding it impossible. The last thing I want to do is abuse him. We have not had the perfect marriage by any means.. no violence but many hard periods caused by family stress, financial stress, bereavment etc.. but if I am abusing him and cannot stop then yes I agree it it unfair for him for us to continue

The word abusive gets thrown around a lot these days, not always correctly. Maybe he just grabbed that word as it expressed his frustration at the situation?

What's the worst that can happen if you let go and choose to believe he fancies you, even the tiniest bit, for one day? The worst is that you make yourself vulnerable to him and then discover that he doesn't fancy you (he expresses repulsion or walks away or something). That's where you are already at in your head. You have nothing to lose. And if he does that you can pack his bags and walk away vindicated. I don't think it'll happen though.

Obviously if you have no desire for intimacy with him then please don't. But you sound like its fear holding you back. Does he think you're the hottest thing he's ever laid eyes? Maybe not, but that isn't what a loving relationship is about. The bit that keeps you together is your bond as a couple, and appearance has very little to do with that when you are in love. It does have to be maintained and looked after though.

Whatever you do, I really hope you can find some peace with yourself as you sound so down. Your body is just a tool to live your life through, it isn't who you are

He's in a no win situation and I understand why he feels you're being abusive to him.

He's known you for a number of years and there's more to fancying someone than their looks.

It's your attitude that will drive him away, then you'll say he was just looking for an excuse to leave.

Like I said, he's between a rock and a hard place.

Thanks,

Yes I suppose/think I am really fearful of him just saying he is still attracted to me but is not really, me letting go and believing him, and then him rejecting me in the near or distant future, because of my lack of hair. I'd feel like a fool.

My attitude at the moment is surely driving him away though that is true.

It is difficult when the original attraction (right at the very start, when we had barely spoken to each other, way back 13+ years ago) was physical, then emotional, and was maintained all these years due to our love, we obviously got older and less pert etc, but I was still 'normal' and felt good 'enough' compared to other women - until now.

I think I am so fearful and jealous he will fancy other women with hair more, automatically, and there is nothing I can do about that.. it's like I am trying to preempt it.

lavender having read my post back I’m sorry if it’s overly harsh, it’s just so much of what you’ve said has triggered me as I was in your husband’s situation.

My ex has an autoimmune condition & the medications he was on caused him to lose his hair including eyebrows / eyelashes & to gain weight in certain areas only (so not evenly distributed iyswm) & as a result, he suffered with self esteem issues & couldn’t stand to look at himself in the mirror. My ex also got laughed at, called names & had people saying nasty things like asking him when the baby was due etc.

I absolutely loved my ex & my heart broke for him but instead of letting me be there for him, letting me support him, letting me love him, he would turn on me & take all his frustrations out on me. In his head, if he thought he was unattractive & if random people on the street thought he was unattractive then I must do to & he used it as an excuse to push me away.

I always knew when an argument was coming & it got to the point where I was nervous a wreck & was constantly walking on eggshells because I didn’t want to set him off. My ex constantly accused me of not fancying him & thought I’d leave him for someone “normal” so I’d do things like change TV channels or keep my eyes down in public in case he thought I was looking at “attractive” men etc.

The last straw came when we were walking down a street & a guy yelled “how did you pull her” from a car & I knew that was it, I was in for it when we got home & right enough he started a massive argument with me.

I understood that the illness was at the root of everything but abuse is still abuse & there was only so much I could take. I was utterly broken by the end because I didn’t know what to do, it was outside triggers causing these episodes, not anything I had actually done so I didn’t know how to fix it. It was then that I realized that actually, I couldn’t fix it because I wasn’t the problem, it was his attitude & self hatred causing everything. Unfortunately my ex couldn’t see / would minimize what he was doing to me though & would use his illness as a get out of jail free card.

The sad thing is, in the end he did become unattractive to me but not because of his physical appearance but because of how his personality had changed & the ugly way he treated me.

