Confronting DH about his sulking...part2

[jamaisjedors]

New thread :
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/relationships/3448545-Confronting-DH-about-his-sulking?msgid=84022238

First one is running out of space due to all the amazing support I have had from all you mners!

To summarize, H is a serious sulker, gives me the silent treatment to get his own way or to "punish" me.

I was ready to leave, almost out the door over Christmas/New year.

Things have calmed down now as he has agreed to see a psychotherapist and suggested marriage counselling. I have my own psychotherapist.

Now trying to work through why on earth this has happened and make a calm, rational decision about my future and our family's future.

[TowelNumber42]

I rather suspect that when you split you'll discover that many other people find him to be insufferably arrogant too.

[jamaisjedors]

I suspect you are both right

[MsDogLady]

...the other day in bed he started listing all the people who were interested in him before we got together.

...he has stopped being tactile, despite me saying I would like some affection.

...he got cold and angry about a stupid thing.

...this weekend, he totally ignored me giving directions to a place I know how to get to and we ended up driving around the countryside.

...he wil NEVER NEVER take it [advice and guidance] from me.

...am now nervous about the holiday again but...other people we know are also going...so hopefully that will dilute the atmosphere sufficiently.

@jamaisjedors, aren’t you so very tired of being treated as Less Than by this mean-spirited, egocentric, contemptuous man?

To know that your children are witnessing and internalizing this is chilling.

[Consolidatedyourloins]

Is this the man who kept toddler locked up on living room with him?

[jamaisjedors]

No!

[AstralTraveller]

Jamais He's foul. Utterly ghastly and vile. All the good points you have listed. Firstly those things still aren't filtering down to cause you happiness and secondly, have you ever thought that possibly he is only able to be all the wonderful things because he is working off all his ire onto you? Leave him to manage his own life without a regualr whipping post (you) and the cracks will show soon enough I guarantee it.
Get angry. Furious. Be your own best friend.

[jamaisjedors]

You are right about the shipping post, the marriage counsellor brought that up (not in those terms!) - she questioned why he took things out on me when he was angry with others. She also asked me to describe how that felt for me.

[RandomMess]

Make sure your ducks are truly in a row he will turn very nasty when you end it, how dare you tarnish his image...

[jamaisjedors]

And YES I am absolutely fine with being treated as "less than".

I might have felt I deserved it or that it was true in the past but I am getting past that now.

I was reminded recently how much I achieved alone (but with his support at the time) when I ditched a load of old course work etc from the basement.

It was quite invigorating to see all the work I had done and how hard I pushed myself.

I want to hold onto that feeling.

[thefirst48]

Oh OP you really can't see the wood for the trees can you.

[jamaisjedors]

Omg I mean I am absolutely Finished with being treated as less than!!!!!

[Lisette1940]

Darn auto correct OP

[RandomMess]

That's a relief!

[Greenmum2019]

^^
He is very successful, also runs a charity in addition to a more-than full-time job, is hard-working, highly intelligent, helpful to others, reliable, financially stable, pratical, a very hands-on and thoughtful father...



Could it be that he gives so much to everyone else that he has run dry when it comes to you?

I know I was a victim of this with my husband.

Things get ingrained.... Maybe he will catch up with you in how empowered you have become. Maybe he won't. But if he does.... Then will.be the real test because you will need to feel those natural feelings of love and lust towards him again to get the relationship to move into a new age/transition phase

[jamaisjedors]

Certainly possible... and things definitely get/have got ingrained which doesn't give me a lot of hope for the future.

[16041per]

In regards to children, I can understand wanting things to work out for the kids as I also tried to make things work with my H for about six months last year. We have now separated. My son has commented that things are more relaxed now and easier. I knew I was stressed but I did not realise that everyone in the house was actually stressed too and things were tense for a long time. I think kids often want what is sold as the ideal nuclear family. In reality they want a calm and stable environment and if this means parents separating I think they understand that because they live and breathe the tension in a dysfunctional partnership. It's sometimes a relief for them to hear parents are separating.

