How to deal with narcissist & abusive FIL

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Hi folks NC here just encase I become identifiable.

Needing some advice on how best to deal with my FIL who is basically a total dick!

Sorry for the essay but a bit of background to my post is:

My DH & I & are very close, we are literally best friends & I could never imagine my life without him. In the reasonably short time we've been together we've bought a home, got married & are now due our first DC together very soon. My DH will credit me with "saving him" (an accolade I'm not too comfortable with as believe he done this himself but acknowledge the role I have played) from his own mental health struggles & for long periods of depression. He will acknowledge that before we met he was an angry person who didn't understand anything about himself. My DH has been through quite a bit including a previous failed marriage that didn't end great for my DH but he has his own DS from it who is very much loved & part of our life. However the main source of my DH's struggles which he has only fairly recently recognised comes from the relationship with his father.

My FIL abused him physically & emotionally all his childhood. Some of the stories are literally too heartbreaking to post (particularly given my current hormonal state) but a theme of violence, indifference, mind games & control all characterised my DH's childhood. Some of the examples I feel able to describe were at the age of 10 he was beaten by the side of a football pitch by him for not playing well enough & other parents had to intervene to pull him off my DH. My DH describes the worst thing about that being was the shame & embarrassment he felt that another parent became involved & not upset at the beating. Another one at about the age of 13 was after being at swimming in the next town one Sunday night my DH missed the last bus home & called my FIL to ask for a lift. He laughed at him & told him "to get to fuck & walk it". The walk was literally a 7 mile walk along a poorly lit duel carriageway. It took him hours to get home. He recalls doing it, getting in & no one saying anything about it. He would regularly laugh & mock my DH calling him "gay" or a "poof" often in front of people who would often join in the ridicule. He recalls no incidences of love or affection from him except when he was drunk but then the next next day it would be even worse again.

My DH witnessed similar abuse to his DM & DS. He controlled family life growing up. He kept them poor & to this day talks about all the savings he had but would never put his hand in his pocket to help anyone & his literally let terrible financial things happen to his family & not stepped in because he was ultimately ok!

My DH left home young & over the years my FIL has continued to behave in controlling & abusive ways towards him. Yes the physical abuse stopped (my DH is quite strong & could always handle himself) but the emotional abuse & control continued.

He is a particularly unpleasant man. He is a complete narcissist. Textbook narcissist who complains & moans about everyone & everything. Everything is from his agenda & he can switch from the overbearing controlling narcissist to the one who shows no interest in anyone else. His stories always start about how someone has wronged him & or has behaved badly when he in my opinion is the worst kind of person. He has very little in his life now. No hobbies or interests or friends. Which I may add is the opposite of my DH who has lots of these things. Part of the problem is I believe he is jealous of my DH & always has been. He continues to control my MIL who according to my DH has all her life tried her best to counter act his behaviour but is largely powerless. Some of the things he has done to her over the years is horrendous but at the same time I can't help feel that her fear of him has made her complicit in the abuse that my DH experienced.

My DH has dealt with it over the years by having as little to do with him as he can. They have no relationship but ultimately because he is still with my MIL he has had to see him & his behaviour is so over bearing that it still affects my DH whenever he has been around him.

It all came to a bit of a head a couple of years ago. I lost my own DF following an illness. A man who was literally the opposite of my FIL, fucking typical eh? In that time my DH was my rock & grew very close to my own family. I believe he witnessed first hand true love & support of a normal family unit. It was around this time that my DH began making realisations about his own childhood & we would talk for hours at a time about it. My DH had never previously spoken to anyone before about the abuse let alone acknowledge it was abuse. It broke my heart to know what he had been through but I was so proud of him for understanding what it was & the effect it has had on my DH's life ever since.

One night not long after my own DF passed my DH was at his parents house, I wasn't there. My FIL made some typically narcissist remark which for my DH was the straw that broke the camels back. My DH & him had a very aggressive argument & my DH walked out & never spoke to him for months. He felt empowered & relief that he had cut ties & no longer had to be around him. In that time my DH's family were desperate for them to 'make up' & move on by my DH wasn't interested. After some time my DH then decided to confide in my MIL about his realisation of the years of abuse. My MIL broke down & acknowledged initially all that happened. Took responsibility for her role & supported my DH's right to not what my FIL in his life. This reaction was unfortunately short term. Very quickly, as in within hours, my MIL went into shut down mode & wouldn't talk about it anymore to my DH & to this day never has. She acknowledges that DH & FIL don't have relationship & that FIL is a pretty miserable human being but that's it. Very quickly it went back to sweeping it under the carpet & behaving as if nothing has happened. Even though she is utterly miserable in her life with FIL his control is just too much for her to break through.

