Claiming UC and letting boyfriend stay over, advice please?

[ilovewelshrarebit123]

I've been a single parent for 10 years and never had a relationship in that time until a year ago.

I work 30 hours a week and claim Universal Credit. I've been with my boyfriend a year now and he is staying over at weekends but I'd like him to stay some weeknights to.

He has his own rented house, so pays all bills there etc. He does not contribute to my house (rented) apart from a bit of food. He does have some clothes, personal items here.

So what are the rules regarding UC and partners staying over. Am I breaking the rules by letting him stay, even though he doesn't pay any bills and isn't on council tax etc

Thanks

There are no rules really. If they maintain their own house and pay council tax they aren't living with you. If they pitch in with bills and food shopping its slightly trickier.

The rules around what constitutes living together are a bit woolly and open to interpretation. One of the criteria seems to be "if friends and family consider you a couple" which is the most pointless distinction ever!

Most of your friends and family won't know whether your BF contributes to your household expenses or how many nights he stays with you. If they could just come up with a number i.e no more than 2 nights a week, it would be much clearer, but I think they deliberately leave it ambiguous so that they can go after vulnerable people and scare them into dropping their UC claim.

As long as your BF still has his own house where he pays bills and is registered for council tax and electoral role you should be able to prove that he doesn't live with you if the question arises. The idea that you can't have anyone to stay over ever if you're claiming as a single person is ludicrous, even though some people would advise that as the safest way not to get caught out.

How are you ever supposed to build a close enough relationship with a man to consider moving in together or getting married if you're not even allowed to spend a night beforehand? Or are you only supposed to stay at his house (even though as a woman you're more likely to be the one with DCs full time!) Its just a crappy system in so many ways, and the fear that genuine single claimants have about spending the night with a new boyfriend is just another aspect of it.

YES THERE ARE RULES- aslong as he only stays over 3 nights a week and doesn’t pay towards your bills it’s fine, however if he stays over 4 or more nights a week then you can get done for fraud (not him) because your the one claiming. UC. 4 or more nights a week is classed as living there. Even if he’s paying for his own house and staying at yours 4+ nights a week you WILL be in trouble. At the same time if he stays there 3 night and you stay at his 3 nights a week it’s still fraud so be careful.

When I was on income support and tax credits, which I expect UC is the same (I'm just assuming all benefits are the same). I was told one night and you have to declare it.
I said about the 3 night rule thing and they said it's bollocks and they're not sure where it comes from. But even one night must be declared.
Absolutely ridiculous in my opinion, do they honestly think that if someone stops for one night they are forever responsible for yours and possibly childrens finances?

I'm rambling now. But just be aware. It's unlikely anyone would find out he's stopping unless someone reported you but if you get to a point of being almost living together you may want to consider it.

YES THERE ARE RULES- aslong as he only stays over 3 nights a week and doesn’t pay towards your bills it’s fine, however if he stays over 4 or more nights a week then you can get done for fraud (not him) because your the one claiming. UC

God that myth was about when I were a lass

It's that if friends and family thing sees you as a couple that confuses the hell out of me.

I was surprised to find out you have to declare going out the country on holiday. Don't know if that's changed though.

I recently got reported to UC for having my boyfriend living with me (he's not), by my abusive ex husband. I told them I could happily demonstrate how he's not and asked about the rules. Basically it's about disadvantage. If my other half is funding my household I would have an advantage over others on the same benefits. As long as he maintains his own house and pays his bills, doesn't help with mine he can come and go as he pleases. I talked at length with the advisor as we wanted to slowly increase time at mine as we move in together soon. The advisor said as long as we were still maintaining separate households that's fine and commended me for being sensible and thinking of the kids.

@Misschipmunk That's bollocks.

Alright then it’s all bollocks let’s see who ends up in trouble cos it’s certainly not me. I wouldn’t take advice off this lot if your concerned speak to them. They will tell you the exact same thing. Because my auntie needs care and receives benifits and I stay with her I’m not allowed to stay longer than 3 nights because I’m not declared as living with her as I live alone. So yes the 3 day rule does apply if there’s ANY sort of benifits

@misschipmunk . I retired from DWP in December after 30 + years working with benefits . With respect , you are talking utter rubbish and I hope no one takes your advice . The 3 night myth is that - a myth .

