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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Ending engagement

93 replies

SoonTwoBeOne · 05/01/2019 22:01

I’m due to be married in 3 weeks. We are in the midst of a huge row (we never normally row) and I’m questioning whether to end it. I’m a bit terrified of asking on here as the normal response is LTB and that is easier said than done.
Long but don’t want to drip feed.

He has been moody for a few weeks; nothing major but just not his normal kind, thoughtful self. I think we’ve both felt stressed. Over Christmas I found myself irritated with him but we are talking petty stuff.

He angrily told my 16 yr old to Fuck off last night, without warning and after a silly sulky teen comment. We do not swear in front of her, I don’t think flying off the handle is an appropriate adult response. So I said there’s no need for that. She held back tears. I took dogs out and she came with me. Normally I’d go with him and she’d stay home so I imagine he felt slighted. My view on that is that she needed me to talk to her as she was upset ...more than he did. I have to choose one and it was the child. He then ignored us all evening.

I was in an abusive marriage and my ex used to have a quick temper and I was usually trying to prevent him going for my DC by constantly appeasing. Eldest DC (now an adult) is quite anxious as a consequence and I blame myself for not leaving sooner. This is obviously influencing my reaction to last night. He knows this.

I went to bed early and didn’t say goodnight. Again not normal behaviour and he’s taken a real insult from this and apparently is the cause of his behaviour today. So he gets up and leaves quietly at 8ish and goes to work. He has a casual part-time job, chooses his own hours and never works on a Saturday. I was dozing as I’d been awake in the night (a lot). During the day I texted him to ask if he would be coming to a planned evening with friends tonight. He said no...accompanied by several childish petty comments. I said I’d cancel (can hardly go on my own without explaining his absence or lying) we need to talk, when are you free. Ignores me. He stays out until 5ish and as soon as he comes in collects the dog, ignores me and goes out to walk him. I intercept at front door and say the adult way to deal is to talk. He says he’s been at work! I say don’t play games as we both know he doesn’t normally work or come in and go straight out. When he comes back much later I suggest we go out to talk (for privacy from DD) and said we need to behave like adults. He says he will but only if I’m ready to talk sensibly. I said I was ready to talk sensibly earlier and he said it was better if he didn’t because he wasn’t ready. All of this is said angrily. He then makes no move to go and talk. I’ve asked him to three or four times at this point and am not going to ask again. He goes to bed at 8:30.

Eventually I go in as light is on and ask him how long this will continue for. He is so so angry and said it’s up to me. He says he reserves the right to tell DD to fuck off as she is only 16 and is a liar. She’s not. It was a silly teenage exaggeration of what he said. I.e he said you’ll get fat if you eat that and she said he implied I was fat Being fat is a big issue and worry for her.

The prelude to the argument is petty. It’s the result and reaction that is frightening me. I’m determined to not be appeasing apologetic abused wife again so I’m standing my ground about him shouting at DD with no justifiable reason. I am however trying to instigate conversation. He’s not budging. Impasse.

It’s left with him telling me if I want to press the nuclear button (no wedding) I’d better think carefully as there will be no coming back. Tbh that’s fine by me because if I say that... I agree there is no coming back.

The background picture here is money. I work full time in a very good job and own the house we live in. He pays half of the bills but it took several months for him to start doing that. He does pay for other stuff and isn’t a penny pincher but nonetheless he’s getting £1200 rent from his place of which I see nothing. However I don’t want to share the mortgage or ownership of this property as it is my security. So I don’t really want contributions to the mortgage. If we split he has nowhere to go until tenants are moved on. He will also lose that money which he relies on.

The wedding has been paid for on credit card in my name purely because only one person could be on the application. The idea that I carry all the debt sits uncomfortably with me. I’m very good with money. He is less so but is also very comfortable with a good pension £1200 a month, rent income and also part-time earnings. I suspect he earns as much as me but doesn’t have a mortgage of £1000 a month to pay. He has a mortgage on his house but is only paying interest. In 6-7 yrs he has to rely on selling to pay it off or inheritance (it’s very likely he’ll do both easily but again this bothers me as I forward plan really carefully). He does voluntarily pay for a lot of things like social tickets, treats, meals etc.