[MsDogLady]

His relentless cruel and demeaning behavior is meant to destabilize you. He is an emotional abuser, and this behavior is considered a form of domestic violence.

Most abusers put on a mask in public, but at home they will have a target to control and manipulate in both overt and subtle ways: verbally attacking, belittling, criticizing, invalidating, ignoring, withholding, and dismissing.

Emotional abuse will often follow the same cycle as physical abuse. The abuser will let up when the partner reaches a breaking point or strengthens boundaries, but will eventually resume the emotional battering.

His deep need to control you has nothing to do with you and everything to do with his belief system and the dysfunctional coping mechanisms in his personality. It is true that he is choosing to abuse you, but it is pervasive and has become as natural to him as breathing.

Couples counseling is not recommended when one partner is an abuser. If an unskilled counselor empathizes with him and encourages him to express his feelings, his sense of supremacy will be reinforced. There is also a risk that the abuser will manipulate the session or be vengeful afterward.

Individual therapy can only be beneficial if he is highly motivated to change, becomes hyperaware of his destructive behavior, and believes therapy to be beneficial to himself. A major stumbling block to a positive outcome is that abusers enjoy the gratification and ego-boost they receive from controlling their victim.

He is likely not divulging his attempts to destabilize you to his therapist—i.e. recent behaviors I listed upthread.

Your individual therapy can be a godsend to help you express yourself, boost your self-esteem, organize your thoughts, and strengthen your boundaries. However, no amount of strengthening on your part will change his belief system and ego needs.

[MsDogLady]

ego-boosts...victims.

[Skittlesandbeer]

I’m interested in when you were describing how the dynamic was when you first got together. That he was the ‘expert’ on a lot of things, things to do with his culture I presume. And you were the interested student?

I bet you were a terrific student- engaged, curious, fun, and building a sexual charge at the same time. Who wouldn’t love that package? It was just missing a vital component, that has now bitten you in the ass. You were intelligent in your own right, and no doubt could have been a great teacher if the context were different. On topics you knew loads about. But that’s not how the cookie crumbled.

There’s a reason why therapists always ask couples to look back to ‘what first attracted you to each other’. It’s very telling. Sometimes it gets you back in touch with a partner’s good traits, and the current animosity can be improved. Sometimes it really highlights how much you ‘getting together’ was due to the context of that time, and how different life is now.

Seems to me your DH is sulking because you’re not his sweet wide-eyed student anymore. He misses that ego drug. And you’re at this childish behaviour from a man you once thought of as knowledgeable and mature? I think once we women have real children, we lose patience with adult childishness pretty quickly!

I have a male friend who is very keen to marry and have kids, but is stuck in this cycle of dating women from a particular ethnic group who are recent arrivals to our country. He speaks their language and loves their culture (and obviously there’s a sexual type at play). He’s naturally fairly dominant (in a positive, charismatic way). He’s wealthy too, so it can turn a girl’s head a bit! It all goes swimmingly while he can be their gallant tour-guide, instant social connection and provide them with a great multi-lingual start to their new lives. He’s been engaged 3 times in the 15 years I’ve known him.

Then at some point the women start to find their feet, often through professional work contacts, and start being slightly less available. We watch them become confident in English, and woebetide them, occasionally gently correct him on their culture (or his!). He HATES it. It messes with the dynamic he prefers. He sulks, they don’t notice (or fall into line, or apologise). Next thing I’m getting the text from the women saying ‘hope we can stay in touch, we’ve broken up’. I’ve come to the conclusion that neither party is really at fault, it’s just not a secure foundation for ‘real life relationship’ to start this way. A bit like holiday romance. It’s too surreal to go the distance, most of the time. Too much fun, not enough working through whose turn to put the bins out.

