How to deal with narcissist & abusive FIL

[user12345678912]

Hi folks NC here just encase I become identifiable.

Needing some advice on how best to deal with my FIL who is basically a total dick!

Sorry for the essay but a bit of background to my post is:

My DH & I & are very close, we are literally best friends & I could never imagine my life without him. In the reasonably short time we've been together we've bought a home, got married & are now due our first DC together very soon. My DH will credit me with "saving him" (an accolade I'm not too comfortable with as believe he done this himself but acknowledge the role I have played) from his own mental health struggles & for long periods of depression. He will acknowledge that before we met he was an angry person who didn't understand anything about himself. My DH has been through quite a bit including a previous failed marriage that didn't end great for my DH but he has his own DS from it who is very much loved & part of our life. However the main source of my DH's struggles which he has only fairly recently recognised comes from the relationship with his father.

My FIL abused him physically & emotionally all his childhood. Some of the stories are literally too heartbreaking to post (particularly given my current hormonal state) but a theme of violence, indifference, mind games & control all characterised my DH's childhood. Some of the examples I feel able to describe were at the age of 10 he was beaten by the side of a football pitch by him for not playing well enough & other parents had to intervene to pull him off my DH. My DH describes the worst thing about that being was the shame & embarrassment he felt that another parent became involved & not upset at the beating. Another one at about the age of 13 was after being at swimming in the next town one Sunday night my DH missed the last bus home & called my FIL to ask for a lift. He laughed at him & told him "to get to fuck & walk it". The walk was literally a 7 mile walk along a poorly lit duel carriageway. It took him hours to get home. He recalls doing it, getting in & no one saying anything about it. He would regularly laugh & mock my DH calling him "gay" or a "poof" often in front of people who would often join in the ridicule. He recalls no incidences of love or affection from him except when he was drunk but then the next next day it would be even worse again.

My DH witnessed similar abuse to his DM & DS. He controlled family life growing up. He kept them poor & to this day talks about all the savings he had but would never put his hand in his pocket to help anyone & his literally let terrible financial things happen to his family & not stepped in because he was ultimately ok!

My DH left home young & over the years my FIL has continued to behave in controlling & abusive ways towards him. Yes the physical abuse stopped (my DH is quite strong & could always handle himself) but the emotional abuse & control continued.

He is a particularly unpleasant man. He is a complete narcissist. Textbook narcissist who complains & moans about everyone & everything. Everything is from his agenda & he can switch from the overbearing controlling narcissist to the one who shows no interest in anyone else. His stories always start about how someone has wronged him & or has behaved badly when he in my opinion is the worst kind of person. He has very little in his life now. No hobbies or interests or friends. Which I may add is the opposite of my DH who has lots of these things. Part of the problem is I believe he is jealous of my DH & always has been. He continues to control my MIL who according to my DH has all her life tried her best to counter act his behaviour but is largely powerless. Some of the things he has done to her over the years is horrendous but at the same time I can't help feel that her fear of him has made her complicit in the abuse that my DH experienced.

My DH has dealt with it over the years by having as little to do with him as he can. They have no relationship but ultimately because he is still with my MIL he has had to see him & his behaviour is so over bearing that it still affects my DH whenever he has been around him.

It all came to a bit of a head a couple of years ago. I lost my own DF following an illness. A man who was literally the opposite of my FIL, fucking typical eh? In that time my DH was my rock & grew very close to my own family. I believe he witnessed first hand true love & support of a normal family unit. It was around this time that my DH began making realisations about his own childhood & we would talk for hours at a time about it. My DH had never previously spoken to anyone before about the abuse let alone acknowledge it was abuse. It broke my heart to know what he had been through but I was so proud of him for understanding what it was & the effect it has had on my DH's life ever since.

One night not long after my own DF passed my DH was at his parents house, I wasn't there. My FIL made some typically narcissist remark which for my DH was the straw that broke the camels back. My DH & him had a very aggressive argument & my DH walked out & never spoke to him for months. He felt empowered & relief that he had cut ties & no longer had to be around him. In that time my DH's family were desperate for them to 'make up' & move on by my DH wasn't interested. After some time my DH then decided to confide in my MIL about his realisation of the years of abuse. My MIL broke down & acknowledged initially all that happened. Took responsibility for her role & supported my DH's right to not what my FIL in his life. This reaction was unfortunately short term. Very quickly, as in within hours, my MIL went into shut down mode & wouldn't talk about it anymore to my DH & to this day never has. She acknowledges that DH & FIL don't have relationship & that FIL is a pretty miserable human being but that's it. Very quickly it went back to sweeping it under the carpet & behaving as if nothing has happened. Even though she is utterly miserable in her life with FIL his control is just too much for her to break through.