SIL acknowledged it much more although doesn't acknowledge the extent her own abuse at the hands of him as much as my DH said it happened. She still has a relationship with FIL but much of that I believe is for my MIL's sake.

My DH eventually decided to write a letter to my FIL detailing his childhood experiences & his understanding now. He very quickly got a response from FIL apologising for it all. He claimed he didn't remember most of it but if my DH said it happened he's not going to say it didn't. He excused a lot of it by saying he was treated harshly by his parents & it's just a generational thing where mine find it difficult to show affection even though he was only 2 years older than my own DF was! It was a difficult one for my DH to digest as on the one hand he got an apology but on the other hand felt it muddied the waters in terms of how my DH would approach their relationship going forward. Could he continue to have NC with a man who has apologised? Maybe he could change? FIL's response was also what I believe led my MIL to want to keep sweeping it under the carpet & move on as if it's all sorted. Since then my DH has somewhat muddled through & as much as he can maintaining NC with FIL although it's hard & there has been times whereby FIL was forced up on him or into situations my DH & I would rather he or we weren't in mainly by MIL. MIL & DH's relationship has suffered in this time & it's hard to witness. I know how much DH means to MIL but her inability to talk to my DH about it has put a massive strain on their relationship & led to a lot of hurt on DH's part that she can't support him more.

Up to present day and as I said earlier we are due our own DC very soon. From my own point of you I am really struggling to deal with what role FIL will have in their life & feel I'm beginning to obsess over this. I accept that a lot of that will be to do with my own personal grief at my own DF not being here anymore & how hard that is for me. However I am also finding it hard to understand what role he can play in my own DC's life when he has caused so much damage to everyone else & continues to to this day. He has never bonded with my SS even tho he is like the easiest SS in the world so not figuring it would be any different with my DC but at the same it causes me real anxiety. A few months ago he actually said "oh I've just realised I will be the one grandpa for the baby, I'll be quite important to him then". As if I could forget about my own DF's passing. At the time I actually didn't react but I replay his words over & over in my head & I feel like I hate him!! And I don't hate anyone so for me this is extreme.

My DH has assured me that he will never be allowed or in a position to hurt our DC but I really feel anxious about it to the point I'm waking up through the night thinking about him (& to go for a pee for about 100th time).

FIL knows I don't like him & tries to be super friendly but I find that just so irritating. It's like the huge elephant in the room that doesn't get dealt with. I also could be adding this into the mix too because I dislike him so much but I also find him creepy. He invades your personal space & on occasion when sitting near me has put his hand on my leg, has touched me round the waist a few times under the guise of "I'm just trying to squeeze through" when really he didn't need to as well as commenting once once on how short my dress was at a wedding & could I not get one to fit me. He was also strangely close to my DH's ex & would meet her for drinks after they had split up! I still find this weird as does my DH. As well as this he has recently started popping over uninvited to our home & tries to just walk in, I know make sure door is constantly locked! Given my current pregnancy state I have a lot of the time been in pjs & nighties with no bra on etc. I find it very uncomfortable especially the last two occasions when my DH hasn't been home. The last time I actually stayed up the stairs & only spoke to him from over the bannister as I thought "no why should I?" We don't have any relationship & you are coming to our house uninvited, I shouldn't need to sit & have a coffee with you when I know what done. No one in my life just drops in without proper notice even my own DM who I'm very close with. Given my current state & also once DC is born & me attempting to BF I just feel really uncomfortable with these unannounced visits & feel it's another form of control that he's trying to exert.

My DH is doing really well & mentally the strongest he has been in his whole life & i'm unbelievably proud of him. He can actually be very pragmatic in his dealings with his DF & in a way i feel it is me who is struggling more with it right now hence why I try to
hold back on bringing it up with him every 2 minutes!

