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Original poster

Spousal maintenance

55 replies

MickyCr · 03/12/2018 09:42

Can anyone he,p me

I retired 18 months ago and after months of loving messages and telling the world (and social media) how much she was looking forward to the rest of our lives together, my wife suddenly lef. It transpires she was having an affair with a “friend” of ours who was also cheating on his partner.

We have 3 kids ages 25, 22 and 15. The two boys are with me and I have the youngest who never stays with his mum.

We had a fair amount of cash and we have agreed to split the assets 50/50, about £650k each and I am staying in the family home which is part of my share. She has a new house.

I am retired and not working. She has no child care responsibilities but is still choosing not to work. We are negotiating on the pension share and spousal maintenance.

I have offered a pension split that will give her £32k when she is 60 in 9 years time. It is CPI index linked so is more likely to be £38k or more by the time it comes. I will retain a pension of just over £50k. I am not working, partly as I am retired but also due to child care (15 year old is struggling) and also due to some stress issues. My only income is my pension

We have offered £300 per month transitional spousal maintenance for 5 years which would be capitalised into a lump sum. There are no reasons why she cannot work and she is well qualified with a strong cv.

She has come back via her solicitor wanting a far larger share of my pension (which will be my only income in years to come) and £150k maintenance

She is in a relationship with the same individual who is very wealthy but also canny and they will avoid any formal cohabiting and certainly not marriage.

Am I being unreasonable?

£150k over 9 years (the time leading up to her pension) is £17k per year. It seems wildly excessive and I do not have the money to pay such a lump.

As you’ll see reading this, I didn’t want any of this to happen.

My two boys have really struggled since she left just over a year ago

Advice anyone........

OP posts:
DaffoDeffo · 03/12/2018 09:46

what does your solicitor say?

Did you buy her new house and does she have a mortgage?

you have to ignore her new relationship, as annoying as that might seem

I don't think you are being unreasonable but also you have to realise that if she had a long amount of time out of work that going back to work isn't as easy as it sounds (though tbh it does sound like she has no intention of doing so)

why are you having to pay spousal maintenance for even 5 years let alone 9?

Original poster
MickyCr · 03/12/2018 10:04

There are loads of jobs she could do that would pay £20k gross and virtually meet all her monthly needs as a single person. She just doesn’t want to work and has stayed that in mediation meetings

I don’t see why I should need to pay any spousal maintenance but her arguement is that she has become so deskilled after years of child care that she can’t get work. Over the years since the kids were older she has 8 or 9 jobs that she always chose to leave when she got bored as we had enough income with my salary.

I bought the house and she has no mortgage

The offer came from my solicitor and was carefully crafted and with a logical rationale to every aspect. I’m waiting to hear what she recommends next.

I didn’t think I’d have to pay any SM but we thought some limited transitional support would come across as reasonable

It’s horrible and has turned my future plans upside down.

OP posts:
DaffoDeffo · 03/12/2018 10:10

well can I give you a piece of advice that I wish I had had when I got divorced (and I was in a very similar position to you)

stop right now being as reasonable as you are. I went out of my way to be nice and kind and reasonable and basically got completely fucked over because of it and I regret it now and it took me a long time to stop feeling bitter

don't be unpleasant, don't be mean or unkind - but think of yourself and your boys and your financial future.

you're doing what I did and going for a clean break divorce which is sensible. I didn't do the calculations you are doing now (worked out an amount over years then just capitalised it) - I just came up with a lumpsum amount and that was that.

You've bought her a house, you've offered her an extremely generous pension offer. Don't offer more than what you have done (the £300 capitalised over 5 years seems fine to me).

what you've got to realise is both her and her solicitor are seeing this as a bargaining game - you've offered X, they want Y and they expect you to settle in the middle. Your only mistake was offering X at the highest amount you wanted. What you probably needed to do was offer X minus 50% and then end up settling for X.

fwiw, my ex got an extremely well paid job about 5 days after I paid over the lumpsum settlement so it was obviously up his sleeve the entire time. I was devastated as I had to re mortgage the house to pay it.

why is your youngest not seeing her btw?

