He’s telling me loud and clear, isn’t he?

[NeverTakenSeriously]

Over a week ago, DH and I had - what I thought was - a pivotal, ‘shit really needs to change to save our marriage’ type conversation.
We agreed things needed to change in order for our marriage to stand a chance of survival, and straight after the chat, I felt (probably naively) quietly confident that I’d been heard and understood and the ball would get rolling regarding the things that had been mentioned.

One of the things was date nights. DH and I each have a small amount of ‘left over’ money after bills, food etc have been taken care of. DH went to a gig this month and spent a lot of money whilst he was out, that’s fine, I somewhat expected that. During our chat, I asked him if he had any money left to which he said ‘yes’. Great, I thought, he still has some money, and now that I’ve expressed the real importance of us having date days/nights he’ll put a small amount of it away for us to do something in a few weeks time, so that we can reconnect and have some fun. He got in from work the other day, and I noticed he’d bought himself something. When I asked if he had any money left after his purchase, he said no. So instead of thinking ‘I have this spare bit of cash which I could save for me and DW to use because she wants me to take her out and spend time with me after our conversation’, he instead chose to spend it on himself and now has no money for us to do anything until his next payday. I bit my lip, and I didn’t say anything else though I was obviously frustrated that once again, him buying something for himself took priority over us having money to do something together as we’ve had around 2-3 date days in the last two and a half years.

The second thing was therapy. DH has recently finished up 6 sessions of therapy to help combat his severe stonewalling which has been detrimental to our marriage in so many ways, but it’s evident the therapy hasn’t helped one iota, so I said to DH that he really needs more help and he agreed. He’s adamant he wants to learn to cope better with situations and conversations, and even said that his therapist had told him to contact her immediately if he felt he needed more sessions and she’d book him in for another 6 sessions if he wanted them. I mentioned that it was also a good idea for us to try couples therapy, and he should look for couples counsellors in our area.
This was all over a week ago. Last night I asked DH if he’d text his old therapist, or made a shortlist of couples therapists for us to look at, to which he said ‘no, he hasn’t had time’. I of course asked him how on earth he hasn’t had the time to spend 15 minutes on google or 20 seconds sending a text to his therapist, and he had nothing to say, just completely blanked me and kept looking at his phone (something I’m very used to but gets my blood boiling every single time he does it). I said that if I was in his shoes, I would’ve sorted this stuff out ASAP, but yet every single night that he gets in from work, he spends hours upon hours on Reddit, so yknow, priorities, right? He got up, angrily snarled ‘whatever, I’m going to bed’ (this was at about half 7....) and off he went.

Am I being unreasonable to think he would’ve had a few minutes in the last week to contact his therapist? Is it so crazy to think he should’ve been looking at couples counsellors for us after he said he would, has clearly had the time and it is crucial for us to see someone given our ‘this is make or break’ conversation.

His reaction last night combined with the lack of effort shown in the last week alone makes me feel like he’s just screaming that nothing is actually going to change and perhaps, I’m the one that’s asking for too much? That doing all we can to save our marriage comes second to browsing pointless memes on a phone all night or spending money on stupid shit that could be better used for a meal for us to enjoy together alone one evening.

I’m so tired of being the only one fighting for this marriage and acknowledging that we need serious help and commitment if we stand a chance of getting through our problems and coming out the other side a much stronger couple.

It must be very frustrating for you to be making all this effort and not getting anywhere. You can’t change someone else! You can only change how you react to them. I think a lot of us (women) over-interpret men’s actions or non-actions and should be kinder to ourselves. What’s more I certainly got into a cycle of only seeing the bad things and not the good things when I was in a similar situation.

It helped me to stop taking my husband’s behavior so personally which really gave time for me to calm down and then eventually making a mental note of every nice thing he did.

Your H only cares about getting his own needs met. He cares not for you and your efforts.

What are you getting out of this relationship now?. Something is keeping you within this so what is it?. Fear of him, fear of the unknown?.

What did you learn about relationships when you were growing up?.
Would you ever want your kids to have a relationship like this?.

And why have you been so over invested in keeping this sinking ship at all afloat?. These are all questions that you need to ask yourself because you seem mired in the sunken costs fallacy. All you've been doing is moving around the deckchairs while the ship still sinks.

