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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

I am ending my friendship, but should I tell her ex

87 replies

Friendshipover · 15/02/2019 06:00

Ok, I am going to try and keep this as shirt as possible. Been here about 9 years, but namechanged invade anyone recognises me.

I have a friend of about 20 years. She is a older than me. She had an horrendous first marriage at 16, he had affairs she had affairs, he became violent, 3 kids camebinto it and she finally got rid of him. She then had a child with someone who had mental health problems and was left with all 4 kids, doing it alone.

Anyway when she was mid 30s she met someone in early twenties. They seemed to get on really well most of the time. Her youngest was toddler and the others were 10 and older. Her Dp took the kids on, especially the toddler. He considers that child he own child, as the dad is nowhere to be found.

Anyway, it's been a rollercoaster of a relationship. Even from the start. Neither of them covered themseleves in glory. They would argue about anything and everything. Even in front of people. Neither trusted the other, she would accuse him of cheating, he would accuse her of cheating. She would purposely try and make him jealous by giving the house number out to men to call her on, he would get angry (never violent or close to) that men were ringing the house, so he would flirt with women in front of her she would get angry and on and on. These arguments happened every 6-12 weeks and both of them acted badly. Individually, they are nice people. Together, it just didn't work.

What did happen was that despite a long relationship of almost 20 years and marriage, she wouldn't put his name on any house they rented and would kick him out, if they fell out. He would have to spend the next 2-4 weeks begging to go back and she would eventually give in.

The root of their issues, from my point of view was that she couldn't have more kids and her age. She felt very insecure that he would go off with someone younger and who could have kids. He always reassured he loved her and was happy no having his own kids and viewed her kids as his.

I had fertility problems so sympathised. I justified, wrongly, alot of her behaviour and supported her because I knew to hard it was not being able to give the man you love a baby.

Anyway, her kids became adult and started moving out, she then hit her (now) husband a few times. And it got worse.

3 years ago she kicked him out again. He begged to come back for a few weeks. Then he decided it was done. At first she didn't believe it and said 'he will come crawling back'. He didn't. She went to where he was staying and kicked off, tried to attack him and he wouldn't come back with her. She became convinced he met someone else, so would sit all night outside where he was staying, would ring him and scream abuse. I felt so bad for her because she was hurting so much, but I was also getting concerned her behaviour was out of hand. She was still convinced he had left her so he could have kids, where everyone else could see he had left because he was sick of all the trouble.

My dp is still friends with him. My friend has demanded we all, including her kids cut contact with him, but my dp refuses.

Her husband eventually got his own place and wouldn't tell her where it was so she couldn't sit outside it. He was clear the marriage was over, but as far as my dp knows he isn't seeing anyone. He has completely disengaged from her, does try and contact the adult kids, but they won't respond so they dont upset their mum.

She has told him he has to wait 5 years for divorce. If he tries to divorce her, she will contest it. Her rage has simmered but is still there. I have felt so sorry for her and been there because she felt she could give him kids and it would have been ok, if she had. I shared my feelings over my own problems and really been there for her, whilst telling her, her behaviour isn't ok. But she won't seek outside help. She is calling all his family trying to find where he lives. Got the youngest son (now an adult) to call his family to check out if they know. He hasn't told his family either. Only my Dp knows where his house is.

However, last week while drunk, she admitted she actually COULD have kids. But didn't want anymore and was on the pill till she went through menopause. I am gutted, I shared so much of my own story, supported her when her behaviour was abusive to her husband because I understood how she felt. I feel gutted for her ex, while he said he didn't mind not having his own, but I don't think he got all the facts. I think he should have known all the truth. That she didn't want them. While drunk she was smug that he would dare have kids with someone else now, as he was afraid she would kick off. She still had control of him. I confronted her when sober and she confirmed it. She told him she could have kids, because she knew he would stay with her, if it wasn't her fault she couldn't give him a child.

Anyway, I have told her i feel utterly betrayed by her. That her problem was the age difference and if she couldn't have handled that, she should have ended the relationship rather than puttimg them both through this and lying to her husband.

I haven't told my Dp as he will will tell her ex. But don't know what to do. The ex has said he won't have kids, because it would feel like the ultimate betrayal. He would like them, but gave up that plan because he loved her and she could have them and wouldn't leave her because of it.

I think if he knew that she could have had them, but chose not to he may go on to have is own kids. I feel awful knowing this but don't know wether to tell him, because it could all blow up again.

My Dp would be really upset to find out I knew this but didn't tell him, because it's impacting his friends life.

I really don't know what to do despite being angry at her, I don't want to betray her. I don't want to cause more trouble, but think he should know so he ca make his own decision about kids. Rather than not having them, so he doesn't feel like he is betraying her.