PurpleWithRed · 03/12/2018 10:11

I can't see why she should get any spousal maintenance at all if she is non resident parent and capable of supporting herself - 50:50 of all assets including pension and then she should be paying you child maintenance for your 15YO. If she chooses not to work that's her lookout.

Wherearemymarbles · 03/12/2018 10:37

Good thing is she has shown her true colours.

Stop being reasonable. She would likey fair worse in court which would expect her to work. Id give her no more than 2 years support.

I image her partner will be having a tough time with his ex so maybe you are seen as an easy meal ticket

Original poster
MickyCr · 03/12/2018 10:51

I’ve been completely reasonable and to date have paid everything for the last 13 months - she has very expensive tastes (gym, private medical, weekly beautician and rented a 4 bed 3 bathroom house at £2k a month when it was just for her - daughter at Uni).

I fear a crusty old County Court judge might favour her more as the little lady who gave yo her career for me - which wasn’t true.

To add to it when we got together she was young and had nothing - I out in a detached house mortgage free and some valuable endowments but I’m told these are too historic t be taken into account.

My nature is conciliatory and to want to broker agreeement but I can’t see a way forward here.

The need to pay her maintenance has shocked me and when I research the judgement (particularly Moyston) she would be entitled to very little so we thought we’d make a reasonable supportive and justifiable offer. Clearly not

My youngest simply feels abandoned - they had a terrible relationship and this has made it worse. He has his own demons to deal with and one is his mother.

You’re reassuring me - I’m waiting to speak to my solicitor but fear this is going to end up in Court and cost a fortune.

OP posts:
Unicornandbows · 03/12/2018 10:57

She needs to pay you csm for the youngest child. I would not pay spousal maintenance you need to go over this with a solicitor

DaffoDeffo · 03/12/2018 11:00

Micky, you are being too reasonable, seriously

next thing you'll be doing is paying more to avoid it going to court

let your lawyer fight this but don't pay more than what you've offered already. You've been reasonable. The reason you pay lawyers is you let them do the fighting

you concentrate on the kids and let him/her get on with it

and make sure it's a clean break divorce so you don't have to keep thinking about her

Wherearemymarbles · 03/12/2018 11:31

Good point above, she owes you child maintenance!

Going to court may turn out cheaper in the long run.

Bombardier25966 · 03/12/2018 11:37

If MN tells a man they are being more than reasonable, then you are definitely being more than reasonable!

And I'm in agreement with the others. The only thing you've done wrong is a) being so generous, and b) not sorting any ongoing commitments at the time the capital was divided.

Get back to your solicitor, and build up a picture in writing of her ability to work and earn a decent salary, and her reluctance to do so/ swapping jobs.

ACatsNoHelpWithThat · 03/12/2018 11:43

I doubt they'd order you to pay spousal maintenance out of pension income, but I'm not sure. Try posting on the Wikivorce website, they have solicitors on there who will give you free advice.

hellsbellsmelons · 03/12/2018 12:10

and £150k maintenance
Maintenance for what?
You are the RP and she should be paying you maintenance.
I agree with others.
You have been waaaaay too generous and now she is taking the piss.
Do not offer any more.
Tell her that's a final offer and that court is the next step if she doesn't like it.

InfiniteSheldon · 03/12/2018 12:14

No no no, stop offering anything start asking for maintenance. Give her thirty days notice and stop paying her bills in lieu of maintenance and change your solicitor this one is a numpty

m0vinf0rward · 03/12/2018 12:39

Time to get a hardball lawyer a them go to bat for you. Just ask them to get the best deal for you and your kids and set them loose. She's taking the piss big time, but by the sound of it she's a lazy ass entitled bi*Ch whom you've enabled for a long time. It's time to get angry and look after yourself. Stop being such a doormat.

Bluesmartiesarebest · 03/12/2018 12:52

How old are you and your ex? I think it’s makes a difference about spousal maintenance and future work expectations.

I agree with pp that your ex should pay you child maintenance and you need to get a tougher lawyer involved to fight your corner.

LemonTT · 03/12/2018 13:39

As a PP said you were far too generous to start with. This is a negotiation and making the first offer always shows your hand. Take a step back and think of your leverage and what you want to get out of it.

Remember you don’t have a compelling reason to make this a quick process. You are in the home (secure this position with your solicitor), have the kids and no need to get divorced in the near future. I would slow things down a lot, to the point of standstill. Make sure she knows it and keep rejecting or objecting to everything they ask for. You can if you want keep her tied up in knots for years. Once they know that, they will start being more reasonable. You can stop short of ever bringing it to court. Not using a solicitor helps too and makes it cheap. Just play it long and then revert to a solicitor when you need to.

Yes, she will be expected to work and it would be exceptional for her to get spousal maintenance.

Original poster
MickyCr · 03/12/2018 13:47

Thanks all of you

I’ve thought I was going mad. I’m 60 and she is 51. There is no reason at all why she can’t work. She is desperate to get a divorce but this can’t happen until the PSO has been dealt with

I can’t my head round why she should get SM but I’m advised she’s entitled to it. I thought £300 per month over 5 years and capitalised plus inflation was reasonable.

Strangely she can’t give a logical reason why she should get SM other than she wants to be ok financially (don’t we all) and whilst I’d like to have some CSM from her as she has no income it’s not worth asking. I also offered that as part of the deal I’d soak up all the schooling and other costs for the 15 year old and all his HE costs.

I’m speaking to the solicitor later and think we stick at the offer made and play it long.

OP posts:
jeaux90 · 03/12/2018 14:01

This is the negotiation of your life. I would instruct your solicitor to explain that the offer is conditional and if she doesn't accept it you will go for CM and let the whole thing go to court. Seeing as she is desperate for divorce and there is no compelling event for you to rush this through I would say you have the upper hand here.

theworldistoosmall · 03/12/2018 14:13

I would counter-offer.
6 months SM to allow her time to get on her own two feet and gain employment. I think that is more than generous.

I would also be making appointments with other solicitors to see how they would ensure she doesn't fuck anyone over.

theworldistoosmall · 03/12/2018 14:15

If the ex-has no income then how can she pay for CM?

cestlavielife · 03/12/2018 14:22

Take cm out of the sm?
If a 15 year old needs extra support and care (is this records e.g. is he under CAMHS? this is relevant under children's act

glamourous · 03/12/2018 14:30

You're being way too reasonable and I agree that it will come back to bite you and you'll feel bitter about it - I've been through similar and I wish I could go back.

If offer her 6 months SM or worst case, a year. £300 and no more than that.

I'd request CS - she chose to have a child so she could contribute to his upbringing. Just because she chose to leave (or rather have an affair), shouldn't mean she gets to wash her hands of parenthood.

If you bought her the house she's in, that should be included in any calculations you're doing as that's substantial and means she doesn't have to worry about a mortgage or rent every month.

I agree you should take your time with this - you are in no rush. Ditch solicitor until you actually need them.

This is your future and you've worked many years to be able to enjoy your retirement. She of course took the time out to raise the children but when she could have gone to work she chose not to and wanted you to support her - now her new man can support her.

Maybe I'm a bit bitter on your behalf because she cheated lol

Good luck!

FogCutter · 03/12/2018 14:33

Another vote for stop trying to be so nice!!

Your existing offer to her sounds entirely reasonable.

drspouse · 03/12/2018 14:37

I'd be tempted to decrease your initial offer!

I was under the impression that SM was only for spouses that a) couldn't work due to having young children at home and b) er, had young children at home.

Bluesmartiesarebest · 03/12/2018 14:44

My DH had similar arguments from his ex. The point that your ex won’t take on board (this type of entitled princess never does) is that after a divorce everyone is poorer and has to adjust their lifestyle, not just the man. Their mediator told her that she needs to learn how to cut her own nails, wash her own hair and put cream or cleanser on her own face when she was trying to justify beauticians appointments! Mediation is much cheaper than court but it won’t work for everyone.

My DH was told that it is very unusual to award ongoing spousal maintenance after retirement unless there is exceptional wealth involved. If your share of the pension is your only income you need to keep saying that you can’t afford any spousal maintenance while you are supporting your child because his needs are your financial priority.