We have been really happy, we like the same hobbies however he hasn’t engaged as much lately seeming to be tired. I really don’t know whether I should go through with the wedding. Pre-wedding jitters or red flags?

OP posts:
Disc0untD1va · 06/01/2019 00:49

Why is he only working part time ? Does he have a pension ? Does he declare and pay tax on the income from his property. Why have you solely paid for all the wedding ? Is this a case of 7 year itch / pre wedding nerves ?

JennyHolzersGhost · 06/01/2019 00:58

You’ve been together seven years and you’re getting married and you don’t even know how much he earns ?

No. Just no.

How does marriage benefit you exactly ? From what I can see it’s all potential downside for you.

Don’t do it.

sofato5miles · 06/01/2019 01:10

When you marry, you financial pots are pooled, your house is no longer protected. Except you don't know what he has...

My school friend recently divorced. Her DH had always kept his files, with the details of his bank accounts and properties hidden and locked in the boot of his car. (I know!). They agreed that she kept the house as it was paid for before she married him, as her father had died young. As she says, she guesses that he has more assets than her otherwise he would have gone for the house. But what if he hadn't? She worked full time, him part time and in the 15 year marriage she never knew him. Both utterly normal, MC uni educated couple who normalised a very weird situation.

The gaslighting, mind games and sulking almost broke her and she says she just feels stupid for not insisting on transparency early on. She just felt it would have been rude..Hmm

Ruddygreattiger2016 · 06/01/2019 01:16

He 'reserves the right to tell your daughter to fuck off' ???? Wtaf? He feels fully entitled to verbally abuse your daughter IN FRONT OF YOU and you are still letting him live in the same house? Wow, amazed you are torn over what to do.
I feel so sorry for your dd forced to live with this utter twat for your sake, I am sure as soon as you marry he will dish out the insults until she has no alternative but to leave, because as soon as she is old enough she will be gone - thanks to him.
And as for the financial side he is taking you for an absolute mug.

LaurenOrdering · 06/01/2019 01:22

Walk & keep on walking.
Sometimes as natural or birth or step parents we can sometimes lose the plot with kids.
However decent parents apologise & sort it out. Your DP hasn't & is behaving like a child, worse than a child.
E.g. as a teenager going through a horrid phase I used to give my DF & DSM merry hell. One argument my DF told me to F off & my my DSM told me I was a little bitch.
Both of them the next day apologised for swearing at me & calling me names. This was the only time they lost the plot & to be fair I'd been pushing them for ages to get a reaction. They were mortified for ages that they'd sworn at me.

MrsCatE · 06/01/2019 05:56

You know the score. The final nail in the coffin is commenting in such a negative and possibly damaging way on what your was eating - knowing she has concerns about weight. I think that's an equal or perhaps, bigger concern rather than the 'F off'.

FogCutter · 06/01/2019 06:12

Rude to your DD
Sulking and unwilling to communicate
Lack of Financial transparency

I would absolutely not marry this man and make sure your DD knows it's not (just) because he was rude to her. Don't want to risk her feeling in any way responsible- your DP is responsible as it's his actions that have caused this.

SoonTwoBeOne · 06/01/2019 08:47

Well I’ve read all and can’t disagree with any of it. The black and white starkness of it makes me realise what I have to do. The other side of it: the years of joy we have had, are very different to manage. I also know my DD will be heartbroken. Far from glad about it I know she will be devastated as she really adores him and he has always been so kind and thoughtful to her until this. So that isn’t as straightforward as it sounds.

OP posts:
SoonTwoBeOne · 06/01/2019 08:55

The finances: we are both very solvent and previously married. Marriage as everyone knows affects your purse badly. Neither of us wish to pool money. I helped with his tax return this weekend so I do know his income, I just didn’t calculate it all up as he has several sources. It felt about the same as mine or possibly more. His pension is taxed so after tax he might get less. His house is worth more than mine with a small mortgage. He is also going to inherit from very rich mum in very poor health so I don’t feel he is a financial liability although I don’t approve of the reliance on inheritance. His back up plan is always sell the expensive property, pay off mortgage and buy something more suited to his needs.

