How to move past finding out about secret debt

[Secretdebt]

I have NC but am a regular poster. Have found out this evening that DH has accumulated £30k in secret debt. I only found out because I asked to see the statements of the loan I was aware of (about 6k for the car) as I was planning to start overpaying when our free childcare hours kick in next month.

It's not so much the money which is an issue as we have a decent household income so with hard work we can pay it off and it won't affect our ability to pay for essentials. It's the deceit which is killing me.

He did have a small amount of secret debt (couple of thousand) before we got married and I was so upset by that and almost called it all off that I thought that he would never be so stupid again.

We have DS who is 3 so I am not leaving but how do I move past this? How will I ever trust him again. If anyone has been through similar and can advise that would be amazing. Feel like such an idiot right now that my life seems to have been built on lies.

What is he spending the money on?

Does he know that you know? What was the money spent on?

I think the first step to being able to move on is to understand the how and why. Then you can discuss it (and work out how to address it) and make a plan. Then you can start to move on.

Yes he knows I know as he told me last night after I asked to see the account for the loan I knew about and he broke down and confessed.

Not entirely sure what the money has been spent on, will be spending today going through all the statements etc. He says he has no idea, just crap basically. If he sees a new pair of shoes he wants or whatever he just buys them. I would have noticed large items entering the house but wouldn't notice a trickle of clothes, computer games etc.

He will also I suspect have spent a lot keeping up with a friend of his who has a lot of money. He meets up with him regularly and I suspect may have been going to Michelin started restaurants and so forth. Will confirm it all today though.

Good luck with whatever you decide to do.

This would be a red card offence for me.

So we have sat down and gone through it all and it is £38k and actually the car had already been paid off so we should have been debt free (apart from the mortgage and student loans) by now. He has been lying to me too about how much he earns (about £500 more than he has told me which he has been using to fund all this). He has also been using the £300 which I thought was going to pay off the car to pay his own debts so £800 a month he has effectively been stealing from the family.

He has agreed to have me take over all the money going forward and to attend counselling to deal with his need to spend. I have no idea if we can survive this as a couple but I know I need to try for DS' sake.

38 grand? That's a good deposit on a flat. You sure it's not gambling?

I really feel for you. My ex dh his over 20k of debt from me. It wasn’t this that killed our marriage but it certainly was a contributing factor. It was the deceit. It’s great he is willing for you to control all the finances but he is an adult and should be able to do this himself. Why should you have all
The responsibility. Good luck in whatever you decide. This will be hard work but it is early days.

£38k is an incredible sum. I hope and assume it’s all solely in his name and you’re not gonna be affected by it? Are there goals you had which are now impossible?

I just couldn’t find a way to trick myself into trusting someone like that ever again. I know you mention your son as a reason not to split up but nobody could ever consider you unreasonable or unfair if you decide you just can’t continue with him. This is huge and sickening and kids are resilient and learn to cope fine with separated parents. Just don’t sell yourself down the river because you’ve convinced yourself no matter what your own needs are and your own right to respect, you have to stay with your son’s father no matter what. You don’t.

It is all in his name at least but as we are married could I be liable for it if something happened to him? We had loads of plans for the next few years as we should have been really comfortable financially. We were going to move to a beautiful part of the country and just enjoy ourselves after years of paying childcare and scraping by.

I just feel now like the marriage I had is dead and my choice now is between a marriage which is much worse than I had or no marriage at all which is just unbearable to think of. I have no family support network and my DH and DS are my life.

That’s a huge amount of money but I guess it could add up over a few years.

I guess it’s particularly upsetting given you have probably been trying to be reasonably frugal and it turns out he has been anything but...

You say he has a very well off friend. Is dh’s family wealthy? Or the people he works with? I ask because I think sometimes that can be a trigger for “living beyond your means”.

Why is no marriage unbearable to think of?. He is not your responsibility here.

What has he himself done today to address his debt?. Has he for instance called Stepchange?.

Your son cannot be used as the glue here either to bind you and your H together particularly if you now view this marriage as dead. If there is also no trust there is really no relationship.

It is all in his name at least but as we are married could I be liable for it if something happened to him

Yes, you very well could - the companies who've lent the money would be able to make a claim on his estate. You'd need legal advice about how to prevent that happening.

How has he run up the debts, is it credit cards, dodgy payday loans or what? Are any of the accounts in default? He must have an excellent credit rating to have been able to rack up 38k, so is it worth looking at a consolidation loan via the bank - if he's a long time customer he's likely to get a much better interest rate than most credit cards. Similarly if you have enough equity, a re-mortgage might work better.

He probably feels a huge sense of relief that this is now in the open. Yay for him, shit for you. I think you can get past this as long as he is willing to change his attitude and commit to being open, honest and sensible.

I think this is one situation where couples counselling could be very useful.

His family really aren't wealthy which I think is where this problem has come from, he is buying everything he couldn't have as a child. I do understand that feeling as we didn't have a TV when I was growing up so when I left home I went crazy watching stuff. Difference is that didn't hurt anyone else.

We have sat down today and worked out a plan to pay it back. We are lucky in that the amount of debt is itself manageable it just pushes our plans back a few years. It's the deceit which is the problem.

