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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

I am ending my friendship, but should I tell her ex

87 replies

Friendshipover · 15/02/2019 06:00

Ok, I am going to try and keep this as shirt as possible. Been here about 9 years, but namechanged invade anyone recognises me.

I have a friend of about 20 years. She is a older than me. She had an horrendous first marriage at 16, he had affairs she had affairs, he became violent, 3 kids camebinto it and she finally got rid of him. She then had a child with someone who had mental health problems and was left with all 4 kids, doing it alone.

Anyway when she was mid 30s she met someone in early twenties. They seemed to get on really well most of the time. Her youngest was toddler and the others were 10 and older. Her Dp took the kids on, especially the toddler. He considers that child he own child, as the dad is nowhere to be found.

Anyway, it's been a rollercoaster of a relationship. Even from the start. Neither of them covered themseleves in glory. They would argue about anything and everything. Even in front of people. Neither trusted the other, she would accuse him of cheating, he would accuse her of cheating. She would purposely try and make him jealous by giving the house number out to men to call her on, he would get angry (never violent or close to) that men were ringing the house, so he would flirt with women in front of her she would get angry and on and on. These arguments happened every 6-12 weeks and both of them acted badly. Individually, they are nice people. Together, it just didn't work.

What did happen was that despite a long relationship of almost 20 years and marriage, she wouldn't put his name on any house they rented and would kick him out, if they fell out. He would have to spend the next 2-4 weeks begging to go back and she would eventually give in.

The root of their issues, from my point of view was that she couldn't have more kids and her age. She felt very insecure that he would go off with someone younger and who could have kids. He always reassured he loved her and was happy no having his own kids and viewed her kids as his.

I had fertility problems so sympathised. I justified, wrongly, alot of her behaviour and supported her because I knew to hard it was not being able to give the man you love a baby.

Anyway, her kids became adult and started moving out, she then hit her (now) husband a few times. And it got worse.

3 years ago she kicked him out again. He begged to come back for a few weeks. Then he decided it was done. At first she didn't believe it and said 'he will come crawling back'. He didn't. She went to where he was staying and kicked off, tried to attack him and he wouldn't come back with her. She became convinced he met someone else, so would sit all night outside where he was staying, would ring him and scream abuse. I felt so bad for her because she was hurting so much, but I was also getting concerned her behaviour was out of hand. She was still convinced he had left her so he could have kids, where everyone else could see he had left because he was sick of all the trouble.

My dp is still friends with him. My friend has demanded we all, including her kids cut contact with him, but my dp refuses.

Her husband eventually got his own place and wouldn't tell her where it was so she couldn't sit outside it. He was clear the marriage was over, but as far as my dp knows he isn't seeing anyone. He has completely disengaged from her, does try and contact the adult kids, but they won't respond so they dont upset their mum.

She has told him he has to wait 5 years for divorce. If he tries to divorce her, she will contest it. Her rage has simmered but is still there. I have felt so sorry for her and been there because she felt she could give him kids and it would have been ok, if she had. I shared my feelings over my own problems and really been there for her, whilst telling her, her behaviour isn't ok. But she won't seek outside help. She is calling all his family trying to find where he lives. Got the youngest son (now an adult) to call his family to check out if they know. He hasn't told his family either. Only my Dp knows where his house is.

However, last week while drunk, she admitted she actually COULD have kids. But didn't want anymore and was on the pill till she went through menopause. I am gutted, I shared so much of my own story, supported her when her behaviour was abusive to her husband because I understood how she felt. I feel gutted for her ex, while he said he didn't mind not having his own, but I don't think he got all the facts. I think he should have known all the truth. That she didn't want them. While drunk she was smug that he would dare have kids with someone else now, as he was afraid she would kick off. She still had control of him. I confronted her when sober and she confirmed it. She told him she could have kids, because she knew he would stay with her, if it wasn't her fault she couldn't give him a child.

Anyway, I have told her i feel utterly betrayed by her. That her problem was the age difference and if she couldn't have handled that, she should have ended the relationship rather than puttimg them both through this and lying to her husband.

I haven't told my Dp as he will will tell her ex. But don't know what to do. The ex has said he won't have kids, because it would feel like the ultimate betrayal. He would like them, but gave up that plan because he loved her and she could have them and wouldn't leave her because of it.

I think if he knew that she could have had them, but chose not to he may go on to have is own kids. I feel awful knowing this but don't know wether to tell him, because it could all blow up again.

My Dp would be really upset to find out I knew this but didn't tell him, because it's impacting his friends life.

I really don't know what to do despite being angry at her, I don't want to betray her. I don't want to cause more trouble, but think he should know so he ca make his own decision about kids. Rather than not having them, so he doesn't feel like he is betraying her.