So yes financially it all sounds odd but actually when you’ve reached our age with financial arrangements that work for you, changing your plan/approach to be the same as someone else’s or excluding them from your life because of finances when everything else seems good isn’t a worry.

The main issue now is the debt on a credit card in my name. We are both paying it off not just me. He has also paid for lots of things on his own card. However if we split I will obviously be chasing for that debt to be paid.

OP posts:
Angrybird345 · 06/01/2019 08:58

I doubt your dd will be that heartbroken .... deep down you both know he’s not fit for marrying. Ask him for half of the wedding costs before you kick him out.

LatentPhase · 06/01/2019 09:04

Is he still sulking this morning? How is your dd?

SoonTwoBeOne · 06/01/2019 09:12

They are both still asleep. She has a friend staying over and was merrily laughing and giggling last night until I texted asking her to keep the noise down.

He was tossing and turning and up in the night so I imagine is catching up with sleep. What will he be like when he wakes? Who knows! This is all unknown territory for me.

OP posts:
AttilaTheMeerkat · 06/01/2019 09:13

He has now shown his true colours.

I also doubt your DD will be at that heartbroken or devastated to be honest with you; somewhat sad for you perhaps but not for her own self. He is truly a crap example of a stepfather to her. You and she both know that he is not fit for marrying.

I would also not let any thoughts of the sunken costs fallacy here get in the way; all this talk of the years of joy for instance.

Windgate · 06/01/2019 09:14

He's been telling you who he is for the last seven years, you haven't been listening.
I wonder if he engineered the argument and aftermath so you would cancel the wedding and he could blame you.

JennyHolzersGhost · 06/01/2019 09:25

Well look OP that’s all fine financially but it doesn’t explain why you’d want to get married. If the finances are ok being separate then why do something which by definition joins them ?

Whether I stayed with this man or not, I certainly wouldn’t marry him.

SoonTwoBeOne · 06/01/2019 09:39

I have considered whether we stay together and just not marry. But if I’m not happy to marry him I can’t see how that steps down to “but I’ll live with you” without significant connotations

I was ambivalent about marriage for all the reasons mentioned here. It makes things complicated and doesn’t change anything ....except when we did discuss it,it did feel different. It felt like we were both really committing to a future. We talked about the future for the children and how it would work when one of us died. We both want our children to inherit our estate and not each other and we have taken legal advice about that. Living costs are shared. Income is not. But I really am happy with that. I wouldn’t want to change that. Independent finances work well for us.

OP posts:
SoonTwoBeOne · 06/01/2019 09:46

So there’s several issues

  1. finances not pooled - this bothers MN far more than me it appears
  2. cancelling the wedding - this bothers me far more than MN as its me that will face the whole telling everyone, grieving for a lost relationship, paying for it and getting him to pay half (although only the deposit is on my card actually so it would be shared as I’d not settle without him covering it now) It is the loss of a future we had planned together travelling and enjoying life.
  3. my DD - this is the clincher for me more than anything else. If he thinks this behaviour is tolerable...he’s out. It is complicated by the fact that I’m absolutely sure she will be devastated. This one incident is the only time he has been unpleasant to her. He’s always been tolerant, indulgent, kind, thoughtful and she really adores him.

So we need an honest conversation as adults to get to the bottom of all of this. If today he cannot have that then I will be going forwards as a single woman which is ok as I am confident of myself in that scenario, financially independent etc. (Hence I’ve always maintained that!)

OP posts:
LatentPhase · 06/01/2019 10:02

Good for you OP. I think you’ve got your head screwed on.

The rest is a question of how he now reacts. You can’t control that. It is no doubt petrifying after 7 happy years.