OP posts:
strawberryredhead · 15/02/2019 07:13

I can’t believe everyone saying it’s none of the OP’s business - of course it is, it became her business when they fought in front of her and when she became aware of the abusive behaviour of her friend. So bizarre that we have such a culture of walking past and ignoring everyone’s lives - to me that is toxic.
So there is this guy who’s your dh’s friend and who’s being stalked in the most awful way - and you’re supposed to not get involved at all.
I’d keep your ex-friend shut out of everyone’s lives but support the ex. He needs to understand how abusive his wife is, it sounds like he still views it as a fairly normal relationship. If this was a woman who’d experienced abuse everyone would be saying about the freedom course or whatever it’s called.

strawberryredhead · 15/02/2019 07:14

Oh yeah - and I’d tell your DH what she said, allow him to tell the ex

Chocolatecoffeeaddict · 15/02/2019 07:25

You know way too much about their relationship. Not for you to involve yourself in.

TheJobNeverEnded · 15/02/2019 07:25

I would tell your Dp but also say it may be a lie to get him to contact her.

The ex has a sense of loyalty but he shouldn't. If it is true it is disgusting that she denied him the opportunity to be a father with someone else as the mother.

There are plenty of threads on I don't want another baby but my Dh does, and everyone says he has the right to leave.

Gina2012 · 15/02/2019 07:28

I can’t believe everyone saying it’s none of the OP’s business - of course it is, it became her business when they fought in front of her and when she became aware of the abusive behaviour of her friend. So bizarre that we have such a culture of walking past and ignoring everyone’s lives - to me that is toxic.

I think it's reasonable to offer help once or twice in a friendship if you choose to

I think carrying on offering help after years and years of that help making no difference becomes , over time, interference and investment in the drama

Factually it is none of the OPs business

The OP has chosen to make it her business to no positive outcome

It isn't her business and imo now is a good time to realise this and start living her own life.

This investment has paid no dividend

Get out now

Friendshipover · 15/02/2019 07:42

I am getting out now and I have tried in the past. I have distanced myself. But then she has turned up on my doorstep, crying begging me to talk to her as I am the only one understands not being able to have a baby. My softer side then gives in.

I have asked her not to involve me and it stops for a bit. But then slowly creeps and in and it's always the sadness around not having a baby, that she uses. But now it's done.

He needs to understand how abusive his wife is, it sounds like he still views it as a fairly normal relationship

Dp says he is starting to realise that it's not normal. But not fully.

OP posts:
UniversalAunt · 15/02/2019 07:42

Jessbow has made a very good point.
I suggest for now you keep your powder dry & don’t tell yr DH.

HerOverTheRoad is highly toxic & above, & thwarted as she cannot harass her ex. She will try any ploy to get her way.

She knows what your hot buttons are.
Her prodding & poking you is a sport in itself.
Share with your DH what a pain in the arse she is being so he may support you, but leave the grim detail of her duplicity out as you cannot verify it & it would be a complete shit storm if it came out.

As PPs have said, encourage your friend to move on & fill his life with joy.

Dillydallyingthrough · 15/02/2019 07:43

Completely agree with strawberryredhead it's the first post I've seen with clear abuse were no-one has said that you should encourage the ex to do the freedom programme. Your DP needs to encourage his friend to get a restraining order. Tbh I can't believe you excused her abusing him due to you thinking she had fertility issues- abuse is not excusable.

Friendshipover · 15/02/2019 07:45

It isn't her business and imo now is a good time to realise this and start living her own life.

I do have my own life. I have dp, I have a full time professional job that takes me all over the US. I have have hobbies all that don't include this woman or her ex husband. We just happened to live across the road and all became friends.

One friendship, even with the large amount of drama doesn't have to take over anyone's lives.

OP posts:
Friendshipover · 15/02/2019 07:48

Tbh I can't believe you excused her abusing him due to you thinking she had fertility issues- abuse is not excusable.

I didn't excuse it. I told her it was unacceptable and she needed help even offered to go with her. A few times she set up counselling, once she even said she was going. Then it turned out she wasnt. But I did sympathise with the reasons, why she felt so scared and angry.....and that was wrong.

OP posts:
Musti · 15/02/2019 08:01

What an abusive toxic vile woman. Yes, definitely tell her ex. The poor man needs to know and he could probably do with some counselling too tbh.

Poor kids if they consider him their dad but their toxic mum is stopping them from contacting him.

FickleFingers · 15/02/2019 08:02

I imagine in a few months the whole lot of them will be appearing on Jeremy Kyle..... Your friend is batshit crazy and I feel so sorry for her ex.
The poor guy has been living a lie and I would find a way to let him know.

MrsCollinssettled · 15/02/2019 08:06

My first thought reading this was that she'd told you this so that you or your do would tell the
ex. Whether she thought that would bring him back to her or just smoke him out who knows.

I'd tell the ex but be sure to tell him it might all be a pack of lies. Then get her out of your life. Tho that might be hard with her living so close.