I’m not arguing that your DH is not a lot of the things people are saying on this thread- eg abusive. But whether you’re looking to cobble together a future with him, or leave him behind and co-parent, it might be useful to look at the expectations you both had at the start. They need serious recalibration. And there just might be some epiphanies in there for both of you?

[Cheerbear23]

This is what I took from your most recent posts: that he was nicer, more affectionate and tactile as he was hoping for sex. You said no, so he went cold again. He then lists all the people who were interested in him before you got together / how did he frame this? It’s such an odd thing to do in a relationship. Designed to upset you no doubt,

[Seeingadistance]

Jamais, your comments about his public persona which is entirely at odds with his private persona reminded me of my grandfather, my DM's father. He and my granny were GPs in a small rural community and I always knew that my grandfather was admired and respected by his patients. I also knew that my grandparents' marriage had always been an unhappy one. My DM once said to me that she "didn't think" he hit my granny, which means that he might have done. He certainly had affairs, and kept her short of money. I knew him as a man who was domineering, refused to let my granny socialise with her friends. As an elderly woman, my granny had a miserable life with him. They have both been dead for about 20 years now.

Anyway, a couple of years ago, my work brought me into contact with an elderly couple from the village where my g/parents were doctors. I did a home visit with this couple and in conversation the woman worked out that I was The Doctor's grand-daughter. She was beside herself with delight and told me how wonderful my grandfather was, how he had visited them in that house, had sat in the very chair I was sitting in! She waxed lyrical about how wonderful he was, how handsome, how clever, how attentive a doctor and on and on. Full on hero worship. And I sat there and smiled and nodded.

And I left their house, drove away and had to park up before I went back to work, and had to take time to process the massive disconnect between this Hero, and the man I knew. The experience really unsettled me, and then I thought - that is what my mother grew up with! I'm a generation removed, and it was just one conversation, but my mother and her sister and brothers had to live with this misplaced hero worship of their, behind closed doors, abusive father every day!

As it happens, one of my neighbours is ages with my DM, grew up next door to her and is still friendly with her younger brother. That neighbour said to me last year that my mother and her siblings were always callous. That there was a hardness about them. (This wasn't just a random remark - it was relevant to the conversation we were having at the time) I can see that that hardness, that callousness, came out of living with the disconnect between their father's public and private personas, particularly growing up in a small community where he was well known.

Your children, like my mother and her siblings, will also come to know, if they don't already, that disconnect, and it will affect them in some way.

You know, he won't change. He might be able to put on an act to appease you for a while, to keep up appearances, but he is who he is.

[Arkengarthdale]

All our neighbours and people in the village thought my dad was lovely, but he was an utter bastard at home and was vile to my mum. We as children were gradually taught to despise her. Don't put your children through that. The effects last a lifetime.

[jamaisjedors]

Lots of useful comments, thanks, lots to think about.

There's definitely a disconnect between our roles when we first met and our lives now.

In the last two years I have moved into a very high up position where we both work, I think that has contributed to things getting worse although it corresponds to H's health problem being diagnosed too so difficult to tell.

H won't admit this is a problem, despite his therapist apparantly pointing this out.

In other news, we are in holiday, weather is beautiful, there are other people around and H is being fine, although he keeps pestering me to kiss him when we are alone.

He has also just announced that because of a pain in his knee, he won't be joining us on the second part of the holiday which is trekking.

I'm not really sure how to react, he has made the decision on his own (although he had made some noises about this before we left). I don't know if he's expecting me to cancel to stay with him or whether he will use this against me in the future as proof of my heartlessness or what...

If it's really true, I am quite relieved although the DC will be sad and feel bad for him I know.

I actually have no idea what a "normal coupply" would do in this situation.

[jamaisjedors]

Actually I feel pretty heartless reading that back.

But on some ways that's another sign things are on the way out, I don't really feel any compassion which is awful, I would with anyone else...

[RandomMess]

If it were us the other parent would go ahead with the original plan!!!

The other person would have to be very unwell to cancel.