OP posts:
Friendshipover · 15/02/2019 09:09

Move house ?

It's actually something I have been thinking about. Out of the area. Mainly because of my mum. But this could be the push we need to move.

OP posts:
Chilling19 · 15/02/2019 09:11

Tell your DP and let him deal with his friend. And never speak to her again.

SofaSurfer20 · 15/02/2019 09:43

Tell your dp

Your friend is an utter bitch

Dillydallyingthrough · 15/02/2019 10:00

OP I responded earlier on, I'm sorry I was quite harsh questioning why you excused the abuse.

You have realised your moms and friends behaviour is unacceptable. You have been surrounded by others that have behaved in a disgusting manner, you have done really well to break this unhealthy chain. I understand you live close, but please cut contact, ignore her, you opened up your innermost feelings to her and she used them to her advantage.

I would tell your DP, but make it clear you're not sure if it's the truth.

HeckyPeck · 15/02/2019 10:18

I'd tell her ex, support him all the way and block this woman from your life. She's a liar, a drama queen, nasty and violent. I can't see what good she brings to your life.

Absolutely. I would 100% tell her ex that she lied about not being able to have kids. He’s basing his decision to never have his own children based on that. I wouldn’t even consider not telling him.

Your “friend” is a terrible person. Not only a violent abuser, manipulative liar, obsessive stalker, but also forbidding her children from having contact with the man who raised them.

And being smug about her lies stopping him from ever having children. She’s a worthless piece of shit.

HeckyPeck · 15/02/2019 10:21

Just feel there is no good or right outcome.

The morally right and good outcome would be to not keep your disgusting friend’s secret as it’s actively preventing her ex from being able to move on and potentially be a father. I’d also tell him she was smug about it and not remotely sorry. Not to hurt him, but so he knows she she doesn’t feel bad about it and it wasn’t some mistake she made. She’s an awful person!

another20 · 15/02/2019 10:24

But then she has turned up on my doorstep, crying begging me to talk to her as I am the only one understands not being able to have a baby. My softer side then gives in.

SHE has targeted your vulnerability and manipulatived you re infertility. She is a highly toxic person and you are just another victim to use.

Look up co-dependency - to understand why you are involved in this futile toxic drama. Block her like everyone else has.

AryaStarkWolf · 15/02/2019 10:59

I would tell your DP and I would cut contact with her, she sounds horrendous

Starlight456 · 15/02/2019 11:00

Can I also add ex is not currently seeing anyone. He may change his mind anyway if he meets someone new .

NWQM · 15/02/2019 11:11

I’d tell my DP. Talk it through.

Is it your business? She told you and brought you into it. You have no way of knowing what’s true or not or why she did it other than that she was being manipulative and attentention seeking being 2 factors would be a safe bet.

From what you have said I might say to the ex ‘look she has said this. Sorry if that hurts you but just thought that if it changes any life decisions you might make you should know.’ It’s his life but he is a family friend too and not having kids is a massive life decision.

RageAgainstTheVendingMachine · 15/02/2019 11:25

They split up three years ago?
He should be NC with her by now, blocking all social media.
Not the she says twaddle back an forth.
Plus, with respect, if he meets The (next) One and she both wants to and can have his kids, I doubt that even two decades of loyalty to a controlling ex will sway that tbh.
That said, he doesn't sound that stable himself so maybe not being a father is a good thing all round, no child thrives around drama and hostility. If his next relationship works out better for him emotionally and he has closure, then he can work out what he wants then - nobody has such a hold over someone else that they would willingly sacrifice a new relationship/chance of a family.
All sounds ridiculous and immature.

FaithFrank · 15/02/2019 11:39

SHE has targeted your vulnerability and manipulatived you re infertility. She is a highly toxic person and you are just another victim to use.

I reckon what she said about having/not having children/taking the pill is a complete pack of lies. You will never know the truth. Just stay away from her.

Yes, returning to counselling would be a good idea.

Karigan195 · 15/02/2019 11:43

She’s sounds like a horrible domestic abuser and liar to me. You really call her friend?

PregnantSea · 15/02/2019 11:52

I would cut this friend out of your life. I know you feel sorry for her but I'm not sure why because her behaviour has been absolutely disgusting. She's emotionally and physically abused this poor man for years and now is stalking him?? That isn't OK. She should be arrested for what she's done, it's evil. You need to break contact from this woman before she drags you down with her. By continuing the friendship you are condoning this evil behaviour.

It's up to you whether or not you tell DP about what she's said, but I possibly wouldn't even bother because this continues your ties to her. Her husband will tire of her nonsense and find someone else eventually, and will have the kids he wanted. Men aren't on the clock. I'd just dump her as a mate and try and move on from the whole thing, start a new life without her.

