Will a narcissistic man ever change for a female he truly desires?

[Loka123]

I'm sure this question has been done to death on here and all over the internet tbh but just wanted to ask those who have been married or in relationships with a narc male in the past... did you find out he changed at some point once you had broken up and eventually found someone who he, for once, loved more than he loved himself?

I'm referring to textbooks narcs - those who lie, have been unfaithful before, controlling, hypocritical, very very charming to begin with, can become very moody very quickly, devalue and are only happen with the chase, not the catch, not committing to any place, job or person for any longer than a year, getting easily excited by newness (whether it be a job, person or place) but getting as bored and irritated by it just as quickly, blocking all his exes yet reappearing in their lives repeatedly even after insanely long periods of no contact have passed, etc.

Thanks

they've apparently suffered from abuse as a child, not gotten enough attention, etc. - can those truly be the only reasons?

No - NPD is an extremely complex disorder and the causes are not fully understood. It is certainly not as simple as "they just didn't get enough love in their childhood". I'm surprised that any site told you that - it doesn't sound like a reputable one.

OP, I am concerned that this thread is a stealth attempt from you to continue to untangle your ex - not for your own healing but for theirs. It feels like you are falling into the classic trap of "if I can just understand him, then I can fix him". On some level, almost everyone involved in an abusive situation believes if they could just explain to their abuser why their behaviour is unacceptable - and really get them to hear it - then they would stop.

You can't fix him. And you can't do his understanding for him. And you can't make him stop. You can only get far away from him and look out in case another crosses your path.

This thread has come at a very good time for me!

My ex has I think narcissist tendencies and we were together 18 years. For many of those he was very successful at something ( think fans etc) and had a life where everyone pandered to him. I think, to an extent, this kept some of his tendencies more at bay at home - or rather it seemed more reasonable for me to shape my life around him because he was so good at something and everyone else was. I really couldn’t see how he was chipping away at me ( also possibly because of my upbringing). When we went to a very few marriage counselling sessions ( he stopped them no surprise!) the counsellor actually warned me about him in a private session! She also said that some children who suffer loss at a young age can become stuck emotionally at that age.

Anyway within a year of him retiring he had an affair and left ( and his main reason was that I didn’t ‘adore him’). A year on ( living with the other woman) he has suddenly started being extremely nice to me again - thoughtful presents, texts apologising and saying how amazing I am, offering to do lots of stuff to help etc etc. I’ve just realised reading this that it is as if he has gone back into that original full on charm phase with me!

Has anyone else experienced this with an ex? I find it really difficult to deal with as I have to have contact due to two DC. And also because I’ve never truly got over believing some of the things he said about me - ie that in some way I wasn’t good enough.

Wow. My dad is a textbook Narcissist and my DH and DS2 both have ASD. I don't see many similarities at all. DH isn't good at guessing what I'm feeling or having proper conversations with me but not because he doesn't care. he just doesn't see the need. If I point it out, his efforts to listen and make conversation are adorable. Bit rough round the edges but whole hearted.

In my experience of many years of living with both, people with ASD don't mean to be cruel and get distressed if they discover they have upset people. Narcissists get angry that anyone dares question their perfection image of themselves and immediately blame the person challenging them. Not that you'd dare, most of the time.

SD1978
I don't think it matters if someone has an 'official' diagnosis of narcissism or not.

In my view, a narcissist is a narcissist if they possess the tendencies/traits. And ok don't think these tendencies can be squashed.

*I don't think

I don't agree with NPD and ASD being similar. If someone is consciously being manipulative and deceitful and takes pleasure in the distress they cause others, it's clearly not ASD.

In the early days with my ex I wondered if his lack of empathy and inability to talk about anything but himself and his views was ASD related. I was probably an enabler for a time based on my strong concerns for his wants and his welfare. Eventually I came to terms with the fact he was just a horrible person.

To answer the OP: no, they can't change. I'm wondering what's going on with mine in his current relationship. From what I've seen, it's much the same but I think she's yet to wake up to it.

no definitely not

No

He'll SAY he loves every single woman enough to change. And he'll change for none of them.

You cannot change anyone except yourself. You are powerless to change him, but hugely powerful in changing your own life.

And you get to choose.

And don't even get me started on the correlation with ASD - that is totally not true.

Kevin Dutton has clear reasons to try to make an untrue connection. I work with people who have ASD. Don't let anyone try to say they don't have empathy. If anything, they have too much. They certainly have consciences, and if you point out that a certain behaviour hurts you, emotionally or physically, they will adapt for that - if they can. And if they cannot - then how can you judge them as having or lacking empathy? I work at the severest end of the spectrum and see no sociopathy in the clients I work with. I don't work with Kevin Dutton, so my assumptions are made on what I've seen on TV, and extrapolation

@OneStepMoreFun Thanks for your personal insight.. perhaps cocaine use can be linked to NPD both in cause and effect i.e. having NPD like tendencies can cause a person to be more inclined to choose to try cocaine, whilst cocaine may also worsen symptoms of NPD in those who have such tendencies.. kinda similar to how having high levels of bad bacteria in your gut will make you crave sugar and yet the sugar will also worsen the issue of bacterial overgrowth.

Thank you all for your very helpful replies.
@Greydiddi Yes absolutely. It is a characteristic trait of narcissists to return to their victim after the devalue and discard.. there's even a word for it: "hoover" - look it up along with the word narcissism and you will find so many real life tales of people experiencing the same thing you did. Even personally, it has happened to me - I left a NPD guy about a year into the relationship (he was very devalue-y but kept holding onto me but eventually I had enough of his inconsiderate, hypocritical, controlling behaviours that I ended it - he got very "upset" (i.e. ego bruised about it), blocked me on all social media etc and said he didn't want to be friends with me, called me a cheat, etc. and then about 2 months later, he'd text randomly e.g. just "..." and then he unblocked me on whatsapp and tried saying hello, how are you etc., then unblocked me on fb (around the same time he tried to hack into my fb), would consistently send me memes he thinks I'd find funny, compliment my pics, tell me how much he misses me, gets possessive and controlling about any slightly revealing pics I had on social media, kept saving pics of ME that I had put up and would send it back to me, kept bugging me to find out if I was seeing anyone - This all went on for 7 MONTHS on a weekly basis - I ignored all of it and then he sent me a pic of him looking hurt and I guess he caught me in the right moment and annoyingly we starting chatting again - I would never take him back but he always tries to recall past memories, very charming, compliments me, tells me how "special I am" etc. i.e. "love bombs" me all over again (The HOOVER) but I'm immune to it as 100% of women who talk about forgiving their NPD man during his hoover have said he had become much much worse after getting comfortable thinking the woman has forgiven them and is back as their possession.

Main reason they do it is for the drama, ego boost, the chase, needing supply in the form of attention, sex, (possibly money in some cases) or for triangulation with their current woman as they're at their happiest when they've got multiple women fighting over them.

They can't change. But they can pretend to.

They don’t change their spots.

I lived with a weapons grade narcissist. He had been married twice before, and has been married and divorced again since we split. He follows the “Idealise Devalue Discard” pattern perfectly. The women in his life are charmed, slotted in to his perfect country home, and then when real life starts to kick in, are subjected to shocking devaluation and discarding. The woman he married after me was lovely, and worshipped him. She was also very rich and made in his opinion, the ideal mother for his children. So out pop the kids but then he didn’t like that he wasn’t the focus of her attention so started shagging a neighbour. He was very candid about it. When the neighbour’s husband found out, the affair ended and that’s when he threw out the wife because “it was just intolerable to be with her”. He is very charming, and utterly deadly. He even follows the golden child / scapegoat pattern with his own children.

