If your husband might maybe possibly slightly be getting too close to someone...

[DandyScandi]

This feels ridiculous.

I am beginning to suspect my husband is getting closer to a friend/person he met whilst working (think "client" but not really). But in a way that I can't possibly question without feeling like a crazy wife! As in - there is nothing to suggest anything untoward, other than the fact I know my husband...

He always talks about who he has had meetings with and what his day has looked like (isn't office based,so it's a topic of general chat in our household, who he's met and where he's been etc) - but he's started being quite evasive in offering details. When he is evasive and I've questioned him more, it's been this woman that he's meeting. But his evasiveness is totally not the kind I could call him out on, as it's so "natural". Like he'll say "then i have a meeting with someone at 2pm before going to meet Jack to debrief". So it's totally normal! But he'd usually say "I'm meeting Ruth at 2pm" or "I'm meeting a person from X business at 2pm"

And he looks a little more...forced?! when he mentions he's meeting her. Like he's trying to look normal about it. But maybe he just is normal and I'm reading into that?!

And (we freely swap phones and use each others messaging apps etc, so he's not trying to hide stuff as he knows I'll likely see chats etc) he messages her A LOT. More than any other "client"/ friend. But none of the messages are anything suspicious. But just quite frequent (for a guy who rarely replies to my messages!).

She's interested in his line of work, and he's offering her advice and support in that, which is also normal for his business - there are several people he's doing this for, but it seems different with her. But maybe I'm paranoid?

And finally, she confides quite a lot in him - but in a general chat kind of way, I think. So it can be quite personal, but not more than you would be with any friend. I think it's because the lines are blurred in his work between work and friendships - everyone ends up quite chummy and socialise a lot etc... clients and staff and other work connections etc. I'd feel more comfortable if she was clearly in the "work" category, but she seems to creep more and more into "friend I don't mention meeting" category. But he wouldn't hide it if I asked directly... and he's invited her to our home, and I know he's occasionally (but not often) mentioned me to her in messages (so she knows I exist!)...

If it makes a difference, she's VERY similar in looks and personality to his ex. And I'm very different to them (different race and different cultural background, so quite different!).

Do I sit back and watch quietly to see, so I don't come across as crazy?!

Do I ask him why he avoids telling me he's meeting her?

Do I just outright say "so do you have a crush on X or what?!"

Or what do I say or do? Just leave it seems the least insane to me, but I hate that it could become something more and I might have been able to stop it by mentioning it to him now. Or will it become something anyway, with someone else if not her, if that's the way he is...? I don't think he is, but if I've learnt anything on mumsnet, it's that we can't be as certain about men as we thought we could.

I feel ridiculous contemplating saying anything to him based purely on my hunch. But when is gut feeling actually worth acting on and when should it be ignored?

Gah! Thanks for any advice!

OP I wouldn’t wait until his annual leave, I would just talk to him, now.

Somebody said upthread to not negotiate your feelings and I agree 100%. He is your husband and his actions are hurting you - he needs to have that spelt out to him. He might (only might) be walking around in his happy little crush bubble thinking what a lovely little escape from day to day life this ‘harmless’ little fantasy is. You need to burst the bubble, bring him down to earth and tell him that it’s already hurting you and potentially risking what you have together.

It doesn’t matter what his job is - he shouldn’t be texting this woman in his own family time about her personal issues. Even people with the most supportive careers, ie counsellors etc, have strong boundaries re how and when contact takes place, to keep relationships on the levels they have to stay. He needs to start putting some of these boundaries in place to protect himself and his clients, but most of all to protect his relationship with you, his wife.

I think it’s deplorable btw that he pushed and pushed for this woman to come to dinner when you were 3 weeks PP btw . I would also tell him how sad you are in retrospect that you were put in that position.

Don’t play games, just tell him how it is and how you feel. If he really is a good guy in all this, he will move mountains to prove that to you.