Anyway apologies again for my massive essay but this has been building up for so long now & felt the need to rant.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated ❤️ xx

I suggested 'phasing him out' as a mental exercise to gear yourself up for the nuclear option
I agree that the only solution is to cut him out completely he is extremely toxic and needs to be completely and absolutely quarantined

No I could totally tell her but I prob haven't because I know her response! She will hit the roof & would be insistent that we go NC. I guess i am trying to walk that fine line between letting my DH come to terms & deal with his abuse without feeling like I'm forcing him to do it a certain way. I think he is beginning to come to terms with the fact that on his side he doesn't have a family. It has been difficult it can be for him to accept & he will have occasions where he will fall into the old way of behaving with them. Fulfilling the role he always played & believing things can be a certain way. And then he can be so pragmatic & clinical & assertive that even I'm left feeling "ooh was that a bit harsh there". The lapses from my DH are certainly happening less now than it did at first but it's still there a bit, like I know he still has some control cause ultimately he's not went NC completely.

Thank you for looking your advice ladies, I really am digesting them & taking them all in x

Show the thread to your Dh and let him read what other posters can see clearly. Even if he doesn't go NC with FIL (though he should for his sanity) you can put your foot down and refuse to ever see him again. If MIL has chosen (yes she has a choice) to enable him and stand by him then let her off too. I wouldn't let either of them have a shred of influence over my child so would be setting very clear boundaries now. How would you feel if you are breastfeeding and FIL walks in uninvited and sits across from you? What if you have had a shit night and are waking around the house in your pj's with your boobs leaking - will you want either of them parading in to your space and passing comment? Make a decision now and stick to it. You owe them nothing and neither does your Dh.

Your mum just wants to protect you from harm which is obviously a good thing but yes if her response would cause you more stress maybe think it over for a bit first

If you can at least clearly see him for what he is and understand that you don't owe him anything, once you taken all that on board then it should be much easier to deal with him in the right way

All of the incidents taken in isolation could be explained away the thing to do is to look at the whole picture see the correspondences between the things that he does see the patterns

it might be that if your husband is able to take a firm stand and completely cut contact others in the family will feel empowered to do the same thing

Thank you ladies. I think I feel empowered more to set the boundaries re their waltzing in & in particular their visits in these early days when DC is here. It's just not happening! As u say there is no way I should feel uncomfortable in my own home at such an important time & if people take that as being rude I actually don't care!

I think i have after this morning have more clarity of thought about how bad it is & what a danger he is to us all. As he's lost his control over DH he's been forced to be more manipulative & covert & that is where dangers lies. I feel this clarity will be compounded more when DC is here & I'll be just as protective of him as my own DM is of me! I think for it will then be right to tell DH everything & how I can't trust him around DC. He's not ruining this happy time for us.

Mentally phasing him out & seeing him for the pathetic man he is will help me get through this hormone induced obsession! He really is not worth it especially at a time when I should be basking in positive energy!

Thanks again ladies - it has all helped a lot xx

when there are children that he will be much more interested because children are very easy to manipulate and he can have lots of fun turning you all against each other
His goal is to crush you all so that he can feel Powerful

Good luck, it would be nice if you could update because it's always helpful to see how these things pan out, however I appreciate you have a lot on your plate and you need to think about your anonymity and your own well-being

Thank you @Wordthe & I will keep you posted on how it pans out as I genuinely appreciate the advice & support given today. Take care & have a nice day x

How does he just walk into your home ? Do you have one of those doors that have to be locked from inside just to prevent someone from walking in ?
I think the first thing I'd do if you can afford it is to have that mechanism changed.

Echoing @tea...How does he do this thing in your house?

I think when you are in the midst of a family like this & all the different roles that are at play it can be hard to have that clarity of really how bad it is. Especially when it's only my DH & me that are exposing it for what it is.

This is so true. You will start to doubt your own sanity, but everyone is giving good advice because they're able to see it from the outside.

Your FIL is creepy and you do not want your DC to be involved with a man like that. No Granddad is better than a creepy manipulative Granddad. This whole blood is thicker than water thing is bullshit. If he was a random/neighbour who behaved like that you wouldn't tolerate it at all.

The touching thing is a game he is playing, its deliberate & lechy & deliberated showing you he is a predator. He knows that you are going to be initially, surprised, shocked, but too well mannered to make a remark.
I would tell your DH, that he has been touchy feely, & that you were too embarrasses & polite to tell DH. from now on you will shout, get your filthy hands off me, & DH can take it from there.
Do not let him in, if he knocks, say DH isn't home, sorry your busy & shut the door. change the locks if he has a key

Never wait until after baby comes to do anything hard.

You will be physically damaged, sleep deprived, overwhelmed, way more hormonal than now, confused constantly. Relationships are hard in the first few weeks and months. As an abused child, DH is going to have a lot of emotions in the first few weeks. Even your focus moving away from him onto the baby will be hard, especially as his own mother neglected him by permitting the abuse. Don't plan to lay more on him then. It will be worse for you all.

Right now you have loads of headspace for DH, FIL and MIL. You would be amazed how little you will have later.

Get it all out in the open asap. It will be MUCH easier for everyone to deal with it now.

get your filthy hands off me
or, a new take on a mumsnet classic
'did you mean to look like a dirty old man/creep/pervert/weirdo'

but don't put yourself under pressure to call him out in a dramatic way if you unable to, if you can at least be firm and deliberate with him, practice standing up to him, not backing down.

The problem with abusive people is that they get away with really shocking things and this can push us into feeling angry and taking rash and extreme measures which may later backfire on us.

He will always try to lead people into compromising situations where they can be co-oerced into acting against their own interests

I genuinely appreciate the advice & support given today
these discussions also help others to wake up and see the true picture so it's all good :)

FIL knows I don't like him & tries to be super friendly
he knows that you don't like him, he enjoys your discomfort as he imposes himself upon you

Hi folks,

FIL has walked into our house when door has been left unlocked. My DH is not the most security conscious of ppl although I'm on it now! The passed couple of times he has had to knock, we still let him in tho out of that fear of looking rude. Such an irrational fear tho when u compare it to the things they do & are never held to account for.

Had a good chat to my DM the day & read her this thread which she feels is on point & supportive which i am truly grateful for! The thing about outsiders seeing it more clearly is so true too. That clarity is what is real tho not altho mixed emotions that are at play within a family.

Will decide over coming days about telling DH about the creepy inappropriate behaviour. Guess I just don't want him ruining this special time but do except that once baby is here it may well be harder to take.

Thanks again everyone x

Please stop letting him in out of some supposed fear on your parts of being rude!. You are dealing with a man who is unreasonable and abusive. This is who he is and he will not ever change.

Abuse like you describe from FIL thrives on secrecy and is rooted in power and control. Do not keep this a secret from your H. Get this all out in the open now and most certainly before baby arrives.

Neither FIL or for that matter his wife should have any direct contact with your as yet unborn child.

out of that fear of looking rude
with 'normal' people if you make a concession by being polite they will respond in kind and treat you with politeness
a boundary pusher will see any concession as a green light to carry on and conquer, any signs of weakness trigger him into attack mode
(yes that's a bit of a dramatic way of putting it but I think my point stands)

I realise this about the boundaries & know they need to be stronger with regards to him. And totally agree that he will see common courtesy as a sign of weakness that he can push & use to control & coerce.

It's when you actually say it all out loud that you realise how bad it is & I haven't even scratched the surface in terms of what he has done to his family over the years.

You don't have to let him in, you know? You can do the honest thing and say 'We're not up for/don't want visitors' or pretend you're going out but I would simply say 'Please phone if you want to come round and we'll let you know if it's convenient'. When you're mid cluster feeding/settling in with the baby, the last thing you need is someone dropping in when they feel like it, so establish that boundary right now. The more boundaries you establish now, the easier it becomes.

It sounds as if you live very close to him which obviously makes it harder to go no contact, really from your description I'm surprised that anyone is prepared to have anything to do with him, I guess because his wife sticks by him everyone else feels they have to as well

Not that close but not too far away, could drive there within 30 mins! I think tbh that's the only reason they do still have contact, he's tolerated by both my DH & SIL for MIL's sake. I can see my DH going NC eventually.

I'm definitely feeling much better tonight & less 'obsessed' by it all. I think because I know what I need to re the firm boundaries I'm taking control back & feel much less anxious about the whole thing. Also understanding too that's not just about my DH's needs but mine & my unborn DC especially right now & i will prioritise them!

Thanks for the empowerment ladies! 💪👍❤️ x

You're very welcome, discussing these things helps us all!
it's great that you feel calmer and if you need to talk things over there are always people on here who will help
Wishing you strength 🤗

A chain lock on the door might be handy if he does call after baby arrives and you're home alone. This way you have the chain on and only have to open the door a small bit and he can't push it in expecting to be entertained. You can say Dh isn't in and you're busy with baby, or going for a nap with baby (i.e. Piss off and leave me alone!)

But this situation where you have one abusive parent and one passive parent, as a kid you tend to think that Mr angry was the bad person and Mrs nice was the good person
Decades down the line when you look back it doesn't look quite that simple you wonder how Mrs nice was able to stand by while her children were treated so badly
I think these things are far from black and white