I know I'm banging my head against a wall. Truthfully I know and understand everything everyone is saying to me, I just don't want to allow myself to fully believe or accept it.

I've held on for so, so long thinking that each time we have these 'make or break' conversations will be the time that he opens up his eyes for what he stands to lose.
I'm too nice for my own good and believe that everyone has some good in them and can better themselves with a little bit of effort, but over the years, I've just become a doormat, I guess.

The other thing I used to do is have endless arguments ‘with’ my dh in my head, which of course he knew nothing about. I had to stop myself and recognize that it wasn’t his voice.

Be nice to yourself. Try to invest in yourself for a while. Try to go out with your friends. Let his actions and inactions be like water off a duck’s back.

Mainly be nice to yourself.

Problem is you want him to be a different person.

He doesn't love you enough to make any effort and he would only make that kind of effort for someone he was in love with.

If he loved you he'd engage with you.

@rosinavera I'm afraid with some people unless you are very blunt, they just don't get it.

Truthfully I know and understand everything everyone is saying to me, I just don't want to allow myself to fully believe or accept it.

Then nothing will change.

Sorry, OP, but he's showing you who he is and you should believe him.

You sound like you've tried everything. You can't walk him through life. You can't make him be who you need or want him to be. You can't make someone change if they just don't want to. And you shouldn't be expected to put up with it either.

You deserve better.

I think it would be best to ask him to leave. Don't explain, he knows why. Don't say 'if you do this, that, the other' we can stay together. He'll either do whatever you've asked and try a bit because you've told him to and he's a bit scared (and it'll only be temporary before he goes back to normal), or he will stonewall and you'll know what to do.

It doesn’t sound like he’ll be able to fundamentally change who he is.

I’d make the preparations you need to leave.

OP, it feels heavy to just read about your efforts. You really need to stop this and leave. Or accept him as he is. No change. Ever. Possibly getting worse as time goes on.
To be brutally honest, I'd say he doesn't even like you, nevermind want to woo you with date nights. That might be hard to hear, but work from that and you can start creating an exit plan to a happier life.
Are children involved?

You don't need to leave but you do need to see a lawyer and start moving towards separation. You can do that from where you are.

You'll need loads of paper evidence eg bank statements, mortgage etc. Divorce is a pretty slow moving beast. Assuming you have kids work out the time you want the kids 50:50 or whatever. Stop trying to make your marriage work and start making your divorce work.

I notice you get (justifiably) angry when you talk about how he's been indifferent or difficult with you, but immediately shy away from talk of leaving him.

Your anger is your current emotional outlet, not the love and happiness you should be having. But by hanging onto your anger, you make it seem to yourself that the relationship can be made to work if only he will try harder.

If you're terrified of leaving, you could be using this anger to stay in the relationship. If you were also indifferent and difficult, you'd have left him already.

I don't want to sound flippant, but all this effort you are putting into making him change - you are going to have to accept that he simply doesn't want to.

Imagine that I had a boyfriend who was really really keen that I should become overwhelmingly interested in cataloguing molluscs. He could point out how much fun we'd have together if I loved molluscs as much as he did, how getting out and about looking for molluscs would improve my health, lists loads of other people who were interested in molluscs and present a hundred logical arguments why I ought to like molluscs like he did.

Would it make me actually change and like molluscs? Doubtful. If he then got angry and said that he'd spent years fighting for me to like molluscs and he was doing all the work and I needed to start proving to him that I really was interested in molluscs or he was off, it still wouldn't fundamentally change who I was.

OP, your partner is not interested in changing. You may feel very confused as to why he won't be more like you want him to be, and be convinced that if he could only change he would be so much happier and everything would be fine, and feel that you are somehow impirically right and he is very definitely wrong, but none of that is actually going to help in any way.

Are you happy with him as he is, or do you want to walk away? Constantly making deals ("if you don't change x, I'm going to do y") and making ultimatums you have no intention of keeping is a waste of time.

OP
He's answered all you wishes with a negative.
No effort.
No care.
No use repeating it on here. We get you in a few sentences. He gets you too. He just isn't interested enough to do the things you want. It's that simple.

I'm another thinking you're flogging a dead horse here. I'm really sorry.

Can you tell us what the bad things were that he put you through? It's horrible that he's not trying to make a go of things now.

I don't think he's the only one with his head in the sand.

You are not listening to us.

HE DOES NOT CARE OR WANT TO CHANGE.