SIL acknowledged it much more although doesn't acknowledge the extent her own abuse at the hands of him as much as my DH said it happened. She still has a relationship with FIL but much of that I believe is for my MIL's sake.

My DH eventually decided to write a letter to my FIL detailing his childhood experiences & his understanding now. He very quickly got a response from FIL apologising for it all. He claimed he didn't remember most of it but if my DH said it happened he's not going to say it didn't. He excused a lot of it by saying he was treated harshly by his parents & it's just a generational thing where mine find it difficult to show affection even though he was only 2 years older than my own DF was! It was a difficult one for my DH to digest as on the one hand he got an apology but on the other hand felt it muddied the waters in terms of how my DH would approach their relationship going forward. Could he continue to have NC with a man who has apologised? Maybe he could change? FIL's response was also what I believe led my MIL to want to keep sweeping it under the carpet & move on as if it's all sorted. Since then my DH has somewhat muddled through & as much as he can maintaining NC with FIL although it's hard & there has been times whereby FIL was forced up on him or into situations my DH & I would rather he or we weren't in mainly by MIL. MIL & DH's relationship has suffered in this time & it's hard to witness. I know how much DH means to MIL but her inability to talk to my DH about it has put a massive strain on their relationship & led to a lot of hurt on DH's part that she can't support him more.

Up to present day and as I said earlier we are due our own DC very soon. From my own point of you I am really struggling to deal with what role FIL will have in their life & feel I'm beginning to obsess over this. I accept that a lot of that will be to do with my own personal grief at my own DF not being here anymore & how hard that is for me. However I am also finding it hard to understand what role he can play in my own DC's life when he has caused so much damage to everyone else & continues to to this day. He has never bonded with my SS even tho he is like the easiest SS in the world so not figuring it would be any different with my DC but at the same it causes me real anxiety. A few months ago he actually said "oh I've just realised I will be the one grandpa for the baby, I'll be quite important to him then". As if I could forget about my own DF's passing. At the time I actually didn't react but I replay his words over & over in my head & I feel like I hate him!! And I don't hate anyone so for me this is extreme.

My DH has assured me that he will never be allowed or in a position to hurt our DC but I really feel anxious about it to the point I'm waking up through the night thinking about him (& to go for a pee for about 100th time).

FIL knows I don't like him & tries to be super friendly but I find that just so irritating. It's like the huge elephant in the room that doesn't get dealt with. I also could be adding this into the mix too because I dislike him so much but I also find him creepy. He invades your personal space & on occasion when sitting near me has put his hand on my leg, has touched me round the waist a few times under the guise of "I'm just trying to squeeze through" when really he didn't need to as well as commenting once once on how short my dress was at a wedding & could I not get one to fit me. He was also strangely close to my DH's ex & would meet her for drinks after they had split up! I still find this weird as does my DH. As well as this he has recently started popping over uninvited to our home & tries to just walk in, I know make sure door is constantly locked! Given my current pregnancy state I have a lot of the time been in pjs & nighties with no bra on etc. I find it very uncomfortable especially the last two occasions when my DH hasn't been home. The last time I actually stayed up the stairs & only spoke to him from over the bannister as I thought "no why should I?" We don't have any relationship & you are coming to our house uninvited, I shouldn't need to sit & have a coffee with you when I know what done. No one in my life just drops in without proper notice even my own DM who I'm very close with. Given my current state & also once DC is born & me attempting to BF I just feel really uncomfortable with these unannounced visits & feel it's another form of control that he's trying to exert.

My DH is doing really well & mentally the strongest he has been in his whole life & i'm unbelievably proud of him. He can actually be very pragmatic in his dealings with his DF & in a way i feel it is me who is struggling more with it right now hence why I try to
hold back on bringing it up with him every 2 minutes!

Anyway apologies again for my massive essay but this has been building up for so long now & felt the need to rant.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated ❤️ xx

It is really not at all possible to have any sort of a relationship with a narcissist.

You all need to stay well away from your DH's family of origin and have no contact with any of them. His mother is her husband's enabler; I would not let her off the hook either and she really is his hatchet man here. She cannot be at all relied upon either.

FIL has treated both his son (the scapegoat in his family of origin) and you as his wife abusively; he should not therefore have any access to your DC. No-one should be letting this man into your home. How is he attempting to get into your home?. Please tell me he does not have a key. You may want to seek police advice re this level of harassment; they will not think you would be wasting their time.

Would your DH be at all willing to see a therapist and ideally one at that who has no familial bias about keeping families together?. He could really do with seeing such a person as well as addressing his own fear, obligation and guilt. He may also want to read "Toxic Parents" by Susan Forward as a starting point and he could also read the "well we took you to Stately Homes" thread on these pages.