Succinctly put Stillgotit
And you need advice Misschipmunk, staying over and providing care doesn't have a limit either.

oldbutstillgotit what would the DWP view be; I'm sure a 1-2 night stay occasionally would be fine and definitely not be seen as living together on the other hand 4+ nights a week starts to look like living together but what about inbetween?

What would be the guidelines because I would consider some people an exclusive couple while dating but they are definitely not living together so does the separate households mean anything?

There are lots of variables so it is hard to give specific guidance. No one expects single people / parents to be celibate however investigators will look at the whole relationship. Do friends/ family regard them as a family unit ? Do they share finances ? Do they have mail delivered there ? What address does their work hold for them ? How regular were the overnight stays ? I dealt with people who claimed to be single parents and the partner said (s)he lived with their parents or lodged with a friend’s but just used that place as a cover .

At the end of the day I would just tell them, ring tomorrow. UC is very complex and no one seems to know the rules, including UC staff.

But you need to inform them. If you don't inform them, you risk a referral being made - by s neighbor, friend, staff, even a system match as all benefits link up. The first step they do , before any other action, is check the benefit you're on is effected by the allegation. So UC is affected by a living together allegation. Then they check if you've informed them. If you have, it gets chucked in the bin so to speak.

If you haven't told them, they will send it to investigators. Depending on how long it's assumed to be going on, it will either go to compliance or fraud. Compliance deal with low amounts, fraud with larger amounts. Compliance generally ring or interview you, and double check your circumstances are the same. They tell you that you must inform them of any changes , and the possible consequences of you do not. Then you sign something saying you know that. Any further fraud allegations from then on go to fraud. Fraud are the ones who do interviews under caution.

It's up to you, it's your life. No one can give you a simple answer because there isn't one, it really depends. Your best bet is to be honest and upfront, then you aren't worrying about a letter in the post. If you don't it's up to you, but you cannot then complain if you get in trouble

You don't call the DWP to tell them you've got a partner that you're not living with!

I had my benefits stopped altogether because my landlord still had his bank statements sent to my old address so it showed on a credit check and they assumed i was living with him.

He absolutely did not live with me. 5months of investigations, 3 kids and no income seriously destroyed me while i proved my point.

I wasn't suggesting that op rang to tell them she had a partner but he wasn't living there. Her thread is titled letting bf stay over and she mentions that they'd like to start it in the week too. If it stays at 2days PW then no need to mention anything. If he stays the weekend then 2 days a week then there could be a need. Again it's a gray area as there is no straight answer. It depends on circumstances and interpretation. If I were in your shoes and my partner stayed more often, I would inform UC to cover myself

This was from Citizens Advice today

From years of 2nd hand experience, having your own council tax bill seems to satisfy them despite any other evidence that strongly suggests you are living together.

