How to move past finding out about secret debt

[Secretdebt]

I have NC but am a regular poster. Have found out this evening that DH has accumulated £30k in secret debt. I only found out because I asked to see the statements of the loan I was aware of (about 6k for the car) as I was planning to start overpaying when our free childcare hours kick in next month.

It's not so much the money which is an issue as we have a decent household income so with hard work we can pay it off and it won't affect our ability to pay for essentials. It's the deceit which is killing me.

He did have a small amount of secret debt (couple of thousand) before we got married and I was so upset by that and almost called it all off that I thought that he would never be so stupid again.

We have DS who is 3 so I am not leaving but how do I move past this? How will I ever trust him again. If anyone has been through similar and can advise that would be amazing. Feel like such an idiot right now that my life seems to have been built on lies.

I would also keep an open mind wrt possible gambling/drug issues :(

Thanks for the advice all, I am going to go through everything and find out where it has all gone. If gambling, drugs, prostitutes etc then the marriage is over. If just stupid spending on expensive items then I will try and make things work as long as he shows that he is committed to making it work too. I suspect that he has taken advantage of my complete disinterest when it comes to clothes and gadgets and so has been able to bring stuff in that I haven't noticed or haven't realised the cost of.

He says it has been going on since before our marriage so at least 5 years but probably more like 7 so I can see how with increasing interest you could hit such a large amount by overspending on 'luxuries'. I suspect he spends a lot when he meets his rich friend in London which is about once a month. He also goes on weekends away with his friends every couple of months and I suspect spends a lot then too. Will go through everything though just to check.

Which thread would be good for me to join on the money board?

Join the paying off debt thread.

TIP is great and has helped many pay off debts higher than yours.

Good luckx

@Secretdebt
Pop yourself into this thread
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/legal_money_matters/3439641-Drowning-in-debt-Dont-know-how-to-get-out-You-are-not-alone-Come-and-share-and-find-a-way-through

If he is doing Rich lads weekends away those can rock in at £5k a time easily
and if he's too proud / silly to admit he cannot afford it
time for him to grow up
by giving you total control of the finances

Definitely get him to sell everything he can. What a prize fool he is. You are more patient than I would be.

I agree it's seriously easy to get into debt. Concealed debt from partner though is a deliberate act and potentially says a lot more than just he was financially naive.

Drugs / gambling - I'd want to know he was getting addiction help;
Weekend jollies - is he not actually committed to our vision of the future.
Prostitutes or any other woman - it would be divorcing.

There is help on Mumsnet and in rl to get out of debt but OP please remember it's his debt. You may decide to help but make it conditional on his behaviour - which you don't get understand - changing or you'll just be sorting it out a 3rd, 4th.....

NWQM
Concealed debt from partner though is a deliberate act and potentially says a lot more than just he was financially naive.
After helping people on debt threads on here for many years
and helping real life clients to get out of debt

it normally starts with something small and stupid
and then a single missed payment lets it snowball
and admitting that the person has been living beyond their means
becomes such a loss of face that its "easier" to lie.

For the one with the debt, the day of confrontation is often a massive relief
as the lying is over
and the moving forwards can begin.

For the ones who prefer the lying, I believe the phrase LTB is applicable
but for the rest there is hope

I never uncovered what happened to the £1000 my Ex stole from me after using my card to get groceries. He had my card for a week whilst I was in hospital. He said he couldn't remember what he'd used my money for. I made sure he paid me back.

He has a rich, seedy friend who uses escorts and gambles - he can afford to do stupid stuff. I can't think of what else he did with the money. There was nothing to show for it.

I have told him that we need to go through all his old statements and see what exactly has gone wrong.

What has gone wrong? He feels entitled to be financially manipulative and lie. He has abused your trust and sabotaged your future, yet you are taking responsibility for him and bailing him out like he’s a wayward teenager.

Surely he has forfeited his right to meet the wealthy friend in London and go on friends’ weekends.

You have gone from an abusive upbringing to an abusive marriage. You are doing your son no favors by staying with a man who is capable of such betrayal.

I’m sorry that you are going through this. You could greatly benefit from the support of individual counseling.

Thanks TiP I will head over :) DH says it is a massive relief to have it out in the open and he has told his parents too which I think is good.

