DH touching me whilst asleep

[qwertyl]

Am downstairs in utter shock.... after an early night and offer of back rub from'd'h woke up to find him touching me.... I stopped him before he went further but he'd already put his fingers inside me I'm sure to check if I was asleep.... oh god I feel sick. I hate him right now

Christ this is a shit show.

This isn't the equivalent of being woken up by oral.

This is the equivalent of me poking my DH to check he's asleep and then sticking two fingers in his ass while I masturbate myself off.

He's using her as a aide to his orgasms.

Some women on this thread are thick as mince.

OP. It is sexual assault. He knows it too. He doesn't care. What the men apologists don't realise is this sort of behaviour is only displayed by bastards who go on to do more and more bastard things.

Naive, loving women, who minimalise and think men are stupid and just need teaching, usually come back in a few years and admit it got a lot worse.

Don't waste those years. Cut your lossesnow and find a man who doesn't believe he's entitled to use you like a blow up doll.

Me and my partner regularly discuss whether we're comfortable with it. If one of us says no we don't do it until they say they are again.
You don't need to leave or uproot your children - he does. Your children will get over it, you cannot continue to be assaulted because you're worried about upsetting them. Children are so resilient and adapt well. They're more likely to be affected by your low emotions whilst this carries on.

Afternoon, everyone. OP - sorry to briefly hijack your thread. We hope you're ok.

We just thought since this thread had brought up the issue, it might be a good time to post a link to a page we created about rape myths, as part of our We Believe You campaign.

If anyone is interested in having a read there's a link above.

Thank you also to all those in support - I know we're all different and I really do understand that - for those that say they enjoy it - great and all good, my DH and I have had some of the best sex I've ever had. When I've been awake and up for it..... that's the bit that makes me truly sad. If he'd do this to get kicks, what else would he do.... rant over.... time to go home and see him I suppose but dc will keep us busy until bedtime

Just for a bit more clarification... I don't think there is an acceptable 'other point of view' on OP's experience. Women who are suggesting there is, need to know it is vile and unacceptable to victim blame and minimise sexual assault.

Quick summary for the hard of thinking...

OP is upset about what happened.
He grabbed her belly knowing she doesn't like it, while she was asleep.
He stopped when she woke up.
He waited until she was asleep, did it again, and pushed his fingers into her.
He knew she'd have said no if he initiated sex.
She thinks he's done it before, as she's woken up wet.

Does any of that sound like consensual sex? Sleepy wake up sex? No? That's right, because it isn't, it's assault.
No murmurs of endearment, actions to turn her on, nothing. NOT CONSENSUAL.

Ok?

My genuine sympathy and support go out to you. I'm sorry you have had to deal with this post on top of everything. But yes, you deserve respect and I am glad you are so firm on that understanding.

I wish all good things for you and your DC.

@HebeMumsnet thank you.

Wishing you strength OP, you know what happened, it was very clear actually in understanding you; I am baffled others couldn't understand what a horrible thing you have gone through

I can feel your pain and I wish you well; I can't even imagine how you broach this with him but obviously you will need to discuss it to ensure it never happens again, it's a horrible situation to find yourself in; keep strong, you sound a very capable and intelligent woman.

shepherdspie.

If your perception is that this is not sexual assault, then yes you are.

Sexual assault has already been defined in this thread. Your 'perception' or your own relationship boundaries are irrelevant.

Sexual assault has a legal definition, which doesn't include;

Well my last partner didnt mind
We're married
It's normal
I'd like it

Do you understand what a definition is?
Do you realise that personal anecdotes mean fuck all in a legal sense?

I stand by my thick as mince statement.

The argument being used on here right now, to justify a man violating his wife.

I'd be ashamed if I was you.

Yikes. This is horrible OP. Definitely would be a problem for me. Sorry this happened to you.

I think that everybody has been sensitive to the Qwertyl's situation despite the differences in opinion. Even those who see it differently have been respectful to how she feels.

Adora10, your approach is heavy handed and aggressive. I think you're trying to help the OP which is what this should be about but you seem to want to point score against other posters which adds an unpleasant tone to the thread. It is not okay to call people thick if they disagree with you. Have you thought that maybe the other posters don't give a shit what you say either? It's not a competition. Shepherspie has made her point eloquently and politely and has said nothing wrong.

Interesting thread and I hope you are okay in the long run Qwertyl. As a previous poster said, I think you need to talk to him and get to the bottom of what he thought he was playing at. If he has kinks that he wants to explore, he needs to talk to you about them before just going for it and leaving you scared and confused. That's not consensual and it's not okay.

Yes please don't turn on each other - I think everyone has tried to help by offering opinion. I'm tired and probably irrational so I sought advice. I know my own feelings but being able to discuss has hugely helped so thank you and thank you Mumsnet

Adora There was nothing wrong with your approach.
Please ignore all who say otherwise.

See.....that's perception.

I perceive it as thus...other's may not.

Sexual assault has a 'definition'. It is not open to individual interpretation.

Hth.

Surely it's only assault if the other person feels they have been assaulted?

Other posters have said that they have experienced this act and enjoyed it. I would argue that assault is only that if it is intended to violate and interpreted as a violation by the individual.

Some women like having their hair pulled during sex. To others, that is assault. Therefore hair pulling cannot be generally defined as assault. It is subjective. It comes down to both parties and their experience of it.

If the OP feels assaulted, then that is her truth.

Sass you can't apply your truths to everyone else as may others perceptive it differently. A perpetrator is only 'thus' if it was his intention to violate. A victim is someone who feels violated.

Hth

Oh OP I hope you are ok and figure out the best way to go with this as it sounds an awful situation

I hope those who offered their perceptions based on a misguided version of the truth now realise that this was assault and the OP has to live with that

The other important thing with boundaries though and it needs saying is that a sign of an abusive relationship is the erosion of boundaries (I have to say that this is not the case) but someone saying it is within their boundaries does not necessarily mean it isnt still assault

Some women like having their hair pulled during sex. To others, that is assault. Therefore hair pulling cannot be generally defined as assault. It is subjective. It comes down to both parties and their experience of it.

It's not in the least bit subjective. If you consent to hair pulling, then it's not assault. If you do not consent to hair pulling, it's assault.

Likewise, if you consent to being penetrated, not assualt. If you don't (or can't) consent, it's assault.

It's not about perception or intention it's about CONSENT. OP was not able to give it as she sleeping.

I agree with you on the consent bit because it has made the OP feel bad and therefore it can be perceived as assault but, if someone is kissing you and they gently bite your lip (without consent)...is that assault? Should they have asked for permission first? Sorry if I'm being pedantic but I think it is subjective. There are grey areas.

Yes your honour. I may have punched them in the face, but I don't perceive it as physical assault. You might do....but I don't.

For the love of sanity......

I am so glad I home school. Where the frigg are these people getting an education.