Flowers for you - good luck Flowers

JennyHolzersGhost · 06/01/2019 10:07

I think we’re probably focusing on the finances because you are already aware of how big a problem his behaviour towards your daughter and his behaviour about the wedding has been. We’re in agreement on that so I guess we haven’t discussed it as much as the money situation which is more of an underlying ‘errrrm are you sure about this?’ kind of thing. But that’s not to say that anyone disagrees with you about your points 2&3, it sounds like you’re absolutely doing the right thing by taking this very seriously.

SonataDentata · 06/01/2019 10:17

My mum nearly married a guy like this. He was absolutely horrible to me in particular and also to my siblings. It still makes me feel a bit sick thinking about it. Please don’t marry him.

Luckingfovely · 06/01/2019 10:24

I think your last post is very sensible and I wish you lots of strength to get through this.

Thinking it's okay to tell your daughter to fuck off is an absolute and instant deal breaker. But yes, you have to handle this in balance of all your current commitments and the last seven years.

I think you will be great whatever happens.

PolytheneSam · 06/01/2019 10:34

He made a threat about the wedding, that it's your decision whether to go ahead or not.

In effect he has checked out because this implies he will be passively accepting your yay or nay.

Aside from anything else, can you really go through the wedding with this attitude of his? Can you imagine saying yes while reviewing everything you shared in this thread?

Ruddygreattiger2016 · 06/01/2019 10:35

'He pays half of the bills but it took several months for him to start doing that. He does pay for other stuff and isn’t a penny pincher but nonetheless he’s getting £1200 rent from his place of which I see nothing'

That's what you wrote initially. Hardly generous to you and it is bloody obvious to everyone here that he is onto a good thing being with you, yet here you are explaining that, in fact, he is a good egg. Whatever.

'I was in an abusive marriage and I was usually trying to prevent him going from my dc by constantly appeasing. Eldest dc is quite anxious as a consequence and I blame myself for not leaving sooner.'

Sound familiar??? Only this time its a different bloke and your youngest dc.

Sorry op, but you sound desperate to keep him around at whatever cost, you say it isn't simple, but when it comes to a man declaring 'he has the right to tell your dd to fuck off' then it's very fucking simple. You are going to appease this piece of shit bloke and the cycle will be repeated.

If your dd is 'heartbroken' that a man that verbally abuses her leaves, then she is learning some pretty fucked up life lessons.

He is a twat, she is at risk of further verbal abuse and you think a little chat will solve everything? Jesus christ, you are deluded and have learnt nothing.

Your poor dd.

swingofthings · 06/01/2019 10:44

MN can't tell you what to do. You've been with this man 7 years and was prepared to marry him until this event which as you describe it doesn't make much sense. You say he said something insensitive but that wasnt meant to be unkind. Your DD says something to him and that causes him to tell her to F* Off, which is not a normal response for him. Are you sure your DD didn't make a drama of what was said and really pushed his buttons? Not that it justified his words but could explain why he wasn't impressed with you going out to walk to dog with her, making it clear you were taking her side if it is se thing you would normally do with him. Then you accuse him of being childish for not talking about it but you're the one who decided to go to bed without saying good night which could also be labelled childish. From what you've written, it sounds like the three of you a Ted poorly but all the blame is put on him hence why he is probably still angry.

It's a pity this had to happen three weeks before the wedding but only you can decide whether it was a one off triggered by stress, which getting ready for a wedding is known to be, or whether this highlighted other issues you have been burying.

One odd thing from what you've written too is your seemingly lack of transparency when it comes to finances. You do know surely that once you are married, thee house won't be yours only any longer. A short marriage might protect you but it won't be a given any longer. The starting point will be that everything you both owned will be divided 50/50, that includes his property.

SandyY2K · 06/01/2019 10:51

Why would you allow history to repeat itself? He's telling you he can tell her to fuck off if he likes. So he'll do it again...and more.

He's not apologising to either of you.

He's a liability and marrying him makes your house half his. Unless you've sorted that out.

I'd call off the wedding and tell him to move out.
Your DD has doesn't deserve this.