Wow I'm actually horrified by women's views on here.
Poor men, unable to see that they are getting too close to women they aren't married to?!
How on earth would they know?
Poor lambs, needing guidance from their wives to make sure they don't have sex with another woman.
Honestly if women truly believe men can't help it, they have no awareness of their behaviour, and they need to be reminded not to have an affair, then why the hell are they married to someone of such low intelligence?
If a man had learning disabilities, I would accept they needed intervention to behave appropriately. For normal, regular husbands?
Nah.
Sorry but he didn't sleepwalk into it at all
^^ This.
God, men are really stupid sometimes aren't they
The belief that lets men get away with everything.
They don't know what they're doing
They don't know they are about to sleep with another woman
They don't know how much to help round the house unless you tell them
They don't know when they should sacrifice their hobbies to co-parent
They don't know that their children need clothing when they leave and start a new family
They don't know that they're raping women because they don't understand if she said yes or not.
It's dangerous thinking. They aren't stupid at all, and know exactly what they're doing. They just enjoy it and play dumb.

When I say sleepwalked I'm not absolving him from blame in the slightest. Of course he made several deliberate choices and I dont for a second think he was manipulated by ow either. He chose it. But I was his first and only serious relationship and he absolutely lacked emotional intelligence /awareness of where it was leading and I suspect this is the case in the OPs case. In general men do not have 5he same sorts of conversations that women do about relationships, feelings etc. I teach and see on a daily basis the bet different ways teenage boys and girls interact and the time they spend dissecting relationships is vastly different. Adult women and men do on the whole therefore have different perceptions. Not better or worse. Just different. If my ex had taken heed and steered clear my kids might not now be doing the EOW crap that comes with divorce

he absolutely lacked emotional intelligence /awareness of where it was leading
Then this is frightening. There is a severe deficit in the way teenage boys are parented. They are entitled and blameless and put themselves first. Who the hell leaves their children just to make their dick feel good? It's utterly disgusting and socially allowed.
If there were consequences for men who let themselves behave in these ways then there would be a chance. But women so often externalise their responsibility and put it down to 'a tough time'; 'he had depression'; 'he was naive'.

The way women just accept this is embarrassing.

I definitely can, and may well yet, talk to him about it all - but then it's me stopping things rather than him stopping things and I might end up wondering if he would have done more if I hadn't intervened

I'd suggest that depends on how you put it. If you restrict it to a few heartfelt comments on how this makes you feel but without implying anything untoward, that surely gives him the opportunity to rein it in by his own initiative, rather than because he's "had to", IYSWIM?

PPs are absolutely right that your instinct's there for a reason and there's no doubting the red flags here, but personally I'd try the above approach first and decide what to do when you see where that leads

I raised it with my dh instantly he started mentioning someone. She was always asking him for help and he maintains he had no idea of her crush on him. He is not a stupid man and has a great deal of self awareness, so I know this is rubbish.

I believe he stopped with the rescue stuff although I have no idea really. Tbh, now it's me that needs rescuing if you like, because the stress and worry it didn't stop is destroying me.

You have a baby and if she was nice she wouldn't have come over at all. I hope she sent flowers after for bothering you. Present for the baby?

He could be falling for it all and she is just using him and he thinks they are friends. Doubt it though, it sounds different. So it must feel difffent to him.

If he texts her whilst he is off it's an issue. Does he delete his texts to her that you notice?

Lots to think about...thank you for the different perspectives.

He definitely is responsible for his actions, and I don't think he can "accidentally" have an affair, emotional or physical, but I do think he's very capable of convincing himself that there is absolutely no issue. He'll genuinely believe he's entirely innocent even if it's obvious he's not to the outside world. If he thought he was doing wrong he wouldn't do it, but he would definitely be capable of believing that he wasn't doing wrong.

He doesn't work set hours, so it's hard to say if he's texting when he's off. 6:30am on a Sunday today was probably not necessary..!

I don't think he's deleting anything. The conversations seem to continue with no weird missing bits .