BartonHollow · 15/02/2019 12:04

There are so many different issues here that are actually separate

Your friend is chaotic and negative - only you can decide whether there are other positives to warrant keeping the friendship.

RE the fertility, yes it's crap that she led you to think you were in solidarity struggling together and yes she should've been honest

BUT

if she already had 4 by 2 dads nearing or in adulthood it doesn't surprise me she didn't want to start again and have a 5th by a 3rd.

Her body her choice, you get to feel betrayed by the lie but not by the choice

And as far as her DP is concerned, telling him and I say this as nicely as I can is only shit stirring out of a misplaced sense of righteous indignation due to your own hurtThanks

Don't do it.

BartonHollow · 15/02/2019 12:08

And yes, if she's turned up on your door crying about none existent fertility issues whilst you are suffering then she probably has some underlying psychological issues and you need to remove her from your social life for your wellbeing.

Friendshipover · 15/02/2019 12:11

He should be NC with her by now, blocking all social media.

He is no contact. He won't even tell his family where he lives in case she finds out from one of them. He is very isolated.

BartonHollow I absolutely don't want to tell anyone because she hurt me. Nor have I judged her, at all, for not wanting more kids. I struggled to have the one I have. I couldn't cope with 4. It's entirely her choice and nowhere, have I said anything different.

If you have read the thread you will we it's become clear that she is using my fertility issues, to manipulate me and I have cut contact.

I appreciate all comments but the people who are telling me to end or consider ending the friendship are way behind. I have ended it and will move if I need to. I don't want anymore involvement.

OP posts:
Friendshipover · 15/02/2019 12:15

Unfortunately the ex doesn't think she is stalking him. He has acknowledged that if he treated her this way it would be abuse and stalking.

However, due to his own upbringing, he truly believes that if a man admits to being abused it makes them a 'pussy'. Which is his dad's words, not his.

Yes the ex does have some problems himself, mainly stemming from an abusive childhood himself. He carries guilt very heavily. Which is why, when he says he won't have kids, I do believe him.

OP posts:
Robin2323 · 15/02/2019 12:28

Well done for your self awareness regarding your ex friend.
Definitely have some more counselling but in the mean time , there are some really help ful vids off I tube:
Julia Kristina : 20 ways to say no - it is all about boundary setting for people pleasers.

Mrsmummy90 · 15/02/2019 12:52

She's abusive and belongs in jail. What a scum bag. Her poor kids.

HeckyPeck · 15/02/2019 13:34

Yes the ex does have some problems himself, mainly stemming from an abusive childhood himself. He carries guilt very heavily. Which is why, when he says he won't have kids, I do believe him.

Please tell him and free him from this burden OP. It sounds like he’s really suffering poor guy.

ChristmasFluff · 15/02/2019 15:19

I agree with Jess earlier that this is most likely a lie.

It isn't just the ex who needs to be no contact with this abusive woman. By remaining friends with an abuser, you are condoning her abuse, and providing her with a route to information about him, and a way to get information to him (via your DH). This is why Women's Aid recommended I cut out everyone who still had contact with the abusive ex. Going no contact with her would also demonstrate to her ex that you too truly believe her behaviour IS abuse and that he is being stalked.

She needs to be binned - and fast. And remember, if she goes on to harrass and stalk you, you can report her to the Police also.

CantStopMeNow · 15/02/2019 15:41

I think if he knew that she could have had them, but chose not to he may go on to have is own kids
She told him lies to control him.
That lie STILL has an emotional hold over him and so she is STILL controlling him.

Tell him the truth and set him free to find happiness OP.

UniversalAunt · 15/02/2019 15:53

How sad that the Ex has seemingly boxed himself into not having children. From what OP has said he had an abused childhood & no doubt left an negative emotional footprint. To not trust that he could be a loving parent can be understood & many people in this situation with the right person for them to love &/or with therapy make more than good enough parents, and find some healing from their childhoods.

Rather than bring the news to his very private door/sanctuary that his Ex lied to him over many years, & run the risk of tearing apart the trust he has in you & DH, it would a kinder & more fruitful act to encourage him to move on, get some help coming to terms with the impact & emotional hurt of an abused childhood. Certainly, Freedom programmme, or such like, would help him gain insight & he may Spot-A-Narc sooner.

Friendshipover · 15/02/2019 16:08

ChristmasFluff I have ended the friendship. I have said this several times. Wether this is the actual truth or another game, we are done.

I am happy to move if needs be.

Dp is going to be home soon. I will speak to him. Dp is very calm and measured, he wont drop it on him. He will think about ehats the best thing to do and how to do it. We definitely need to encourage him into seeking further support and help.

OP posts: