Don't want DM to look after DD (after asking for it)

[Littleton]

I've name changed for this and sorry it's very long.

I'm due back to work part time in 3 months time when DD will be one. When DH and I have discussed previously he has maintained that it would be better for DD to be with my DM and DF as they dote on DD and she is comfortable with them. I know too that this ought to be better and less anxiety-making than nursery at such a young age. So have asked my DM if she and DF would be happy to have DD on my working days and they've said yes and in fact have pushed for this saying it's better than nursery.

Here is the problem: I'm not exactly happy with this and increasingly by the day dreading this arrangement. Not to massively dripfeed but DM is (always has been) a textbook narcissist and whilst I have really tried hard to be a "good daughter" for the last few years and especially since DD was born, I'm at the stage now where I feel like I've had enough of the constant put-downs, comparisons and casual insults.

I know I've been caught in the FOG for years and years and especially since DD, I am still playing the good daughter but I think I have finally had enough. I also have a bad relationship with siblings (another thread maybe)

Examples of DM behaviour:

• being told postpartum that I didn't have it as bad as her (at the same time as being told that she had no complications in all her births) - I had massive PPH, ventouseorceps, forceps, 7 days in HDU.
• being told (almost daily) that she wishes older DSis would have a baby, sometimes adding that she it's unfair that I've had a baby first.
• being told constantly that I don't know how to look after DD, "you're wrong"/"you don't know anything"/"but I did so and so" etc
• being told that when I go back to work DD won't care if I'm there or not.
• getting blanked for days (including my birthday) because I dared to say one thing I wasn't comfortable with DM doing to DD
• taking DD from me when she is crying to let her "have a go" (DD cries even more)

DM is also prone to temper tantrums. Sometimes (both before and since DD) she has shouted at me down the phone or hung up or just refused to talk to me. Other times I am the "best daughter" and only one who cares etc. You get the picture.

Problem now is do I continue with the plan for DM and DF to look after DD and continue taking the put downs and crap but feel semi-comforted that DD is in "familiar" surroundings OR do me and DH just find our own way and bite the bullet and put DD into nursery? DH and I don't necessarily want to put DD in nursery when she is so little but equally don't want to pass on the toxic relationship to DD. Don't get me wrong, I'm well aware how lucky I am to have DM and DF willing to take on DD as it's a big ask but can just envisage the price I'll pay is my self esteem and sanity.

Thank you if you have read all of that.

Tell me Mumsnetters what on earth do I do?

Put her in nursery. You don't need to justify it explain your parenting decisions to your mother. You don't need to prove anything g to her or convince her. She's a toxic person and uses people to feed her narcissism. She will use your dd and fill her head with all sorts of things. She will also deliberately do the opposite of what you want her to do with your dd.

Look for a childminder. Best of both worlds if you find a good one.

Her behavior has worked for her. That is why she does it. NOTHING you can do will minimise it, because it will be a shock to her that she is not getting her way, and she will escalate until she gets what she wants, or learns that acting like that won't get her what she wants - but that will take awhile.

I'm sorry, but it's like pulling the band-aid off. It WILL hurt. It WILL be painful. But you don't live with her, so you can remove yourself from her tantrums and her bad behaviour. If she yells at you over the phone, put the phone down. If she yells at you in person, walk away, leave her house or wherever it is you are (for awhile best avoid your place, harder to push her out!)

I'm really, really sorry. But if she is a narcissist, she won't let you do this easily.

But isn't your DD worth the fight? Isn't her health and safety and mental well-being worth you going through all this? Please find the strength to do it for her, even if you can't find the strength to do it for yourself.

It will be awkward and uncomfortable but you're a mother now and I think you need to put that first and put her in nursery.

If you want to take a gentler approach to telling them they won't be doing childcare, just say you've thought about it and you think three days is too much of a commitment; you want them to be able to enjoy their retirement and focus on being grandparents rather than providing regular childcare.

Of course, if they don't accept that graciously, you could be a little more explicit...

It’s great that you’ve woken up to this.

Trust your intuition and protective parenting instincts.