Tinkety No, it's OK, thank you for your posts and contribution. Your last post sums it up for me really.
The illness I have is lupus, and it has robbed me of most of my hair which is important for a woman, the medications have side effects such as weight gain around the middle (although it's not too bad) and tiredness and bad joint pain and doubting my professional life.
Reading your post, I completely understand that I have become a different person due to this, like your ex - someone I don't want to be . I so, so want to overcome this and be positive, just wish I could do it ): ): The walking on eggshells thing I can recognise - we are both walking on egg shells. You have helped me actually, thank you.

OP I know you get it.

But to all the posters saying it's not abuse but you are bullying him, trying to force an opinion out of him, backing him into a corner, wearing him down, soul destroying, putting him in a no win situation

That is abuse.

Is he helping you with the saving for the wig? You say you're saving £10, and I wasn't sure if you meant you alone or you as a couple. Is he helping/trying to make it easier for you to save for it? If it was something that important to a partner, I would be.

We have set bills we each pay according to our incomes. Because he is bad with money (just spends spends spends when he gets any), we have a system where we both pay into an account for bills and each have different bill responsibilities. He does pay his share.

Mine includes the food, and he has been bringing in extra food either that he bought or from his mother's work. So that has been helping indirectly to my saving for the wig, although I don't know if it's deliberate on his part or not.

We were fine on tax credits, but the universal credit system has been terrible for us. Every time our wages fall on certain dates, UC deem them to be doubled that month and that we don't need any top up (even though our wages and bills are the same as ever),and our council tax goes up inexplicably. I believe there is a court case going about this issue for people on uc. It's the difference between having just enough and maybe a little to treat the DC or to get the wig, and robbing peter to pay paul.

I have sensed some push back from him re me wearing wigs. His grandmother wore wigs at an elderly age which he says were obvious NHS ones and also his mum had to when she had cancer a few years ago, so this just makes me even more self consious that he sees me as his gran or mother .. He says I don't need wigs yet, but I really, really do - my hair is only about half left!! He also says that me wearing wigs 'doesn't bother' him 'in the slightest' - his words - but I do sense something. I need to do what I need to do though and I do need to cover somehow, for my own self.

The other thing that many people don't realise about wigs is that you need to replace them every year or so. They shed hair just like real hair, and because of no natural oils, go brittle after a while. I actually had a semi-argument with my family because they seemed to think I only needed one wig forever, so what was the problem, and it really doesn't work like that!! I am pale so the light colours only look anywhere near natural in real hair on me, which is at least £400 a year plus colouring every few months as they fade, and cutting once by an approved hairdresser.

The trouble with living with someone who has a tendency to attack is that you wait for the attack, day after day. Like Tinkety said, there are days you know it's going to happen. But there are also nice, normal, lovely days that will be completely ruined when your partner suddenly resents you for being happy and suspects it's nothing to do with them.

Obviously all relationships are different, but resentment from the bullying partner creates atmosphere so that even if nothing is said, you sense it and wait. The waiting is as bad as the abuse that finally comes. Nerves shred in the meantime and you wonder what it would be like to be alone instead, even if you desperately love the person who is hating you.

In your original post you admit being unfair to him and hurting him. If you admit this, why are you so taken aback that he feels abused? What is abuse to you? Why do his feelings not count when your feelings about your looks do?

OP I'm not sure if this is helpful or not, but my DM had a wig that she wore when she had very thin hair due to chemo - it was a bright purple bob!! She didn't try to hide the fact that it was a wig as everyone knew her situation, and just used it as an excuse to go all out, wear makeup and feel a bit glamorous even if it was a bit ott. But the fact that it was ott made it even more great - she had so many people coming up to her saying they absolutely loved it! She only wore it for certain occasions, for example going out for dinners or parents evening - I suppose instances when she felt she needed a bit of a 'boost'. The point is, it depends completely on your situation and personality, but wigs can be something to embrace as "I am who I am, and I'm going to rock this". If you're worried that a wig might not look real, then call people out in it! Yeah it's not real and so what, I feel fabulous! My DM always wore her wig with full on makeup - something she never normally did either, and thoroughly enjoyed being able to do something as "normal" as wearing makeup. I hope you figure everything out, I'm sorry I don't have much advice with your DH, but basically you do you - whatever makes you feel better is the most important thing. Sorry for the ramble!

You can get a wig cheaper than £400. I'm not sure what part of the country you live in, but I know bigger cities like London, Birmingham, Liverpool, Nottingham, Manchester would have shops that sell wigs.

His grandmother wore wigs at an elderly age which he says were obvious NHS ones and also his mum had to when she had cancer a few years ago, so this just makes me even more self consious that he sees me as his gran or mother

But he hast said that. You sensed some push back. He said it doesnt bother him, but you have decided again to listen to what he says, but made up your mind about what he means.

Even if there was push back, it doesnt mean he see you as a granny. 2 people in his life wore wigs. His grandmother when she was elderly and his mother when she had cancer. It's possible he associates them with people who might die and the worry around that.

But again, you have assumed that it must mean he sees you in a negative light.

I actually feel really sorry for both of you in this relationship. You feel dreadful about yourself and he knows he can't help you because whatever he says you can't bring yourself to believe him and that hurts his feelings.
You must both be completely drained, going round and round like this. You're hurting and that's causing you to hurt him.
He clearly still loves you, or he'd be long gone.
I don't blame you one bit for feeling so self conscious and insecure. It sounds like lupus has turned your world upside down. But you have a fella who loves you who is getting to the end of his tether.
By being kinder to yourself you'll be kinder to him by extension.
What's happened to you is neither of your faults. It's just another of life's crappy situations like having money worries, family issues etc. Try to see that there's a real love there between you and you can get through this as a couple as you've got through other problems together.
There has to be an online support group for people with lupus. I'd be looking for support from others who know exactly what you're going through and can share how they've handled it.

Just because you think your self hatred is justified it doesn’t mean you have the right to goad and manipulate your H into confirming it.

Your H has been unequivocal, stop using your self hatred as a stick to beat him with or risk him leaving. If you think your self hatred is bad now, wait to you push him into leaving, which could trigger a downward spiral.

I think going to your GP to access counselling could be a good start. Given your current financial position, a wig being the solution is just not feasible and maybe the unlikelyness of securing a wig is just more fuel to the self hatred fire.

OP you do need help because goading your H isn’t a strategy that benefits anyone.

What about doing a go-fund me or similar fund raising to get one? People do them for so many reasons and this seems as good if not better then som others I have seen.

@Tinkety, your second post was so open and helpful. I understand why you did your first post, your second post just showed OP why and how her behaviour is seen that way. So helpful for her and others.

In regards to your DH, he still chooses to be intimate with you. He could easily have an affair. Re ED, that could be unconsciously in the back of your mind think it’s your fault due to your looks. It’s not. His GP said it’s due to health. Time for him to work on that. Keep going to counseling. Work on the health aspects you can.

Re your hair, what about going completely bald if you don’t like how it looks? There is a woman who shaved her head off completely and she looked amazing. You may he surprised. I also like the idea of wearing fun wigs. Have some fun with it! It may do wonders for your self-esteem if you get some fun coloured ones and play around. Do it for yourself and fuck everyone else.

If your DH is spending money on shite when your tight with it time to reasses your budget. If he knows how important this is to you, maybe he should be putting in some money as well. Either way, if he is wasting money away, your budgets should be reassessed so that money can be used elsewhere instead of wasted away.

Thank you all so much again.

I suppose abuse to me is like physical, or if emotional, like name-calling, saying stuff like you are useless, controlling where they go or if they work etc.

That is a good question, why do I feel my issues about my looks count more than his feelings. I think I am just so consumed in this and the fact that I have to confront it every day and every day get mild panic before and during going out my house - if I can't wear a hat I literally scuttle about avoiding eye contact with everyone in the street, feeling exposed, and wondering when the next comment will come. It's something I can't just park for a while like other issues cause it's so visible iyswim, and I am really frustrated that I cannot seem to come to terms with it after years now. So I think it's cause I am consumed by it, and I'll admit I probably feel like I don't have room for his feelings

Re fun coloured wigs or rocking the bald look - I know people who have did each of these things, but much as I wish it was me, it just isn't me. I like to blend in.