Once I realised who and what he was, I didn’t give him a backward glance. Everything is a show, all about the perception of him, not about the reality of the devastation he causes in other people’s lives. I haven’t thought about him for years till this thread. Reports from old mutual acquaintances show nothing has changed.

Karenspolos

Your post made me shudder.

I don’t really understand what a narcissist is? It seems like there are many many traits. Can I ask your opinion about a man I know . Some traits that have been suggested here seem quite similar to his personality. He is charming and outgoing, funny and sociable to the outside world .to know him personally is to know that he Will fill a woman with compliments and praise and needs a lot of attention/ ego boosting/ compliments/ attention etc , only for him to drop contact/ interest with that woman once the ego stroking stops or he gets more attention from his different individual women that he keeps in constant communication with . He is self absorbed and feigns interest when I have problems( clearly doesn’t) but wouldn’t ever question or occur to ask how i am ...will revert every conversation to himself . He essentially dumps friends/ relationships of his needs are not met and there is no room for a relationship with a woman who doesn’t tend to his every need and never question him on his actions . I’m at a loss as to what type of a person this is ...is this a narcissist ? Sorry for my ignorance

Alltolook - it sounds like he might be. A good test is - does he get angry if you hold a different opinion from him or disagree with him?
Can he sulk for England?
Does he seem to think he is the only person in the world who has ever.... and therefore needs full and endless admiration/ pity/attention/support for it but belittles or ignores anyone else who has had a similar experience?
Does he hate people who are more successful than him and put them down at all times, including younger more vulnerable family members?
And biggest clue of all: can he never apologise because he is always right?

No, it's their personality and mental makeup. It's like asking can someone autistic change. They can act differently in certain contexts but it doesn't change the underlying chemistry. However narcissism and being a horrible person are orthogonal and do not have to both be present

Ex is a textbook narc. After 16 years he managed to turn all but a few against me saying our break up was my fault, sharing personal information and private conversations etc.

A few of those have recently apologised to me as he is now involved in a relationship breakdown very close to home ...

He will no doubt do the same again (I was wife number 2 and he did it to number 1 too)

No, never.

No, my father is a textbook case. Has been emotionally abusive to me for 40 years. I see him as little as I possibly can.
They are incapable of loving their own children, let alone anyone else.

One step.. he was certainly angry with me on a number of occasions when I called him out on his treatment of other people . He ignores me for a couple of days and when I questioned him about his sulking, he made up some bullshit story .it was like I had seen through him and he did not like it one bit . He has complex issues , discusses them, whinges about them but won’t take advice or actively
Do anything to improve his circumstances .steangely enough, he seems to lack sympathy or empathy , yet he says all the right things but after confiding in him, he would never ask again how the situation is or how I feel about it eg a family sickness/ problem etc. It’s like he doesn’t give a toss by his actions, yet his words are perfect. Am I making sense here?? He will apologise but really only so I won’t think badly of him or other people won’t think badly of him. He likes to have women friends like puppets on a string also .

In my experience this isn’t just men either. I know many woman who display many narcissistic traits. I guess the stereotype is its mostly men that are narcissistic. I’ve found that the female narcissists I have experiences with display many of the traits everyone has mentioned. It’s only once they’ve been exposed and the mask falls off you see them for what they really are.

My sister is one of those. She portrayed the perfect wife and mother to the outside world but when we found out she was cheating on her husband and the lies, deceit. I was astounded by her behaviour and the way she discarded her husband, she exposed herself as a very cruel cold hearted person with absolutely no empathy.

When her affair partner ended the relationship she was with someone else within a couple of weeks. I now heave very little to do with her.

They have an empty hole where the soul should be and need constant attention (narcissistic supply) in order to fill the void.

They walk among us, in many forms

@4cats2kids Mine too. Most online blogs about narc parents assume it's the mother. I suppose because mothers have mor edirect contact usually, so have mor epotential to do long term harm if they are constantly in you rface. But my dad was and is a monster, adored by his public minions. I see as little of him as is decently possible.