Aibu to judge him for this

[Oops109]

I've been seeing a guy for about 5 months. We've had our ups and downs but generally it's ok although I have some doubts.

However something's happened and I don't know if I'm being unfair or not. His best friend is getting married to an American girl. She's a Trump supporter and pro guns. Recently he went to stay with them for a weekend and whilst there they had dinner with some family friends of hers. One of them apparently asked my boyfriend 'aren't you worried muslims are taking over your country? You have a Muslim mayor aren't you worried?" And when he replied and said no and explained why they said things like "what about your children?"

He told me this afterwards and it's made me feel very odd. I'm Asian although I'm not Muslim and I feel deeply uncomfortable about this. He's said to me before that I'm invited to the wedding and I told him when he repeated this to me that I felt uncomfortable going. His response was "that's fine. I don't want you to be anywhere you feel uncomfortable". He does say this girl is really nice but that he's puzzled his best friend is marrying her as they seem so different Politically. I know my boyfriend doesn't agree with her view himself.

I know inside I am judging him for saying she's nice and her family are nice and I suppose I just want to know If im being unreasonable.

God just reread the OP. It friends of the friends girlfriend who made the remark. This is just down to her voting republican 🤔

I am not sure the relationship is for you OP. Definitely not for him if you get into this level of convolution. I mean you have basically vetoed most of the population of Germany as third party friends.

OP - you need to grow up and be honest with yourself.
In the case of this particular woman - the fact that he liked her before you, and now you mention that she is ‘pretty’ - you clearly are blinded by some inferiority. And you are getting some hurt ego pumpered by doing this to him.
I wish he realised that and ran.

Also, you need to realise that democracy is respecting people’s rights to have their own opinion.
A large portion of US population voted for someone - and even if you (or I) don’t like him - branding all of those people as evil/racist/etc - is not correct.
Just like - it’s incorrect assuming that half of the UK who voted for Brexit hate foreigners...
And none of this is normally relevant to who a friend of a bf is marrying.

To be honest, this all seems a bit bonkers. The person who made these comments was a friend of the family of the fiancee of the best friend of your boyfriend. So, some FIVE steps removed from him. I doubt there are any of us who could go out five steps in any direction, through friends, family, and acquaintances and not find some pretty distasteful views somewhere in that audience.

It is clear that your boyfriend doesn't agree with those views. He told them so. Seems to me like he did exactly the right thing.

Being pro-gun is not an extreme view in America (as incomprehensible as it is to most of us on this side of the pond). Nor is voting Republican. There are many Republicans who voted for Trump while holding their nose, out of habit, familial tradition, or any number of reasons. Being a Republican voter does not equate with being a racist.

The idea that you're judging your boyfriend on this stuff is a bit weird. I do wonder if a PP didnt hit the nail on the head when they said that you may actually just be a bit insecure about the girl, given your boyfriend's previous interest in her.

Your boyfriend has done nothing wrong here. If you are looking for a reason to dump him, you don't need one. Just dump him, already. But to hold the words of a friend of the family of the fiancee of his best friend against him is pretty bizarre.

Mmmmm. This is why I didn't give the additional info because I thought people would latch on to it. Before I mentioned it, it seemed like a more reasoned response.

Im not denying that I feel my boyfriend is possibly excusing her behaviour because he had/has a thing for her and that that is also upsetting and concerning me. But mainly I am worried that we have too big a gap in how we view people. I'm prepared to accept that may be unreasonable of me but it is how I feel and I suppose on that basis it probably should end.

OP - just don’t gaslight him and tell him something is wrong with HIM.
He isn’t a racist and isn’t condoning racism.
His only crime is having had a crush on a pretty girl with different politics.
And NOT throwing a fit at his friends party - and trying to re-educate them all on the errors of their beliefs...
Which is what any person who disagrees with anyone’s politics should do.
Clearly.

Poor guy.

With all due respect MM you've made your position clear and I don't really think you have anything to add.

I've stated several times why I feel someone who voted for Trump is far more offensive to me than someone who has just voted different politically. Regardless of how many people voted for him he is someone who has held abhorrently racist views and been investigated for discrimination against black people. The fact that this person has voted for them and also socialises with Islamophobic people and yet my boyfriend still feels able to label her and her family as nice does not sit well with me especially not if it's due to the fact that he's willing to make allowances for her because he used to have a thing for her.

I am starting to find your comments quite offensive. I really have stated plenty of times that this is not just because she voted for a different political party or that she voted republican. She voted for someone who stands for an attack on everything I am and cannot change. Maybe you should check your own white privilege bwfore minimisig this sort of behaviour.

OP - you have no idea what race I am. Do you?
Race aside - democracy still gives people right to opinions you disagree with.

And that has NOTHING to do with the fact that you came on here, and told a story omitting important facts that showed you in a different light.
You have a fixation on someone, you looked up her grandfather’s past to justify your obsession/condemnation.
This isn’t healthy.

And the thing is - none of that is helping you feel better about the past.
He liked her first. Didn’t get far. Ended up with you - presumably a lot later. In your mind he settled, somehow. So you need to punish him.
And it won’t make a difference.
Really - move on. There are other men out there.

Just check their politics, and their friends’ -and their partners... And their grand-parents backgrounds too.

This is the funniest thread in a while around here.
By the time you grow up - you’ll hopefully smile about it too...

But like a previous poster has said, lots of Teump voters are fundamentally "nice". They givbake for the local church bake sale, thry give their outgrown clothes to goodwill charities, thry clear their elderly neigh ours drives of snow, thry bake a lasagne when the others neighbour husband dies, they buy cookies at the doorstep. They are kind to their pets and children. And thry vote Teump for X reason which in the USA may as mentioned involve Republican views that out weight the pillock leading the party. Many people would automatically describe all those people as utterly awful people to be avoided at all costs.

You might choose not to be friends with anyone who votes Trump or anyone who's friends vote Trump or whose friends partners vote Trump or for all of those your UK equivalent but I'm not sure it's reasonable to expect your partner to cut his vest mate out of his life.

Be honest with him that you cannot tolerate him testing her views and you no longer wish to be with someone who supports someone who supports those views.

I didn't look up her grandfathers past. She told my boyfriend that on the weekend he visited which he repeated to me along with the Islamophobic encounters.

I think it's interesting that you say I failed to omit details. I deliberately did not put that in at first because I wanted to see if I was being unreasonable in my discomfort but clearly this is escaping you. Thanks for your input, i appreciate what you have to say. I have not hid away from saying or admitting that their previous encounter has made me feel even more uncomfortable about all of this - and that some of that may be unreasonable and judgemental of me. But it still does not diminish or take away from my general unease about this. I understand you can't see that and that's ok. We are going to have to agree to disagree.

Five months and you've had your ups and downs? Now this agonising. Do you love drama or something?

Having downs in the first five months means this relationship isn't one for life.

What do you think a relationship is supposed to be like?

My ex-h is an American anti-gun probably mostly ex-Marxist (worn out more than ex-Marxist)
His best friend (alsoUS) votes Trump and owns at least 2 guns.
They’ve been friends for over 35 years. They argue constantly, will never change the others mind but I suppose have other values they share. I don’t understand it, never did. People are weird.

If you like this guy & will have minimal interaction with the odd-balls, don’t dump him

However be wary of marriage and moving to the US and having kids there as you’ll have a hell of a job leaving with your kids if it all goes pear—Shaped.

Op your boyfriend had a perfectly normal and acceptable response to a few social situations. One, he found out that somebody he thinks is nice and attractive is a republican and voted Trump. He respected that was her choice and her decision. it’s not outrageous nor does it make him borderline EDL material. Just a grownup confident in his belief and democracy. The US has a particularly robust constitution that inhibits extremism in the executive leader as Mr Trump has realised. He can’t make the laws.

Next up he was a guest in someone’s home when another guest was offensive. He challenged it quietly and politely. Again he didn’t behave like he was on a reality show and cause agg. Or whatever the US version is.

He’s ok and his behaviour is ok. If you don’t like it then end it because you can’t tolerate his views or behaviour but recognise that he was being respectful and polite. I am sure there is someone out there for you who blanks friends who don’t conform to your views and starts fights in other people’s homes. I am sure he will be a catch.

I think there are some very racist news stories in the American media that make out that Muslims have ‘taken over’ certain areas like Birmingham etc. They’ve been fed lies. My mum’s friend who is American totally thought this and he was, I thought, an amazing bloke. Seems not. Also a trump supporter- say no more.