Maybe it's just me but I wouldn't stand by and observe my H investing time with another woman and coming across as some soppy teenager with a crush to outsiders

"DH, I have noticed X, Y and Z. This stops now or I consider our marriage over". I would not countenance any counter accusations of hormonal madness, snooping or paranoia.

Just...stop or leave.

He'll genuinely believe he's entirely innocent even if it's obvious he's not to the outside world.

Whose outside world?

The outside world of Mumsnet, where strangers get crucified on a daily basis over the handful of written words we have to judge your entire marriage on?

The outside worlds of your friends and family, who have known you both for years?

The outside world of his friends and colleagues, people he works with every day?

The outside world of his mates down at the pub or whatever he does for fun?

Because while you'll encounter a lot of people with the worst possible opinion of your DP and his gender on Mumsnet, it's entirely possible that if you asked the people he worked with about their communication, they'd shrug and say it was completely normal, and ask why are you being so possessive?

The outside world is not a unified whole. It's a collection of individuals and subgroups. Many wouldn't see a problem with your Husband at all.

If you have an issue, flag it with him. Do this in whatever way you think best, from "This woman texts you so much I think she fancies you ha ha ha" right through to Anyfucker's "STOP THIS RIGHT NOW OR FACE DIVORCE" or whatever middle ground you find appropriate.

But don't assume that everyone agrees with your assessment of the situation, and your DP is the only person with the skewed perspective.

It's entirely possible if you came on here and said "I have a work relationship with my male colleague, but my husband is getting twitchy about it, what should I do?" then there would be a load of people saying "Tell your husband to butt out, because if he trusted you then he wouldn't mind who you work with". Which is directly the opposite of what many people are saying on this thread.

If the positions were reversed I'm sure you'd want him to talk to you rather than just get worked up about it while hiding his feelings. Do unto others as you would have them do unto you and all that jazz.

But if I pushed to invite a colleague home when my dh was ill and witnessed that person being dismissive of him, then my dh would have grounds to ask me to back off.

I think people know deep down when their feelings/behaviour is inappropriate. They find ways to justify it to themselves, to deny the truth of it to themselves, as well as to their spouses, otherwise they would then have to think of themselves as not nice people, as the sort of man/woman who is dishonest etc and that kind of takes the shine off it.

I think he's seen her twice this week and not mentioned it

Because he doesn't want you to know. He had mentionitis and now he's going out of his way not to mention her because he knows what he is doing or wants to do is wrong.

I don't understand how some of you have such poor communication with your DHs. I would have given him the message already that my suspicions are up.

"Oh, who are you going to meet at 2pm? Is it Ruth again? Wow, you two seem to be joined at the hip. Why didn't you want me to know that? Gosh, next thing you know there will be a secret phone in the glove compartment in the car. Should I be worried?" Head tilt, big smile.

Seriously, I'd scare the crap out of him.

Anyfucker

What has happened to you? That seemed very tame

He doesn't work set hours, so it's hard to say if he's texting when he's off. 6:30am on a Sunday today was probably not necessary..!

6:30 this morning?! Nooo. That is not on.

Could you suggest he sets himself some office hours. Him being available at all times will only fuel this; setting some hours provides clear boundaries.

I think you need to talk to him about this.

he needs to spend more time with you and his child with his work phone turned off weekends.

I can't imagine texting or receiving texts from work people that early on a Sunday I'd think they were a) had issues with boundaries b) lonely c) might upset my dh.

Next time he wants to know where his clean pants are, say you've been too busy texting a lovely man who relies on you for help and it's just chatting / coffee etc.

This was me 4 years ago - X works in industry that was relatively small and he was one of pioneers with own successful business- lots of people came to him for advice - including a couple who had both lost their jobs and wife was asking him to train her DH up & prepared to pay. Can remember x discussing it with me at the time he was very busy but wanted to help and was trying to find a way to fit it in. Anyway don’t think he did but she was still talking to him for advice etc. I believed she flatered his ego, admired him etc and initially her concern may well have been to better her DH job prospects.