Your DH needs to get with the programme and support you, not to mention doing what is best for DC, which is NOT to have people like that in sole charge of them. He can also, as a parent, collaborate on finding appropriate, paid for childcare: options other than nursery include nanny share or a childminder. I had pretty average nurseries for DC1, wasn’t ideal but DC is now 11 and fine! Had a fantastic CM with DC2.

Both of you might find some of the recommended links and books on the Stately Homes threads on here helpful.

Nursery is the best option

She can also use it to control you. If you aren’t behaving she could suddenly not be available which will put you in trouble with work. You will then have to crawl back to her and behave.

My mother is very similar and I have no contact with her (currently pregnant with my first - due in April).

Before I went full NC we had decided to ask DH's mother to mind the baby when I return to work and she's happy to do so. My mother was not impressed at all when I told her but ultimately it's my and DH's decision. Not that it matters now because we don't speak.

PP's are right. It is your job to protect your child and handing her to your mother doesn't seem to be what's best for your child.

If you don't want to get into the real reason for changing your mind then tell her you've decided nursery is better for DD's social skills. You and DH have decided that's where she's going but thanks for the offer.

She can get as mad as she wants but it's up to you who minds your child. You could also use it as an opportunity to discuss the issues you have with her but only if you want to.

I ahave experience of an alcoholic GP (in law) wanting to babysit DC and saying no, against my H’s wishes (he was deep in FOG), I didn’t give reasons, just said no thank you. Broken record technique.

Put her in nursery... your mother will do the same to your daughter as she has done to you and that's not a risk I would take.
She may appear to dote on her but she does not have the childs best interests at heart of she is undermining you her mother constantly.

Don't make anything up or make excuses. The decision has been made. The end. Attila's post is excellent. It's not your fault and you have been conditioned not to challenge her.

Nursery all the way, you would completely regret handing your DD over to her.

Not only would she undermine your parenting and decisions at every turn she would also try to make you feel like your DD prefered her to you as she will be the person caring for her every day. She would be the one in control and it would be a lot harder to break the arrangement once it already started. Just be truthful and if you dont feel confident telling her to her face start communicating via text for everything so it gives you time to think of a response. If she gets funny about it just tell her the truth and leave it at that. She needs to learn or shes going to walk all over you forever.

Your DD will love nursery, she will meet friends and learn to play with other children.

Thank you all for your responses. I feel so relieved and validated reading these responses. Some have brought tears to my eyes as I am recognising just controlled/conditioned I have been and this is now my chance to break free - if I don't then I am just as bad aren't I. I will definitely seek some intensive therapy as I know this is just the beginning and desperately don't want to continue the toxicity to DD.

Definitely now will register to a nursery and get DD into her own routine. DH will take some leave to begin with for the first few months whilst she settles.

Yes I agree with PP that DH needs to get with the programme. I don't think he is fully aware of how I feel even though at times he has described DM as "overbearing". To be fair to him, he is as clueless as I am about babies so we've both been subjected to the whole barrage of DM "knowing best". And yes to PP, DH comes from a very nice and functional family so probably can't imagine what this must feel like. I'll be showing this thread to DH!

she would also try to make you feel like your DD prefered her to you as she will be the person caring for her every day

DM already says (has done since she was born) that once DD starts talking that will be asking for DGM and will be saying she doesn't want to stay at home with me...

We will concentrate now on what the plan for DD is. I can't face talking to DM or DF about it until we're clear on what we're doing but agree with PP that we'll just say it's better for DD to have an established and stable routine and ability to socialise/do activities etc...I see no point in trying to reason with DM otherwise. Maybe therapy will help me to actually stand up to her though eventually.

That’s a good approach - get it all signed, sealed delivered, get some therapy, learn to detach, grey rock, LC/NC, build your boundaries and emotional strength - and then just tell them at the last minute, when you feel stronger.

Be careful though not to do this just as she goes to nursery as those early fees weeks are unsettling for you and DD and you don’t need you DM kicking off at that time as well.

You can do this.

Put her in the nursery! Have a look at a few to find one you feel happy with. I had mixed feelings when visiting nurseries.I think that's okay, at first they seemed so unknown and full of strangers. But that feeling passed very quickly. the staff was great in settling DC, and they bonded well. They did so many fun things with other children. This would not have been possible at GPs. I can't see my mother letting them messy play with flour, water and glitter!