I do have a couple of wigs, one was £230, and have tried on literally hundreds, and honestly the one ones which look even remotely realistic on me are £400+, I think it's possibly cause I'm really pale and synthetics can be shiny which looks good on some skin tones but not me. Day to day in winter I wear hats, in summer and at home headscarves (which also look awful on me, but not as bad as the patchy or bald look)

Hopefully soon I will have saved enough, but it's an ongoing expense so I will need to save x amount a week for the rest of my life I guess. Getting one will help the relationship in the sense that I'll feel more normal and confident, but don't know if he will find it weird.

We are both completely drained, yes. I don't want to feel sorry for myself though because you are right - I am hurting and therefore hurting him and it needs to stop. Just how I don't know. Been in counselling on NHS for ages way longer than the first given 12 week course.

I need to somehow stop saying these things to him at least. Even if I can't come to terms with it myself.

I suppose abuse to me is like physical, or if emotional, like name-calling, saying stuff like you are useless, controlling where they go or if they work etc.

I think that is what a lot of people think, who haven't been on the receiving end.

Perhaps you should do more research into it and its impact on people.

I have been on the receiving end in my previous relationship a long time ago though. My ex was badly sexually abusive, forcing and coercing and it's left scars where I sometimes clam up and freeze during sex.

I do understand what you mean though, I know very little of the emotional side. If I am abusive and I cannot change extremely soon, then I will leave because I do not want to abuse him.

OP, I think you pretty urgently need to try and do something to work on your self esteem before you wreck your relationship irreparably.

You can start here, the workbook. Print module 1, work through it. It’s free and very high quality self help CBT.

www.cci.health.wa.gov.au/Resources/Looking-After-Yourself/Self-Esteem

lavenderhedgehog I meant not in the end of this sort of abuse.

I think alot of abuse comes from the abusers low self esteem. Not all, obviously.

Before you leave him you need to give working on yourself, your all. It sounds like you do love eachother. But do you love him enough, to not make him feel like crap, because you feel bad about yourself

You still seem very concerned as to whether this is abuse or not.
To be clear, in my other post I wasn't saying it's not abuse. I was just saying that it makes no difference - even if it's "just" something your husband hates, of course you need to stop doing something to your husband that he hates.

I guess what you are saying, though, is that knowing it's abuse would be the kick up the arse you need to get your act together, and stop feeling sorry for yourself and saying you can't help it?

I absolutely sympathise with you about your hair - it's the one thing I've ever actually liked about my appearance and I am terrified of mine falling out. I would also look like total crap. But you are not going around telling your family that they must hate you, or your workmates or friends, I am guessing? You're managing to hold it together with some people? But you just feel that with your husband you don't (shouldn't?) have to make that effort?

One thing that struck me dating after divorce was that I was going out of my way to be nice to these men, to make them like me, and that really I could have tried to do that a bit more with my ex. Not that I was horrible to him, just that I realised how nice it was to be making that effort.

I am really fearful of him just saying he is still attracted to me but is not really, me letting go and believing him, and then him rejecting me in the near or distant future, because of my lack of hair. I'd feel like a fool.

Let's say these are your best and worse case futures:

Best case: Things gradually get better and you remain a couple.
Worst case: He leaves.

Now let's add your current behaviour.

If you treat him nicely now:
Best case: you remain a couple and he always looks back and remembers how hard it was for you; his heart goes out to you.
Worst case: He leaves, but you console yourself that you did your best. Other people are shocked at his bad behaviour.

If you treat him badly now:
Best case: You remain a couple and he always looks back and remembers what a cow you were.
Worst case: He leaves and you blame yourself. Other people are pleased for him.

Why would acting nicely make you feel like a fool? Surely acting badly would make you feel stupid?