We had a good life lots of expensive holidays nice home kids at private school must have looked pretty attractive to her in rented accommodation with both out of work.

X dm died - massive blow to him as new it would be - opportunity for her to swoop in when he was vulnerable - I thought he was dealing with it as he did most things ie absorb himself in work he wasn’t he was talking to her about it - he ended up giving her a job!

Well he is with Ow now - I have been through hell - extremely acrimonious divorce where I have been the bitter crazy ex wife - had my suspicions but believed he would not do this. By the time I questioned him it was too late - funnily enough it was this time of year too xmas approaching. In the end I think he went with ow as his business reputation meant more to him - easier to pass me off as a nutter than admit he screwed up

Think he thought he could also keep kids onside by pretending there was no OW - he tried this - but failed - his relationship with his Dd is never going to be as it was!

Ask him outright now - don’t mince your words - don’t be scared of being seen as crazy - this is you wanting to not believe what your gut is telling you - id even go as far as see a solicitor and find out where you stand.

My x had a six month head start on me - enough time to get a game plan together and I got screwed - I’m still picking up the pieces 4 years down the line.

I was also going to suggest you start dropping a male,s name into conversation - he may have convinced himself he is doing nothing wrong - maybe if he thought your head was being turned it may give him a jolt!

Good luck

I would fire a shot over his bow and tell him that you have become aware that his relationship with X is different to his other mentees and before he gets into an emotional or physical relationship with her he should think about what he will lose as either would be totally unacceptable to you and would be the end. End of discussion.

Green beret - hope you are okay.

I totally get why you want to stand back and see where it goes.

You want to know who you are married to, you don’t want to be married to someone who has to be policed into behaving.

I had a similar issue with a close friend. I could have stepped in and highlighted what she had to lose, but I wanted to know who she was, what choices she would make without my intervention.

He may be kidding himself about the extent of the crush and it’s perceptibility. So telling him you’ve noticed might yank him into the light of day.

@SilkenTofu I must be getting old

greenberet how awful, I hope things improve for you soon.

Dang sister,you've been to hell and back.
I'm so sorry😢💔

But I think your advice is smart.
Thanks for sharing your wisdom with us, even though you are still "recovering" after these last few years.

I think having been there a discussion in order and say it’s bothering you, I think his reaction will tell you what you need to know. I had exactly the same many years ago with someone who worked with us occasionally and also lived across the road, 21 year old, H was 40, , d with a lot of texting that was being deleted but I noticed it on bills, then engineering situations to ‘pop over’ , I never got to the bottom of it at the time and she moved away a few years later, 11 years after I found a load of stuff he had written about her, and then recorded it as songs, (all done in our house whilst I was at work) clearly it was a crush that went way way too far . Not sure if it’s something I will ever quite get over. I think this is what this is OP, I think it’s a crush , maybe one sided, maybe not, but nip it in the bud now if you can, if you can’t and he isn’t willing then better at least to know where you stand. .

That's utterly awful crap.
I couldn't get over that either. Does he know you found them?

This reminds me very much of another thread from some months back where the OP was informed by a friend who worked where her husband did that he was spending lots of time with a co worker - all with innocent explanations but where he seemed to be getting more emotionally dependent than he should. She didn't want to intervene either but all the standing back and letting him make his own choices didn't change his behaviour. Think she stopped posting in the end as people kept saying 'you need to step in' and she didn't want to. It does seem that in these situations men will often deny flat out there's any problem until it's too late. More direct action is worth considering.

I think I'm going to mention it. Not sure whether to go lighthearted "watch it, mate!" Or more serious in depth about how I'm feeling etc... but I don't really want to sit around waiting to see how much he contacts her and mentions her etc. It would drive me mad.

He's away with work from this evening til later in the week, so I think I'll wait til he's back rather than risk him leaving on a sour note if it causes any strife...

Thanks again for any advice! And sorry for those who've been in this situation :(