So from the experience I had recently... I would honestly say there is a lot of grey areas. I call my boyfriend, Partner because I do want a commited relationship and I prefer the term than boyfriend... as it sounds like I'm 13 again and having a 3 month crush. If you say Partner to anyone who works for DWP they consider it straight away as a cohabiting relationship. I made that mistake when claiming for my PIP. The lady I spoke to during my assessment was lovely, but it just shows that advantages are taken of people because how the bloody hell would I know that saying he is my partner than my boyfriend would raise a red flag on my claim? So my partner used to stay at mine, and there was a period he stayed longer than he should but even with valid reasons it doesn't matter. It didnt matter that I have been increasingly getting worse with my health and slowly deteriorating. Infection and infection, back and forth to hospital, doctors. Nope, doesn't matter. The compliance officer states they don't discriminate and this isnt a personal attack on the compliance officer I saw in no way shape or form..she was lovely, supportive, understanding but at the end of the day she has a job to do. She doesnt make the rules.
The advice I will give from my experience is to speak to your Job centre- UC coach in the next available appointment and ask the questions you want to. I dont think in my opinion your partner staying over should be a problem even if it's more than once a week when they have their own place. At the end of the day they're paying for their own home, Bill's, food, council tax. My partner works full time. How are we supposed to build relationships if we arent allowed to have them stay over at all? I was told for an example that if it's even 1 day or 2 a week it is classed as regular and only once a month isn't.. she wrote everything down we discussed and then she asked how often he will be staying from that point on in which I felt from the advice that he couldnt. So I said he wouldnt, signed the agreement and done. So if my partner stays over even once and I am surveillance, I could be prosecuted. So even though my partner stayed for 1 full week when I came out of hospital, does a lot for me and is considered my carer from the amount of physical help he gives me, its fraudulent if I let him stay. Even though on my UC note it is now asking if I use my spare room for someone to stay over who helps me. So now what? I get taxed for having a bedroom that isnt used? Our relationship has been affected by this to the point I hardly see him now. I've had to have equipment fitted to help my independence, which is positive, I do want to be independent but the downside is.. my mental health is crashing. I dont go out, I cant, I'm too poorly. I have to get a taxi to my gps and back and it's only round the corner. I see my mum and son once and week and I spend more outings to the hospital and back than anywhere else. I might not be able to work. So the way I view my life now is I'm just waiting for it to end. I have the company of two cats. And why should my partner have to stay in a relationship with someone he hardly sees because of a ridiculous rule? But then again why not be a horrid rule? I mean I cant contribute to society so it makes me a liability. I have to get sick notes updated regularly from my GP. I've not been able to attend my health assessment today due to a kidney infection that wont go away because I have an antibody in my blood attacking my immune system. My partner cant be my carer cause he cant reduce his hours to do that it would mean financially he would struggle. We have been together just over a year and the DWP shouldn't assume that I want to rush into living together. For one the rent is expensive, Bill's and food alone. My whole UC goes on my rent and then I have to live off my PIP. I skip meals to ensure I have enough food. I hardly have my heating on to save on gas costs and now it's getting colder I'll be wearing my coat more indoors, gloves and blankets on me and it's no joke, i got a big house that i cant afford to fully heat. I have no priority to get on the council to bid even though I've lived here for 7 years. Luckily my dad helps me with covering cost of my cats food and litter. Without them I'd be even worse cause they're my only company. If you can get off of benefit then do it. It's not worth it, I cant imagine why a court would prosecute me for having my partner stay to help me but we live in a messed up world. I worked last when I was 19 before having my son and then I got poorly. If I was well enough to I would work. I'm not even on the highest rate of PIP. I have £240 to live off for the entire month after my rent. And that is for my gas, electric, water, virgin internet and what is left is enough to top up my tin cupboard, some bread and milk. I am on folic acid medication and I have been on b12 but that shows how not being able to afford the essentials to be healthy can affect you. Just stay at your boyfriend or girlfriends more until your circumstances financially change and you can get off benefits. Its just not worth the hassle.

Old thread but this

I was surprised to find out you have to declare going out the country on holiday. Don't know if that's changed though. isn’t a new thing. I had my jsa stopped years ago when I went on holiday as I wasn’t “actively looking for work” If I was on holiday (which my brother paid for)

@JuniperNarni 'I was told one night and you have to declare it.'

IDK who told you that but it's completely wrong. Otherwise people wouldn't be allowed to have a boyfriend (they're allowed.)

@Oscar2013 So sorry you're having such a bad time. Yes unfortunately they can be a bit funny about disabled people having a partner who lives with them/helps, and maybe 'partner' is the wrong word for us to use on the phone to them- good point. We need to make it clear on the phone that we don't live with them.

Please get more help for your mental health, as you sound really down- please get in touch with your GP or any consultant you see for your mental health, and tell them how you're feeling, so they can try some new treatment.