Reading the websites entitled "Out of the FOG" and this by Reddit may also be useful www.reddit.com/r/raisedbynarcissists/

@Attila is right OP. Possibly with a proviso about the MIL.
OP, you've not said much about her but I'm tending to form the opinion that as she admitted to the abuse and then clammed up PLUS you're not saying anything bad about her; that's she is also a victime here.

However, like Atiila says, the fact that she stood by and yes, enabled the abuse is very worrying in terms of her own character traits. Think long and hard about her OP and I would certainly recommend that you see away away from her own marital home.

If you choose to see her be very very careful about any information which, how should we say, could be used against you at a later date.

OP, you say you are far gone in your pregnancy. Expect an escalation of abusive behaviours if you do not go NC. This is because your emotional thinking will be running rampant right now because of the hormones and it's you OP, who will be the veritable feeding ground.

The letting yourself into your own home thing is creepy but not unexpected. I am surprised he's got that far - he must have been pushing that boundary for a long time. You MUST take back control over this boundary and do so in a way which provides as little fuel to him as possible.

Keep your door locked or get the key back or even change the locks. If he's had a key then expect that he will have been in having a good old root at some point. You deserve to feel safe and secure in your own home at this important time. (Indeed any time but it's imperative you get your calm zen back for this next stage).

Good luck OP and for you and your little one x

His mother is her husband's enabler; I would not let her off the hook either and she really is his hatchet man here. She cannot be at all relied upon either.

^Completely agree

I'm not sure he's a narcissist. A narcissist will NEVER apologise.

As for your own actions... start practicing some short sentences for FIL when he intrudes:

Get out
Stop doing that
No

You have to put yourself first, your DH seems to be on the way to finding hi sway through it. Now is your turn to catch up and do the same favour for yourself. Best of luck working your way through it.

@Waitrose - that's simply not true. A narc will apologise (but it will be false of course) if he sees some benefit to it. There may even be a slight modification in behaviour depending on their own level of cognition but it won't be long before normal service resumes.

This N is not aware of his behaviour by the way.

I'm not sure he's a narcissist. A narcissist will NEVER apologise. Oh, my father is a classic narcissist and he apologises as part of his attack!

Apologise and then point out how hard it is for him... how hard he had it... how it isn't his fault. click back into Peter Perfect / Fat Controller mode. Then if challenged click back to the poor me emotional blackmail until you seem cowed and click back he goes...

He manages his appearance very well. It takes a very dispassionate look at him to see him doing it!

Ooh! I found a link that describes him really well, in paces

pro.psychcentral.com/recovery-expert/2017/02/when-a-narcissist-makes-an-apology/

If he does apologise it won't be a genuine apology it will be a tactical manoeuvre
I agree the only solution is to cut him out completely he sounds extremely bad
Hopefully he will die soon that would be a real relief for everyone

My dh had similar dps except mil played your fil.
When ds was born she couldn't accept dh had dared to move on from being a doormat to her every whim and had a nice life that didn't include her. She snubbed our ds, and despite dh practically begging fil to see us all he too followed her out of our lives.
My dh saw them for the abusive pair they were and he /we moved on with our lives.
Be prepared fil will be exactly the same man. You need to keep him away from your home. Let dh decide if he visits but I would not cross his door or take your dc either. Your dc is not a plaster to cover the awful past your dh suffered.

I would also suggest try not to spend too much time thinking about this man because just the thought of him is probably so triggering that it sends you into a rage and that's very damaging to you.

Trying to minimise him, try to 'grey him out' imagine a full colour photo of him and then gradually turn down the colour until it goes to black and white and then until it fades to nothing
that's what you need to do with him

Tell him to stop dropping by as it is both inconvenient and it is making you uncomfortable. You need your rest and spontaneous visits will be even less welcome once the baby arrives. Set up boundaries now. I am sure your husband would have no problem with you saying this - would be great if he were there, but I suspect he is making sure that your husband isn't around when he drops by for a reason.

Bloody hell FIL sounds terrifying! Can you change your door so that you don’t need to remember to lock it as it can only be opened with a key? I know that sounds extreme but in the fog of sleep deprivation you may well forget to lock it!

You said that he used to meet your husband's ex after they broke up?
what he's doing here is telling himself 'yeah I pull here if I wanted to I could out do my son and take his woman'
It's all to send a message that he is the top dog, he is at the top of the hierarchy the alpha male etc

In his mind he is lord of all he surveys
He is accountable to no one and can do as he pleases
He is treated his children with cruelty and contempt and gotten away with it
the appropriate response to this is 'I wouldn't piss on you if you were on fire Dad'

Any boundaries that you erect he will break, the best thing to do is to go complete and utter no contact scorched earth nuclear option
that way you can escape otherwise as he becomes elderly he will become more and more cruel and it will feel as if he is trying to kill his son before he dies himself

Thank you for all your replies so far.