I have told him we need to go through all his old statements and see what exactly has gone wrong.

I want to make this marriage work because I do still love him and I come from a divorced family myself and don't want that for DS. I also had an abusive upbringing and have little to do with my family so having a family unit is really really important to me.

He has been financially abusing you with the hidden debt, and emotionally abusing you with all the lies. He has treated you and your son with such contempt, and changed your future without your consent. This would be a dealbreaker for me.

It is possible that he won’t stop with this. Can’t he get more credit cards or loans behind your back?

@Secretdebt
Pop over to the money board and join some of the debt threads.
You are not alone - there are a couple of people who found out similar amounts and reasons in the last couple of months.

You need to work out what it has been spent on.
You need to stop him spending it
and then you need to slap any cards onto standing orders and they will clear themselves in less than three years
and see where you are with the other loans.

Once you have the loans clear you can see where your marriage goes.

I really think you both need of understand where the £38,000 has gone. That’s an awful lot of computer games etc. I really struggle to think that that’s all it can be. Was anything for things for the family? Absolutely doesn’t make it right but slightly more okay I think as it’s about budgetting and he can work on that. If it was ‘I’m earning and it’s mine’ then it’s really offensive and says to me that he doesn’t really ‘buy’ into your shared goals.

Hi Op, I’m sad to say I’ve been through this too.
A couple of years ago I discovered my DP’s payslip which was a fair bit more than I’d thought he earned.
We had a joint account we paid into from our separate accounts so he was able to get away with it while I was busy looking the other way with bringing up kids and a full on job.

I then uncovered a load of debt, so not only was the arsehole having a fair whack of the disposable family cash every month he’d run up a load of debt and was then paying the minimum off each month so it never went down.
I’ve haven’t got any advice as such for you, I took over the money, and I’ve tried sticking it out, but decided the end of last year that I can’t move past it. Every time I thought about it I felt like exploding.
The respect I had for him has disappeared, and I feel like I don’t even know him anymore.
So I’m on for promotion at work, with a good pay rise, and am planning to end the relationship, take over the mortgage by myself and move on.
Good luck Op.

P.s Id be very shy of helping him get out of debt and then seeing where the marriage. It’s his debt. You need to talk the marriage issues first - at best whilst helping him. Please make sure that you have appropriate access to information now about pensions etc. He lies to you. I’m sorry to say but you don’t yet know the exact.

NWQM
Knowing from the multiple debt threads, assuming its over two or three years and includes interest and a selection of penalty fees
its little more than £800 a month
so a couple of posh meals, a couple of pieces of clothing and a couple of video games
a month
SCARILY easy to do

I thought that he would never be so stupid again

When you nearly didn't get married having found about his secret debts, did you actually have any sort of words with him about never doing this again and what would happen if he did? Because I think everyone else would have done. And carried through on those consequences if he repeated the offence.

what exactly has gone wrong

He's been lying to you for years, that's what's gone wrong.

having a family unit is really really important to me

That's nice. But what about your husband, who has basically shat all over that family unit by lying to you AGAIN on a subject that was serious enough for you to consider calling off the wedding. Who has hidden from you how much he actually earns. Has fucked up your plans to move so that you will now be scraping by for a few years. Has potentially made you jointly liable for his debts.

Nice man you've got there. Can precisely see why you'd want to stay with him.

its little more than £800 a month
so a couple of posh meals, a couple of pieces of clothing and a couple of video games a month
SCARILY easy to do

I think the OP would have spotted the couple pf posh meals at the very least, as she'd have been going on them. Seriously, I cannot fathom why it's SCARILY easy to spend £800 per month like this, every month, for years on end, when you KNOW you don't have the money. It's just not normal behaviour.

Everyone thinks I'm odd for not having a credit card, only a debit one. Maybe so. But means I can't do this sort of SCARILY easy behaviour.

Just to echo what other have said, don’t take what he says at face value.
If you haven’t already, get his credit report up.
So you know the exact amounts, and can pin point any massive purchases etc.

I think the OPs DH is spending far in XS of £800/month - the 800 was the extra 500 he earned and didn’t declare and the 300 loan that was already paid off - the other £38K (that she knows of) is on top of £9600 he is spending annually.

Over what period was the £38 accrued? That will indicate how much he is spending a month. Where it is going is the big Q - Drugs / Gambling / Prostitutes are the most common.

I agree with TIP actually. It is easy to do if you just keep putting things on credit every month especially if, as the OP suspects, he is playing keeping up with his rich friend!

But...op needs to discern exactly over what time frame it's been spent and what the money has actually gone on.

Op...I'm sorry. What an awful shock for you! :(

Things I would do in your situation:

Find out;

How long did the debt take to build up?

How much has been spent on average per month and on what?

If its been spent on designer stuff or desirable items, e bay as much as you can.

If items haven't been used and are still in packaging (my sister does this!) try and return them for a refund or credit note.

You can use any funds raised to pay off the debt.

If it's all gone on things like meals/days out then they have to stop. Now.

Depending on how much your dh is willing to do to prove his trustworthiness to you you could take over the finances, make sure he had no access to joint funds and give him an allowance per week/month.

Good luck x