I've been in a similar situation, not quite the same as it was debt from before we got married that my husband just ignored. £15k worth. It's an awful shock and yes knowing my husband essentially lied about / concealed that did make me wonder what else he would / could lie about . It was a v tough couple of years and caused some huge arguments and a loss of trust over other things .

I'm not sure I have much advice but in hindsight I wish we'd gone to counselling, I struggled with not telling anyone the full story. It's not easy but if you feel your relationship is worth fighting for , then do it. But he needs to fully understand the consequences, particularly around losing trust in him. My husband had to work quite hard to build it up.

I have ended up managing all the money, though we have a joint account so it is easier.

I would suggest that you need to manage all money from now on, if you can, at least until all debt is paid off and he has a cash allowance each week or month. That may not be appealing but it will help break the cycle of spending...and you both sit down and look at income and outgoings together, all of it, and work out a plan. Also he needs to take steps to prove he's sorting it out e.g contacting Step Change.

It is possible to come back from it but it's not easy and he needs to know he has to rebuild your trust... Otherwise the marriage is at risk. Good luck with whatever you decide.

Hi op

Oops posted too soon!

I have been going through similar with my DH.

And he has, in the last year, admitted to a debt of £30k stemming from gambling. I’m not saying your DH has amassed that amount for gambling, just giving you that detail for background.

My DH has issues going back to his childhood, he is/was a massive people pleaser. When things started getting stressful for him, he would use gambling as a distraction, this has been going on for about 18 years.

It came out in dribs and drabs

1. Told me he was spending too much gambling (I knew he gambled because he was in syndicates with his friends for different sports) so he was going to stop

2. he stopped for approximately 3 months before he started again but he hid it from me

3. I walked in on him in the office making a deposit into his betting account

4. I kicked off. Demanded his phone to see if he was still part of the syndicates, check he hadn’t downloaded the apps etc and told he needed to tell me everything if he wanted this marriage to work (married for 5 years) and the next time he gambled it would be over

5. gave me loads of excuses until in the end he said, ignore everything I’ve said to you, I need help.

So it took us a few steps to him telling me everything, opening up about his triggers and his childhood (he never had before, just mentioned in passing that it was shit) and he took himself off to gambling meetings.

He gave me access to every account he has, cut up all of his credit cards, gave me his login details for his credit reports and has shown me how he expects to pay this debt off over the next 18 months. To this day I haven’t checked anything as I trust him, he is a changed man, his demeanour, his attitude and his lifestyle.

My advice to you would be that you need full transparency and control over everything financial. He needs to surrender his credit cards and give you access to everything. You may not ever look like I haven’t, but having the ability to do so is important.

My DH has also encouraged me to ask him questions about it and hasn’t got annoyed - even if the questions come out of the blue.

I wouldn’t throw your marriage and your family away over this. Like you, the issue for me wasn’t the money, it was the deceit, but I understood how painful it was living with that secret and weight as well, so don’t be too hard on him - have your moment, you deserve it, but support him to work through it, if you shout him down, he’ll close up and he may well do it again.

I do hope you work through it. For me, money isn’t the be all and all, it was more important for me for him to open up to me and communicate, the money will be dealt with but our relationship is too important for this to break it. Having said that, I did tell him that if it happens again, we are done. But I’m giving him this chance.

Sausage
Well done on working a god way through a horrible situation.

Have you made him cut up the cards - all of them?

Oh, and find out where the statements are going to - he should be willing to give you his passwords if he is being totally honest about this.

Another who unfortunately has lived this nightmare.

Agree that you must have full transparency from him starting with every credit report out there. Lenders don't always report to every agency. Check for undisclosed bank accounts too.

You need full control of the money. Savings in your sole name likewise purchases. Establish where the money has gone. If he's frittered it on crap it stops now. Every bit of debit card spending needs to be filtered through an account you look at daily. If he has a cash allowance you need to see receipts. See if there's anything he can sell. Stepchange or Payplan can contact creditors to negotiate affordable repayments and get charges stopped if he qualifies for a DMP. The upside of a DMP means it will be a lot harder for him to take out more credit.

What is he planning to do about all this? It's his shit show. He needs to step up.

