Aibu to judge him for this

[Oops109]

I've been seeing a guy for about 5 months. We've had our ups and downs but generally it's ok although I have some doubts.

However something's happened and I don't know if I'm being unfair or not. His best friend is getting married to an American girl. She's a Trump supporter and pro guns. Recently he went to stay with them for a weekend and whilst there they had dinner with some family friends of hers. One of them apparently asked my boyfriend 'aren't you worried muslims are taking over your country? You have a Muslim mayor aren't you worried?" And when he replied and said no and explained why they said things like "what about your children?"

He told me this afterwards and it's made me feel very odd. I'm Asian although I'm not Muslim and I feel deeply uncomfortable about this. He's said to me before that I'm invited to the wedding and I told him when he repeated this to me that I felt uncomfortable going. His response was "that's fine. I don't want you to be anywhere you feel uncomfortable". He does say this girl is really nice but that he's puzzled his best friend is marrying her as they seem so different Politically. I know my boyfriend doesn't agree with her view himself.

I know inside I am judging him for saying she's nice and her family are nice and I suppose I just want to know If im being unreasonable.

Some people would judge those who use the term ‘moron’ just as badly as those who are racist.

And those people need to give their heads a shake.

When I said I didn't want to come he said "I don't want you to be somewhere where you feel Uncomfortable"

So where does that leave your relationship with him, then?

I know it's only five months in but if you're already in a situation where he's going to go and hang out with his racist friends while you stay away, how do you see your future looking?

YANBU at all - he's being insensitive and unsupportive as a result of his privilege. I would trust your instincts and cut your losses if I were you.

American has a far more profound and complex race problem than the uk. It’s politics are more right wing. If you have friends there you will hear or witness views and behaviour that are not acceptable in the uk. You also know that there are many countries where it is culturally acceptable to behave in ways that UK society wouldn’t tolerate. It’s just a matter of picking your poison but racism, misogyny and homophobia are rife in places like Russia, India, Saudi, China, I could go on. The average US Trump supporter probably doesn’t rate that highly on the international spectrum of deplorability. You must know that or live a very sheltered life. None of us need to tolerate these views and we have a duty to challenge them but there are ways and means. He seemed to have done so but in a measured and low key way. Personally I think think US politics needs more of this approach and less frothing.

Basically you are just not that into him.

Yes maybe it's true. Maybe I'm just not that into him. I know he's not racist. I'm hurt that he thinks she's really nice and apparently so is her mum. But I'm aware that that might be me being petty and mean spirited.

Only you know what makes you happy or wary. It seems to me that you should try to work through this with him, explain your worries and fears and ask to hear what he thinks. He does seem to be feeling a little stuck, so maybe some time to consider it all would be good for both of you? If you do want to talk it through I'd suggest explaining to him first that this is an issue for you and you'd like to get together to talk it through in a day or two. By then he will have hopefully re-assessed his boundaries/opinions and clarified them either enough to make you feel reassured, or not. Every relationship will have lines where the couple get together and resolve issues or beliefs and how they will deal as a couple with adversity. You either put the work in now with him (and he does the same) or you walk away.

I suspect its easier for someone who has me er experienced racism to sperate out the part where someone is racist and the part where the subject wasn't raised and they were funny and kind about other stuff.
I also think when it's someone we care about or someone who matters to someone we care about it's easier to compartmentalise their personality into the bits we want to ignore and forget (racist comments) with the bits we like (rescues small animals, made me cake)
A guy telling me on a first date he didn't agree with interracial relationships was a line for me. Him saying his mates partner didn't agree with them Woukd be different. But that's my line, and my life as a white person. You can put your line anywhere you want to and that's ok be a use its keeping you safe / isn't harming anyone else.

Talk to him and be honest. Trust your gut on his response.