@ilovewelshrarebit123 The main worry is if someone takes against you and tries to call the DWP and stir, claiming you're living together. Other than that they've got no reason to consider you at all and you should be ok. xx

The '3 nights rule' is a myth. As a PP said acknowledgement by others is one of the criteria, but there are 5 criteria www.gov.uk/hmrc-internal-manuals/claimant-compliance-manual/ccm15040
These are- living together (presumanbly full time), stability of relationship, financial support, dependent children, public acknowledgement.

Adjudicators consider all these factors to make a decision. Yes, being the DWP it's deliberately a bit wooly. But if they do raise a query, you can always provide evidence that he still pays all his own bills at his adress and it'd probably be ok. It's unlikely you'll get in trouble, anyway. But I know how nervewracking the DWP can be. xxx

You still claim as being single , I recently got married , phoned up to change my circumstances and they said because he doesn't live with you it's still a single claim

He can stay a few nights. Not on the trot. Hs. And have his post there. Don’t tell anyone.

@JuniperNarni Thank you for your sympathy. I'm on 150mg of venlafaxine for my low mood. I have a diagnosis of borderline personality disorder < I dont like the label but it explains how I cope with things in my adult life. It stemmed from my child hood. I lost a friend when I was very little, I was 9 and he was 7. He was murdered and it had a massive affect on me for years and years. I guess the shock knocked the innocence out of me. I've had counselling, CBT, I am under a mental health team for support. I'm on a waiting list to join a group therapy with other people who have BPD and it is treatable because the therapy is extensive to rewire my brain, change my reactions to events that are difficult and for me to manage more. When I read up on it and from what I've been told it's a very common diagnosis that's only just becoming recognisable. I struggle with low mood more than anything but the lack of support when I was younger probably impacted further..I had a counsellor from 9 to 15. Was very close to her. I just wish that things like mindfulness and cbt could have been offered back then ha. We all need coping skills with life. But yeah right now I am low but a lot has happened in the last year but I have the right support. I have my downs but I do have ups too, good and bad days. But I get by and my sons my protective factor so I focus on him when I feel low. I'm at rhuematology on monday, I've started on gabapentin 300mg 3 times a day which helps the pain but I sleep more with it. I use an app called Hub Hope, I would recommend that to everyone out there. Its amazing, it is completely free. You type in your postcode onto it and it shows you loads of services that are helpful in your area. And there is a direct link to samaritans and if you feel better talking through text theres a text service. I feel better once I offload how I am feeling. But there was one time that being too honest affected someone else and unfortunately this person was a stranger to me, I dont remember their name. But she was a maintenance advice line, I have to pay £7 a a week to my sons dad which comes out if my PIP. I dont mind paying maintenance just I'm practically on my backside and he doesnt actually need the money with the income he has but thats another story. Anyway I disclosed how I felt and that I had felt so low I felt "Suicidal" but from my experience with counselling, cbt, etc. I know it's normal for people to have those thoughts and that it's only worrying when they become plans or lead to attempts. I haven't acted on anything for 2 years now and before that was 19 years ago. Sometimes though you dont realise that even though you're talking to a professional who is their to support and give advice that in that moment you dont realise or think how it will affect them. I reassured her I had no intentions of acting but I guess she has a care of duty and it did impact on her. Towards the end of the phone call, her voice was shaky and she was breathing nervously and I could hear her trying not to sob. I felt awful, she ended the phone call with me calmly as she could. 1 hour later 2 police officers came to see if I was ok. I told them I knew where it had come from and I was more concerned for her. It's hard living with mental health because it's still difficult to be open fully with anyone everyone has different opinions on what you say and reacts differently. So I find it now when I'm low if tell anyone how I feel it could affect them, or affect me more by unburdening myself. I dont think the medication being upped will solve my problems. I try to practice gratitude a lot, I could be worse off. I got a beautiful son who I love dearly and just a smile from him is enough to make me feel good. I've noticed seasonal depression is real, its always in winter we feel more blue. But going back to the subject instead of me waffling, there should be if any rule an allowance of at least 1 over night stay with a boyfriend or girlfriend a week.