Yes, don’t discuss plans with your DPs until you and DH have it all sorted.

Specialist counselling would be good, and if that’s hard to access due to cost the literature recommended on here is low cost.

Boundaries could help, eg reduce contact and avoid discussing parenting with your DP.

Imagine the shock when DD talks and isnt asking for her DGM every moment of the day haha she sounds delusional and is being just pain nasty for the sake of it. I imagine once she has more grandchildren the obsession may lessen for her.

I'd ignore the previous comment about narcissistic/ toxic people (relationships) not doing damage in the first 24 months. I've worked in child development and would actually say that this period is crucial for how children build attachments- and even at this age they will be impacted by negative experiences.

I was scared of putting my 1yo in nursery but have to say 5 months on I'm glad we have and it's working well for us- DS gets a lot of experiences and socialisation that he wouldn't get with me at home for the 3 days I work.

I'm also aware OP you've said your DM has temper tantrums and won't talk to you... my fear would be that she'd do this and then you'd be stranded with no childcare at a moments notice?

Good luck 🙏🏻 Be strong! Get some therapeutic support. Make sure your dh understands what happened to you fully.
Put your dd first at all times, and you won’t go far wrong. Knowing you are not leaving your child with someone that has effectively emotionally abused you for decades will bring great relief. Who cares if she kicks off? Your child deserves to be protected from this.

I see my narc parents twice a year for an hour or so fully supervised. We leave the minute she starts her old routine of guilt tripping. I keep in contact via the odd text, no phone calls. For me this works. NC is another option. You have much work to do before you can fully ‘see’ what has been there all along. It takes a while to unpick the damage, but you are already half way there recognising your dp for what they are. Best of luck 💐

We use family as child care and we are so lucky to be able to do so but it can be an emotional minefield even with good relationships in place. There are times when things happen and boundaries are overstepped and battles have to be chosen carefully.
This would be so much harder for you to manage with your mum and her personality. It will be something she can use to leverage control over you.
Maybe you've heard really good things about a local nursery? Maybe you've decided your daughter would benefit from spending time with children her own age? Maybe you want your mum and dad to enjoy spending time with their grandchild without it becoming an obligation? Or maybe you tell the truth? Maybe it's about time she took responsibility for her behaviour and the consequences?

Or a child minder, if you are looking for a more homely setting.

But certainly not your Mum. You need to go to work feeling secure that your child is receiving the right influences - your Mum does not fit this bill, so you just need to make alternative arrangements and just tell her you have changed your mind. She will, of course, have a flid - but we have to endure all sorts of crap in defence of our children. If we don't defend their interests then who will? You just have to bite the bullet and do it!

You CAN do this!

I am a grandmother to 7 GC and I made rules for myself: never criticise, always boost the parents' confidence in every possible way, and never impose my methods on them. I am glad I did, as I have lovely relationships with all of them and I know they trust me to play by their rules. So....I have the joy of having lots of fun with the little ones.

Unless you can trust your Mum to do this, then you must make alternative arrangements, because you will be unhappy and the situation will rapidly go downhill.

Littleton I've not had time to read everything so I bet I repeat what others sat but....

IMHO being with grandparents is no better than nursery. My dd went there aged 8 months, two days a week, and loved it.

I didn't work full time, I was lucky I worked two then later three days a week. IMHO if you can work less and be at home part-time with your child it's a great compromise. It's not clear from your post (to me) if this is full or part-time work.

Being with your narcissistic mum won't be good for your dd.

Put baby in nursery.

I'd tell your mum this is what you have chosen to do.

If she makes life difficult I'd distance myself from her.

I'd tackle the things in your relationship with your mum separately from child care issue. But basically when she says anything you don't like, don't listen. Ignore, walk away, make a drink, go to the loo, become busy.

Go broken record, so if she says anything about yuour sister having baby first just say "This is the order in which things happened. I am so glad my baby is here and my sister's fertility is not my business."

Another thing to note - be forewarned that that your dc will be effectively 'dumped/replaced' in dm's time and 'affections' once your dsis has a baby.
So i wouldn't be encouraging dc to have a 'close' bond with dm.