There are people who are meet thresholds for niceness and kindness who hold views we don’t accept or tolerate. That dichotomy exists in many people in many countries and in many cultures. It’s why Hilary lost the election. She didn’t connect the “isms” and ignorance with ordinary and nice people steeped in centuries of white Christian working class culture.

You are Asian so you know that people in that part of the world who may be bigoted and ignorant towards minorities. In fact you know that it it fairly ingrained or least sits below the surface. The sheer turmoil that has happened and continues is a testament to that. These will be nice people. I know that from my own cultural background. So I know that my life in London as pretty much part of an urban elite in an international and diverse city is not representative of this country and lots of the rest of the world.

Have you really never heard a nice person drop an ism?

Mr TT had and still has a very different political and world view from me. Although he has flipped completely from Tory to Labour since we met whilst I remain firmly moderate. But culturally we are different. None to recently he commented on a mutiny in my home country and I looked at him weirdly before saying, do you mean the uprising? I still don’t doubt my love for him.

While I think all racists voted for Trump, not everyone who voted for Trump is racist. I think the Muslim question is just ignorance - Fox news has been spouting this stuff for ages. Maybe she believed what she saw on the TV news - she wouldn't be the only one.

Also remember that being pro-gun is not an extreme view in America. It is horrifyingly mainstream.

I can understand why you'd feel uncomfortable, but I would want to meet them myself before I judged.

I don’t think we can doubt the woman was racist and ignorant. She was. The OP is questioning whether her boyfriend is an apologist and if so should she move on.

I think to some extent he doesn’t understand the OPs position on this, that’s white privilege kicking in. For that reason he doesn’t know he is being an apologist and I sort of think he is. However we all get stuck with this because there is a lot of it out there, in many cultures and there are many versions of this. I have to say I have experienced it because I grew up in a divided society. I didn’t like it but it would be difficult to reject it all in every way. So yes I would describe people as nice but know they can or have said things that are prejudice. I think a lot of people have experienced this.

Unfortunately Trump has allowed the racists to re surface and new ones to be born; I'd not think much of them either but I'd keep my politics to myself and not engage with them about theirs; your boyfriend can't help what they believe but yeah I'd feel a bit pissed off he wasn't seeing them for what they are; ignorant arsholes imo.

I'd be more concerned about being with someone only 5 months and it being up and down, that;'d be my focus, not other's beliefs.

I think she was ignorant but I'm not sure she is a racist just because she voted for Trump if you see what I mean. But I feel like given her family friend's comments and the fact that she herself is reasonably middle class and affluent and therefore not coming from a marginalised section whom mainstream politics have left behind who feel they have no choice but to vote for Trump, it makes it all the more likely she is racist or prejudiced.

Technically the Muslim comment isn’t racism I suppose as it is a religion. She is probably a white Christian. Many many middle class women voted for Trump because they felt marginalised and threatened by the diversity and elitism.

Anyway the question I would put to you, is have you ever been to diner with a nice middle class Asian family who said something that was prejudiced against another minority? If so how did you react and how would you have described them. Compare this to your boyfriend and see how you feel.

OP - i’ve lived in the US for a long time - and I know what he is talking about.
A lot of conservative Americans - especially from the middle of the country ARE nice. In regular human interactions - they are....
There was a policeman on duty outside my office building - in a southern US city - and every morning he stood there and smiled to people passing by and said good morning.
People I didn’t know well invited me to their houses for meals. Etc.
So - they were nice....
And yet, at the same time, if one dig deeper - most of them were republican. And some might have been racist.
In the US people rarely change party affiliation - so if her whole family were republican, that is unlikely to change....

So - I don’t know what that means for you and your BF.
If you aren’t into him - you don’t need to stay with him. But this alone isn’t a real reason. Really isn’t.

Not all republicans are racist. Just like not all pro-Brexiteers hate foreigners. Or evil.

If a relationship isn't working for you then you end it - you don't need a reason and any reason is good enough.