I get you, OP. I don't think you're being unreasonable.

I'm dark skinned and an ex of mine had a friend who used to send him lewd postcards 'as a joke'. When i came on the scene the postcards changed and became of black women as the ex 'liked exotic women now'.

I went nuts. My ex kept on banging on about how great his friend was and how it was meant as a joke. It diminished him in my eyes that he'd try to stick up for his friend instead of calling him out on it.

This stuff is really not ok. It's not ok that your boyfriend seems to think it's not that big a deal. The reason it bothers you that he keeps saying she's nice is because essentially he's defending her when he shouldn't be AT ALL.

You have a right to feel safe and what white people don't get (don't want to get, more like) is that racism is very scary if you're on the receiving end or anywhere close to it. I can see why you feel this is too close for comfort.

Racism kills people, you are not over reacting.

When I was a lot younger I went to college in North Carolina and became friends with a girl whose parents lived in a very rural area. I went with her to stay for the weekend and during that visit heard her dad refer to “ niggers” and “ coons” - I had never in my life heard anybody use language like that. I felt completely conflicted because I was a guest in their home and because ( like most people I met) they were charming and friendly to me etc etc. I think I probably made a very weak protestation like “ I don’t believe that” but didn’t challenge the language hard because of my upbringing about being a guest and manners. Probably some part of that was being very young ( 20) and being a Brit in another country too. Now I would handle it with much more confidence. I have no doubt that they were not the only people I met who held those views but everyone continued to be charming and friendly to me. My point is that most people are not whole heartedly bad - they will have good qualities even when there are aspects of their character or beliefs that we disagree with or dislike. Your partner will not want to rock the boat with his friend over his choice of partner and may feel his loyalties are divided between you both. You have to remember your partner is not the Trump supporter. It’s not even his friend... so seems quite a way removed to me.

Do the maths. You and your BF both now 30 people. They all know 30 people and they, in turn know 30 people.

That means you have a network of 54,000 people. That's a lot of people to prune and some of them will definitely be unsavoury.

@EyeSaidTheFly

You are right - racism is terrible. And your ex’s friend was doing something directly targeting you.

If you read OP’s post - it’s her bf’s friend’s fiancée’s relative - who made a comment about Muslims.
BF re-buffed it.
OP isn’t Muslim.
However OP assumes all republicans are racist.
And with that broad brush - her bf is too, because his friend’s fiancée is.
And the conclusion of racism is based on the fact that bf said the fiancée and family were nice.

Mind boggling logical leaps.
And isnt even close to the situation you described.

(And that completely ignores the fact that OP had issues with the fiancé and her bf having a history.
And I have a theory that if not for this - she’d have found something else wrong with fiancée and the bf)

The OP has said from the start that her difficulty lay in her OH's BF's fiancée being Trump supporter. It doesn't matter whether she's Republican or not she supports Trump and his abhorrent views; the viewpoints of a certified racist, misogynist and sexual predator.

There are plenty of Republicans who didn't vote for Trump - but they were overturned by the load of voters he targetted - the ones who couldn't wait to put their woes down at someome elses door. "First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out..."

@Oops109 I'd go with your gut instinct. The elephant in the room is your bloke saying he wouldn't want you to go anywhere where you feel uncomfortable, when he should be grabbing you by the hand, trumpeting (no pun intended) your wonderful achievements / personality / looks etc. and challenging their bigotry head on. He should be trying to educate these people, on their territory to help them understand how insular is their viewpoint. They appear to stereotype Muslims as a danger - how do they identify Muslim - anyone with brown skin and a turban? Well bugger me backwards that's a Sikh - and do not start stirring that pot.

I'm proud that we live (mostly) in a society that a kid will identify a classmate by features such as 'the one with the red coat and glasses' instead of by colour or race.

Well I think the relationship is probably over. I had a chat with him last night about it and he got quite angry with me and didn't really want to discuss it.

Similar to some posters on here he brought up the Trump was voted by lots of people and I just don't know these guys and therefore it's easy to just frame them around their views and who they voted for and socialise with. But this was all said with quite a lot of anger and upset at me.

I take on board people's points that maybe I'm overreacting but I think either way it's clear we're just not suited enough.

I'd go with your gut OP. I find it amusing that some posters think that this is a non-issue, although everyone has their own boundaries as I said before. I think that you can tell a lot about someone by who they choose to hang around with. A pp had said her friends were varied and listed their faults - they could do this because they recognised those faults and had a label for them. What your BF can't seem to do is vocalise (even to you) that these new people in his life are being racist. He has already suggested you would feel uncomfortable and has told you things that he should realise would make you feel uncomfortable about his best friend's new family. He may just be very young and unsure of himself, but it isn't down to you to teach him. I'd keep your dignity and walk. There are plenty of guys out there who would see that the situation concerned you and be asking you how they should have reacted and listened to your concerns, rather than getting angry and raging at you.

Yes - you have over reacted and you know that. You were just not that into him - but you weren’t honest with yourself. You also have a chip on your should with this girl being pretty and your bf may have had a thing for her before you, I think this has clouded your judgement tbh. I think most people will know people (or friends of friends) that have voted for trump - and it’s allowed you know? We are all allowed to make our own decisions as adults. You were looking for a reason to leave him and you found one (a tenuous one at that)!

A very good friend of mine supports trump - he has guns, hunts and is 100% not a racist. I’m not going to ghost him Becasue he supports trump - he is free to support who he wants to and I respect that, just as he respects who I support.

I'm sure fifty people have said this on the thread already, but Hitler was also voted in via a democratic process, and surely the apologists for the Trump voters are not going to suggest that makes Nazism something you just shrug your shoulders about because people have the right to vote for whoever they like, and you don't all expect your friends to think as you do? What a cop out. Ffs.

There's a lot of underthinking on this thread, and some of it seems to be from people (habitual non-voters who don't read the papers or watch the news because 'it upsets me, and it's all biased, and it's too hard to understand, anyway, and it's out of my control' ?) who see no relationship between the political views and actions of individual people and actual governments. People vote for actual governments. That's how it works. Trump would not be in power now if it weren't for the perfectly 'nice' people who probably don't have horns and have nice table manners who voted for him.

The helplessness may say a lot about the current climate in this country, which is like watching someone nominated for the Darwin awards sawing off the branch they are sitting on because it would be too difficult to stop sawing it off now.

But no, OP, you didn't ovrereact at all. Better you found out now than later on.

I get you OP. Your partner spent time with racists and came back weakly saying they were nice.

It would change my opinion of him too.

If those people met you they would perceive you through their racist views. Apparently your boyfriend is ok with that. Although he says he’s fine with you not going, he is also saying he wants to go without you and have fun with the racists.

Ugh. YANBU.

Thank you. I was really upset by some of the comments yesterday that harped on about the fact that he had a crush on her as being the deciding factor in my discomfort. I know that's not true but when people keep shouting you down you give up explaining.

I thought a lot about his comments to me on this and then our conversation yesterday and I know that what i find most upsetting is how he is normalising their behaviour, saying their nice, I haven't met them etc etc.

I thought myself yesterday when people on this thread and then him said trump was democratically elected that so was hitler. It's just not ok to not call out people who have voted for someone with such extreme views who happily spreads hatred.

I also am feeling really incensed that my boyfriend who thinks he is very right on and understands racism and is happy to call it hypothetically and read the guardian cannot deal with the reality when his brown skinned girlfriend tells him what's it actually like to deal with it in everyday life and just wants me to laugh at it with him. He's not racist but he's definitely minimising and normalising their views to himself and trying to do it to me and that's not ok. I think it makes it worse and it diminishes him a lot in my eyes.

He's quite stubborn and never apologises so I'm not expecting a massive U turn or any senstivity from him. I felt really hurt by how he spoke to me yesterday. He said he was leaving my house today and I suspect I will just never hear from him again. It's all very sad but probably for the best.

Well you’ve got your safe space. Of course living in safe places works both ways and allows views and opinions to flourish unchallenged. That’s the point people are trying to make.

The people at that party stereotyped all Muslims. They couldn’t see that lots of people believe in Islam and that they have different motivations and belief systems. The same goes for Trump supporters

Really the Hitler comparisons are distasteful and daft if you know the American Constitution. But then we were lead down that path by an OP who judges people for having German ancestry.