It's up to you if you want to spend the next 10 years of your life having the exact same frustrations/conversations.

Or....

Do what most people on here are suggesting. End things and feel a dead weight lifting off you.

Yes, leaving is scary. It also fucking liberating.

It's up to you.

I think the Op will have a lightbulb moment one of these fine days, she knows the theory and arguments that he isn't going to change, but keeps hoping and thinking as she has invested so much into this relationship.
I think even if she calls time and that gives him a boot up the backside he will put in some effort but we all know that it won't last.
When I spoke to a counsellor at length about my failing first marriage she said "you either put up, shut up and continue living your life full of resentment ,cos he's never going to change, or you take charge and control your own future."
Several weeks after she said that I had my own lightbulb moment, decision made but I had to come to that realisation in my own time, I'm sure the OP will have her own realisation soon.

Where do you find the strength to leave? I've reached breaking point a fair few times over the last year or so, but I always wind up fighting for the relationship and trying to save it, desperately sticking back together all the crumpled little pieces whilst my DH couldn't care less.

I can't seem to say 'okay, this really is it now. We're done' and stick to it. I have this overwhelming fear that I'll end up regretting it, or that my life will somehow be worse without him and that I will have failed my children by making them come from a 'broken' home. I know that last one is ridiculous, my parents divorced when I was young and I hold no resentment for them going their separate ways, but I always vowed I'd never do it to my kids.

I'm just so afraid of the future. I know it can't continue like this. But I don't know how to rip off the plaster and actually see things through.

I just feel like a massive coward.

He's not interested in changing at all.
My ex was like this. He never changed at all because he did not see why he should and was therefore not interested in doing so.
I wish I had kicked him out earlier.

Your life will be better without him because you can do what you like when you like without having to wait around to see if he can be bothered to get his finger out to take you on a date.
You can go on dates with other men who can be bothered or you can go on a date with yourself or with your children.

Just take tiny steps. You don't have to do everything in one go.

Sit and think about what YOU want. Where do you want to live?

Get some legal advice. What are you entitled to?

Gather all paperwork, including his salary and pension information/birth/wedding certificates/passports.

It's called getting your ducks in a row.

PS: Your children will be much better off with happy, separate parents, than married miserable ones.

You say you are afraid of the future. The future is less scary when you have knowledge and an action plan.

Start planning your exit. A plan is just a plan, if you decide he's brilliant and you love your life, you can choose to not enact the plan.

If you had a plan, what would the plan be? What's difficult? What's easy? What needs research?

In your last post @NeverTakenSeriously you've summed up why I think you would be helped by counselling..:: because whichever route you take it'll be tough for a while. Find a counsellor who would see you if he decided not to turn up. Give him a chance to go. You can be helped to form a new relationship of co-parenting. Don't do it for him, do it for you.

Oh OP. You must find your strength. The alternative is continuing as you are, but you need to stop asking him to go to counselling/dates. Stop asking him to do anything. Accept he doesn’t like or love you and you are together purely because both of you are too scared of the alternative of being alone.

I think you would be much better arranging therapy for yourself to work out why you are staying with someone who clearly doesn't give a shit about you. he doesnt care that you are unhappy / pissed off because there are no consequences for HIM...

That's a step forward, you acknowledge you are afraid of going solo and of "failing".

Just let those emotions sit with you..over a period of time you will feel more comfortable and strong enough to start making plans. Just keep saying to yourself you deserve better.

From experience a stonewaller is an extremely angry person, often not because of you but due to childhood issues.

He has checked out of the marriage but that doesn't mean it is your fault. Loving someone is a choice and he has chosen to stop acting in a loving and caring way. It doesn't make sense but it is likely to be reality. These characters are often very complex and years of therapy may not fix it.

He appears to have contempt for you and this is seen as a relationship killer as there is no going back from contempt.

In my experience don't tell him you are leaving until you have plans. An angry man may get vindictive. It was shocking how Ex reacted to my asking for a separation. He said he would unleash hell on me and he did.

Would you consider yourself to be an empath? Too giving towards others and then feeling resentful when it's not returned? This isn't to blame you but to help you understand yourself. If so, you could be a target for self centred and narcisstic people. They take your kindness for granted and when you get try to get your needs met they react aggressively or with contempt. To them it's always a one way street and they are dismissive of your needs.