However, I also think that blaming someone for their best friend's fiance's family's opinion is unfair. I have a family member who is homophobic and one who is sexist. I'd be pissed of at being blamed for their views, nevermind my fiance's best friend getting it in the neck! And, for what it is worth, despite being a bisexual woman myself I can still see past their sexism/homophobia - they have good qualities too.

Lastly, I want to reiterate my first point. Just because none of this would be a dealbreaker for me, that doesn't mean it can't be a deal breaker for you.

Adal but you see the difference is you see their beliefs for what they are. OP's partner hasn't said "they were racist" and said he thinks that is wrong. He hasn't really done much other than repeat their conversation and say they were "nice". That's where the problem is.

He hasn't said they're racist. But he has disagreed with their views. He did say he was surprised his friend was marrying her and I said he must share some of those views or be sympathetic to them and he got annoyed with me and said no.

I want to reiterate that I don't have this view about going out with people of different political beliefs but I really feel Trump is a big step to the right that in just not comfortable with and Im not comfortable with my boyfriend labelling them all as really nice apart from this. It would be like me saying someone from the BNP had awful beliefs but was otherwise really nice. Might be true but I just wouldn't think that way or reiterate it to my non white partner.

Also I'm aware this might be a massive drip feed but before this girl got together with her fiancé my boyfriend had tried it on with her and got knocked back. He says he didn't know her political views at the time. But it all makes me more uncomfortable. This might also be a bit outing and again don't want it to be a drip feed and didn't include it because it's a bit outing and I feel like it's unfair to be judged on your grandparents but one of them was in the hitler youth.

Jeez. Writing it down I feel I should just run away.

This is sounding farcical really. If you like somebody you do not need to vet every past acquaintance, friend and anybody they made a pass at. You certainly don't need to check what their friend's girlfriend's grandad did in the war. FFS most germans will have had a grandparent in the Hitler youth. Incidentally the Nazis were ok with muslims and they had their own brigade.
You need to check out his labour voting friends as well given their reputation for being anti-semitic.

Her views were islamophobic not racist. Muslims can be of many ethnic backgrounds just like christians.

"i wouldn’t want connections in my life where I was regularly spending dinner parties educating thick Islamophobes"

Well you wouldn't be educating them because that type of person can't be educated. They change their views so rarely it may as well be never.

Any woman who voted for trump, to me, has something wrong with their noggin.

How much will you have to see them? Are they based in the uk?

( I know that still doesn't change the fact that he's describing her and her family as nice, knowing their views. Seems like he's a bit naive at best).

OP - given your recent post - about the fiancé - it does seem that you are somewhat insecure about her and your bf.... And him mentioning that she/her family is nice is triggering something for you.

If you knew history, her grandfather back in germany had no choice but be in Hitler Youth... just like my atheists kids say a prayer at school - as they all do...

Yes it's why I didn't put it in originally as I didn't want it to influence people's opinions. I haven't liked her much beforehand or to be honest thought very highly of him pursuing her for various reasons but all this recent stuff has really put me off and I don't know if I am just being super unfair.

I think maybe the sad truth is we're just not suited

OP - if it makes you feel better - you can make it about something else - her political preferences....
But it seems to me - and I don’t know you - is that this was doomed from the start.
Why did you get into a relationship with him - when you seemed to have some sort of jealousy/inferiority over his previous crush? Was it to prove something to yourself?
And now it seems like you are punishing him all over.
Not sure why this needed to have happened to him.
He hasn’t done anything wrong, other than liking someone over you at some point in time.
Really.

I think that's a bit unfair. It probably does influence me a bit but a lot of my discomfort now comes from the fact that i am appalled that my BF went for someone who voted for someone with quite abhorrent views and stills considers her and her family very nice even if those views also make him uncomfortable. We aren't American and whilst those views might be more normalised there I would really hope it's not here. It is judgemental I know but I also can't help feeling that he is also very out of touch either with my feelings or that possibly because she is very pretty to him he's finding it easy to excuse her behaviour.