Dyrne · 15/02/2019 08:15

Please get your DP to point his friend at the freedom programme. It was originally designed for women but men can access it too.

I’m shocked at the level of abusive behaviour you were willing to justify from your friend because of fertility issues. To go to that sheer level of violence, stalking and cruel emotional manipulation is way beyond the line of what should be accepted as someone being hurt and lashing out.

I think you need to look at your own boundaries of what you think is justifiable behaviour - have you ever hit your own husband and justified it by your fertility issues?

Friendshipover · 15/02/2019 08:22

The more I think about it, the more I think it could be a lie. So even more confused.

I think you need to look at your own boundaries of what you think is justifiable behaviour - have you ever hit your own husband and justified it by your fertility issues?*

No, of course I haven't. I haven't ever hit anyone. I have been abused and My boundries do need looking at. I have a history of letting people over stepping my boundries when they make me feel they are in pain and need support.

I did a lot of work when I left my exh. And I wouldn't let my Dp guilt me into anything, but I still struggle with non romantic relationships.

My mum was very similar to my friend and I have grown up letting her do the same. I went NC with my mother, about 6 months ago, after she sat outside my house for 6 hours because I didn't want to see her, after she called me screaming because I wouldn't give into her latest demand.

I have been thinking of returning to counselling, for this reason. I am definitely going to to now.

OP posts:
Dyrne · 15/02/2019 08:26

Hi OP I think it’s great you have identified the need for more counselling to look at your boundaries. Well done for cutting contact with your mother and for recognising you need to ditch your toxic friend.

Friendshipover · 15/02/2019 08:35

Dyrne thank you. It took me a long time to realise abuse wasn't just there in my romantic relationships.

OP posts:
MzHz · 15/02/2019 08:38

I’d support the ex by telling him what she’s said, BUT stating clearly that it could be a ploy.

The only thing I’d suggest to him is that he makes his own way in life and live a full and normal life. He doesn’t owe her the promise of never having kids, the marriage is over, he can do what he wants to to when he wants to do it! Nobody has any either to think badly of him.

MzHz · 15/02/2019 08:39

Right, not either

UniversalAunt · 15/02/2019 08:41

Clearly HOTR is adept at setting people up to be raged at, hurt & abused.

By sharing her latest news, she is hurting you, your DH & the Ex - triple hurtful disruptive whammy against the three people who are thwarting her compulsive need to abuse her Ex.

”Oh, the frustration of not knowing where he is, how can I howl at the moon at his doorstep, how dare you not tell me where he is. I’ll show you...” sort of thing.

Break the chain, do not share her latest revelation with DH or her Ex.
Yes, you are stuck for now with the sticky end of the lollipop but you have also gained a ‘truth’ about her.

She is a nasty abusive user of people.
You know you cannot trust her.
Now matter what she says, no matter how forlorn, no matter how perilously ill - see recent thread about narcs- she says she is, or actually is, please do not engage.

Ribbonsonabox · 15/02/2019 08:45

Yes I'd tell your DP. Shes abusive.
I was in an abusive relationship and if everybody had just kept thier nose out I probably wouldn't be alive today.
I wouldn't keep her secret for her. End the friendship and tell your do so he can tell her ex and her ex can try and disconnect and move on with his life.

LetsSplashMummy · 15/02/2019 08:57

I don't think the ex needs to know these details, it'll just get you dragged into the drama. I think the ex does need to know that it was a horribly toxic relationship in many ways and he doesn't have to consider her feelings more important than his any longer.

I would only tell him if you thought he was thinking of going back to her. Otherwise, what's to gain?

If he is with a new partner, he isn't realistically going to say "I don't want children with you because it would feel disloyal to my ex," it's just him working through his feelings. I wouldn't add more feelings to that mix but would help him work through his pain and draw a line under it.

GreenTulips · 15/02/2019 08:58

If he meets someone else - they will make a joint decision on in children surely?

Back away

UniversalAunt · 15/02/2019 09:00

Reading your more recent post & as you say, HOTR is not unlike your mother. Obviously it is harder to go NC when she is so near by.

Move house ? Wink

Friendshipover · 15/02/2019 09:08

Now matter what she says, no matter how forlorn, no matter how perilously ill - see recent thread about narcs- she says she is, or actually is, please do not engage.

It's funny you should say that. She has a history of making up or exagarting illnesses.

The last time she spoke to her ex she told him she had been diagnosed with life limiting heart condition, he told my dp. I didn't raise it with her or ask, to keep out of it.

A few weeks later she told me the same but was vague about it, then a few months later she didn't know what anyone was talking about denied ever saying it.

Her ex is definitely in the fog And I probably have been too. It's still no excuse.

I could always keep this to myself and then deny she ever told me if she decides to cause trouble and tell Dp I knew. But then I would feel awful lying to dp.

Just feel there is no good or right outcome.

OP posts: