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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Ending engagement

93 replies

SoonTwoBeOne · 05/01/2019 22:01

I’m due to be married in 3 weeks. We are in the midst of a huge row (we never normally row) and I’m questioning whether to end it. I’m a bit terrified of asking on here as the normal response is LTB and that is easier said than done.
Long but don’t want to drip feed.

He has been moody for a few weeks; nothing major but just not his normal kind, thoughtful self. I think we’ve both felt stressed. Over Christmas I found myself irritated with him but we are talking petty stuff.

He angrily told my 16 yr old to Fuck off last night, without warning and after a silly sulky teen comment. We do not swear in front of her, I don’t think flying off the handle is an appropriate adult response. So I said there’s no need for that. She held back tears. I took dogs out and she came with me. Normally I’d go with him and she’d stay home so I imagine he felt slighted. My view on that is that she needed me to talk to her as she was upset ...more than he did. I have to choose one and it was the child. He then ignored us all evening.

I was in an abusive marriage and my ex used to have a quick temper and I was usually trying to prevent him going for my DC by constantly appeasing. Eldest DC (now an adult) is quite anxious as a consequence and I blame myself for not leaving sooner. This is obviously influencing my reaction to last night. He knows this.

I went to bed early and didn’t say goodnight. Again not normal behaviour and he’s taken a real insult from this and apparently is the cause of his behaviour today. So he gets up and leaves quietly at 8ish and goes to work. He has a casual part-time job, chooses his own hours and never works on a Saturday. I was dozing as I’d been awake in the night (a lot). During the day I texted him to ask if he would be coming to a planned evening with friends tonight. He said no...accompanied by several childish petty comments. I said I’d cancel (can hardly go on my own without explaining his absence or lying) we need to talk, when are you free. Ignores me. He stays out until 5ish and as soon as he comes in collects the dog, ignores me and goes out to walk him. I intercept at front door and say the adult way to deal is to talk. He says he’s been at work! I say don’t play games as we both know he doesn’t normally work or come in and go straight out. When he comes back much later I suggest we go out to talk (for privacy from DD) and said we need to behave like adults. He says he will but only if I’m ready to talk sensibly. I said I was ready to talk sensibly earlier and he said it was better if he didn’t because he wasn’t ready. All of this is said angrily. He then makes no move to go and talk. I’ve asked him to three or four times at this point and am not going to ask again. He goes to bed at 8:30.

Eventually I go in as light is on and ask him how long this will continue for. He is so so angry and said it’s up to me. He says he reserves the right to tell DD to fuck off as she is only 16 and is a liar. She’s not. It was a silly teenage exaggeration of what he said. I.e he said you’ll get fat if you eat that and she said he implied I was fat Being fat is a big issue and worry for her.

The prelude to the argument is petty. It’s the result and reaction that is frightening me. I’m determined to not be appeasing apologetic abused wife again so I’m standing my ground about him shouting at DD with no justifiable reason. I am however trying to instigate conversation. He’s not budging. Impasse.

It’s left with him telling me if I want to press the nuclear button (no wedding) I’d better think carefully as there will be no coming back. Tbh that’s fine by me because if I say that... I agree there is no coming back.

The background picture here is money. I work full time in a very good job and own the house we live in. He pays half of the bills but it took several months for him to start doing that. He does pay for other stuff and isn’t a penny pincher but nonetheless he’s getting £1200 rent from his place of which I see nothing. However I don’t want to share the mortgage or ownership of this property as it is my security. So I don’t really want contributions to the mortgage. If we split he has nowhere to go until tenants are moved on. He will also lose that money which he relies on.

The wedding has been paid for on credit card in my name purely because only one person could be on the application. The idea that I carry all the debt sits uncomfortably with me. I’m very good with money. He is less so but is also very comfortable with a good pension £1200 a month, rent income and also part-time earnings. I suspect he earns as much as me but doesn’t have a mortgage of £1000 a month to pay. He has a mortgage on his house but is only paying interest. In 6-7 yrs he has to rely on selling to pay it off or inheritance (it’s very likely he’ll do both easily but again this bothers me as I forward plan really carefully). He does voluntarily pay for a lot of things like social tickets, treats, meals etc.

We have been really happy, we like the same hobbies however he hasn’t engaged as much lately seeming to be tired. I really don’t know whether I should go through with the wedding. Pre-wedding jitters or red flags?

OP posts:
SoonTwoBeOne · 06/01/2019 19:17

Agent Johnson has it spot on...except we have now talked.

Loads I could write and lots of individual posts I could answer but I’m a bit exhausted by all the talking with him. On MN you feel like you’re constantly explaining details to create a better understanding of the actual circumstances. Some people obviously get it and I’d say on the whole amongst all posts there is an element of truth describing the situation but there is also some complete misunderstanding or mis reading of detail. I’m too tired to defend or answer those.

I have found it really useful to mull over particularly where people have taken time to post explanations rather than just simplistic LTB type comments. So thank you for this.

Where we are: wedding on immediate hold. Not a definite no but not a definite yes. I have a better understanding of his POV and him of mine. I’ve also been really clear on the this is a deal breaker re DD.

I then took DD for another long dog walk and we chatted. I have a really good relationship with her and can have honest discussions appropriate to her life experience. I said I was considering whether I want to be married and just let her talk without any pressure on her response. She wants him to stay in her life and would be really upset to lose him. She wasn’t massively bothered by the swearing as she hears this all day at school...however the current moody behaviour is not acceptable to her (ironic considering she’s often the same). So there we are. Unresolved but not ending it today. We will need to talk again but I think a bit of time to reflect will be good for both of us.

OP posts:
SoonTwoBeOne · 06/01/2019 19:19

Oh and I have also said I’m not paying another penny to the wedding. If we cancel or not the bill will be settled by him.

OP posts:
MsPavlichenko · 06/01/2019 19:32

What do you mean on " immediate hold" ? It is in three weeks. Are you telling folk it is off to give them notice? If not the presdure on you to go ahead will be huge imo, and you'll be very unlikely to do so with days to go.

I hear what you say about your DD wanting him around. She may well do, but that doesn't mean that it is the best or right thing for her. Sometimes we have to decide that even for sixteen year olds. Even in cases of extreme abuse or neglect children often want to maintain contact. It doesn't always follow they should.

PotteryLady · 06/01/2019 19:35

Don't marry him! Just no!

lovemenot · 06/01/2019 19:36

I was married to someone who “reserved the right” on a regular basis. So no compromise, no equal playing field, no open discussion.....and eventually no marriage.

Follow though on that comment with him before you make your final decision.

AnyFucker · 06/01/2019 19:38

At this late hour, you will actually have to cancel surely ? Not sure what "on hold" means in reality.

JennyHolzersGhost · 06/01/2019 19:42

So it’s cancelled then ?

UnexpectedItemInShaggingArea · 06/01/2019 19:58

You said he'd been moody for a few weeks, what's that about?

I know you know this, but you're teaching your 16 year old what's acceptable in a relationship. It's a little sad that she's blasé about being told to fuck off by a father figure. Family is different from school friends and there should be higher standards set.

LatentPhase · 06/01/2019 20:17

You’ve elaborated on what dd thinks. What did you learn about DP/his POV?

Is he stressed about something? dd? Wedding? You? Did he explain his recent mood? Has he apologised re telling dd to f* off?

Ruddygreattiger2016 · 06/01/2019 20:27

Glad you have refused to pay anymore to the wedding, I assume he will be paying you half of what you have shelled out already?

Did he apologise to your dd for swearing at her?
Did he apologise to you both for the subsequent silent treatment?
How does he plan on not 'being moody' when he has been like it for weeks?
Does he still defend his right to verbally abuse your daughter?

Like pp I find it heartbreaking that she wants to keep someone like this in her life to keep her mum happy. As a mum, if someone treated my daughter, my very own flesh and blood, like that they would instantly be gone.

AnyFucker · 06/01/2019 20:44

I assume that this close to the date all payments will be required in full, consummated betrothal or not

So unless Mr Verbal Abuser of Teenage Girls puts his hands in his pocket immediately, op is going to find herself paying for it all anyway

Gina2012 · 06/01/2019 21:15

I agree. Don't marry him

Be very circumspect and savvy - there's something very 'not right' here

Kennycalmit · 06/01/2019 21:36

I’m not going to comment on whether you should leave or not as I don’t feel as if I know enough to give my opinion

However what struck me is the fact you don’t want him to have any claim over your house so you don’t accept any money from him towards the mortgage. If you do get married and then split he will be entitled to a share of the house should it sell.

MsPavlichenko · 06/01/2019 22:15

Again. Your DD " adoring " him means nothing. It doesn't mean he is not being abusive to her. And its not ironic that she doesn't see his sulky behaviour as being eqivalent to her own. It isn't. He is the grown up, and fully understands what he is saying/ doing. At sixteen ( and I "m no apologist for badly behaved teens) she doesn"t yet.

I'm also struck by you feeling/ suggesting defensive about your responses. Why is that?

hamstersaremyfriends · 06/01/2019 22:39

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

hamstersaremyfriends · 06/01/2019 22:40

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

AndTheBandPlayedOn · 07/01/2019 14:13

Skip the divorce, don’t marry him in the first place. It doesn’t look like this will go the distance, imho.

The declaration that your estate will go to your dc may be seen as a challenge to him. Game on. He is relying on an inheritance coming through (he can deal with time going by); he can rely on a divorce settlement as well.

He has maneuvered barricades to attempt to block you from escaping the trap. He has invested seven years into “good times”, has developed an emotional connection with your dd all the while...dot dot dot... now the wedding draws near.

Now he shows you who he really is, as Attila said. It is almost like a playground double dog dare you to cancel the wedding.
He was the one to mention canceling first, wasn’t he? The term “nuclear button” over dramatizes the choice to attach more shame to that rational decision. Can you see this is very calculating?

He is laying his cards on the table. You had better look at them and use your thinking brain.

And thank what ever higher being you believe in that he told your dd to Fuck Off. That is a piece of delicious projection because you should be telling
him to fuck off.

AndTheBandPlayedOn · 07/01/2019 14:15

That smiley face was an end parentheses.
I did not put the smiley face- there’s nothing smiley about these circumstances.

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