In a similar situation at the moment. My DH has ran up thousands in debts. The 1st time I discovered it he told me a load of lies... of course I believed him & paid it off. Told him I would leave I’d it ever happened again.

Three weeks ago I discover another large amount of debt he’s ran up over the last two years. Both times it’s been gambling. The first time I sought advice on here and everyone said gambling, I didn’t see how I couldn’t have know if he was gambling. Truth is they hide it so bloody well!! He was gambling & still is.

He left me before I could even confront him about it. He knew he was caught out again & ran as far and as fast as he could. I’ve luckily had no financial link to him ever so I am ok that way. However I am absolutely heartbroken that he could lie so much to me. The decker is unbareable and after living my life with our kids on a budget to find out he has been doing this is soul destroying.

I could never forgive him or trust him again. I am glad he’s gone, at least now I can move on & start rebuilding my life & dreams.

I felt like you the first time around, don’t feel like me the second 💐

It's his shit show. He needs to step up.

This you need to watch. This is the 2nd time debt has come to light - so he was unable to sort the issue last time. Lots of advice for YOU to sort it - but what about him?

Very important not to lose sight - whilst YOU are firefighting by taking control and sorting it - of what the real emotional issue is that got him here and what the spend is on. Seems that YOU are speculating as to what he has spent the money on rather than him declaring exactly where it has gone.

If you have been married 5 years and he had 2-3K debt before (that you know of) then +£38 is £8k a year + the extra £9600 he wasn’t declaring thru addictional wages and completed loan repayments - that’s nearly £90,000 ..... that you know of.

I would find it extremely hard to forgive this. Actually, I mean to say, I couldn't forgive this.

Particularly as during this time you have had your first child and even that didn't make him wake up, smell the coffee and start sorting things out for yours and your child's future.

I also wish that he had confessed this, rather than you discovering it.

It is a huge breach of trust at a crucial time in your marriage/family.

You only need one child in your family to look after at the moment. Please think carefully and definitely pull it all apart at counselling.

Good luck OP.

You will sort it out. Put in plan. Make sacrifices. He will do it again.

Only he can change.

You just have to hope he changes before you have enough. Women wait longer before divorcing, but when they decide to go that’s it.

Have a read about financial infidelity.

I would seek some legal advice before you start taking responsibility for the debt. Fair enough if you decide to stay and bust your balls trying to pay it off for years and years - but what if a year in he is still at it or you discover that the spend was on drugs, OW, gambling, prostitutes - and you want to walk - but by then you have taken on his debt. Not sure if by law 50% is yours already.

His “relief” is an interesting reaction - delighted for him ! Has he considered your despair, shock of betrayal?

The monthly night away with the rich friend - I would be looking very closely at how this adds up to £1500.....the onus is on him to show how the transactions add up.

I have been through this. And for more money. We are still together. I was always the higher earner so it didn't affect our day to day spending but has had an effect, for example we can't move to a bigger house as no one would lend to him and my current salary isn't enough.

After I found out about the debt I realised he is really rubbish with money and actually maths generally. He just doesn't get the idea that you have to put money aside for future costs or debts and will spend whatever he has or even really understand how lots of small purchases add up. know what he spent the money on (stuff not having a good time) but assumed he was buying it with his earnings. I think he is probably a shopping addict as buying stuff is stress release for him. I am the polar opposite and have no real interest in shopping at all.

The debt is still an issue for me but I made it clear that he had to pay the debt and he is in a debt scheme to do that. I keep all my money separate and handle all the finances. I decided to stay for similar reasons to you and also because he was clearly on the edge of having a breakdown when he finally couldn't keep all the plates juggling and I found out. I have also made it clear that if it happens again I will leave. If I could I would put the house into my name and he would do that but we wouldn't get as favourable a mortgage.

Seeing as he has done it twice, I’d say the risk of him doing it again are very high.

He obviously has no problem lying to you long term. This is weapons grade level of deceit. The trust would truly be gone for me.

I understand why you want to make it work but I'd hate the thought of having to behave like his Mum in the future.

I could probably forgive him, especially if he was upfront about everything and willing to go for counselling but I'm not sure I could ever respect him or trust him again. I'd find his actions pathetic and childish at best.

I think I'd have to LTB. I'd feel sorry for him but you can't base a marriage on that.