I think when you are in the midst of a family like this & all the different roles that are at play it can be hard to have that clarity of really how bad it is. Especially when it's only my DH & me that are exposing it for what it is.

While I have sympathy for MIL & know that she has had a life of hell with this man I do believe that deep down she is a good person however I can't get over enabling of him to the detriment of her son. And also on recent times the complete lack of acknowledgement of what my DH has went through. Is she so terrified of him that she has allowed my DH to become the scapegoat? He is literally been like the sacrificial lamb & even still they are protecting him. That's something I can't quite get over.

I don't believe his apology for one second & the fact he offered it so quickly after receiving a letter covering a life time of abuse is so fake & all about feathering his own nest for his next form of attack. Playing the victim been his favourite role ever since.

And your right I think he knew DH was out the last time as his car wasn't in drive but still thought it ok to come in. I've spoke to DH about the unannounced visits & he said he will deal with it & totally understands so hopefully that will stop. He doesn't want him appearing & totally gets how uncomfortable I would feel. I've never spoken to my DH about the creepy feeling I get. For some reason I just feel it's a bridge too far for him given all the realisation he has now. I think for a long time my DH felt he would just turn out like him I.e angry etc that the shame of having a 'creep' father is almost too much to bear. Maybe I'm thinking too much about DH's feelings here though & I should share with him my concerns but just aware I don't want to pile even more into him about how horrible his father is, even though he knows it!

And I agree I do need to try & phase him out. He is such a nasty piece of work that will never have a place in my life but currently with pregnancy emotions & hormones I'm giving him to much head space & I need to get a grip of that!

Thank you again ❤️

If you stick to your guns and continue to denounce this man then other people may feel emboldened to do the same thing
Your mother-in-law is probably beyond help

This is really very simple. Cut off FIL completely. It is OK to be rude. It is OK to say I don't want you in my house. You will never meet your grandchild.

You are turning into MIL. This is how it starts: hand-wringing over being rude, over other people being sad if you do the right thing, over the fact that he is the dad/grandfather, over thinking you can't object to being touched up if he's subtle enough. No. No. No. Don't be her. It escalates. Boiling frog.

You are already letting him overstep boundaries in ways you would never have permitted anyone to do before DH. See? Boiling frog. Get out of the pot. Yes the diners waiting for a slice of frog will squeal as will the lobsters waiting at the side. Still, get out of the pot - go NC.

The hand on your leg the hand on your waist, this is absolutely deliberate
he is deliberately trespassing on his son's woman, invading his sons territory by invading his wife

He is grooming you
he wants you to be compromised and embarrassed
he wants there to be an incident that you feel ashamed about but he will be gloating about it because he knows he's got one over on his son and done something slightly sexual with his son's wife

My own DM is a very good support to us both & tbh I think he is using that now too to cause my MIL upset. It's as if he goes "aw he's ditched you for her, he isn't much of a son after all" I can see it all being played out so clearly!

My own DM has no qualms about calling him out or telling him to basically fuck off if he appears but I guess me & DH are still in that in-between stage, mainly because of MIL, where we are not quite able to go completely 'nuclear' with it through not wanting her to hurt anymore because she really has very little in her life!

I really like that term 'nuclear' tho & maybe when DC comes along I'll have the strength or maybe just a complete lack of giving a fuck to do it! 👊

In this situation your mother-in-law is being used as a hostage, if you upset father-in-law you know that she will suffer

Omg I can see it so clearly about the touching thing now & why he is doing it.

I've never even said to anyone before, not even my DM who knows everything else! I guess you almost want to pretend it didn't happen because the thought of it makes you feel so sick! Plus I always viewed myself to be so strong that I would never allow myself to be the victim of any unwanted advances but I guess it can happen to you & no I haven't dealt with! I actually feel so sick now 🤢

Do I tell DH the now? I'm literally about to have this baby so in a way don't want to ruin this special time with anything to do with but at same time I can bear the thought of him being around when I'm getting to grips with having a baby & all the that it involves xx

Keeping secrets about abuse to avoid hurting the enablers? Slippery slope.

There's a reason your MIL has little good in her life. She has persistently chosen to do the wrong thing when faced with a moral choice. She always hid the abuse. Don't be her.

he knows it was wrong he did it deliberately and he is enjoying your discomfort it makes him feel Powerful
You already feel uncomfortable and confused, you find it hard to believe that he did it deliberately because that's an awful thought, you have a sense of shame and humiliation that makes you feel as if it was your fault
you know that if you call him out he will deny it and make you look ridiculous or worse
That's why he does things like this it allows him to control people
can you tell your mum will she be understanding or does that just feel too weird?

I don’t think you need to phase him out, you need to go nc with him and the family now, as does your dh. If your fil turns up tell him to go, if he doesn’t simply phone the police