If your husband might maybe possibly slightly be getting too close to someone...

[DandyScandi]

This feels ridiculous.

I am beginning to suspect my husband is getting closer to a friend/person he met whilst working (think "client" but not really). But in a way that I can't possibly question without feeling like a crazy wife! As in - there is nothing to suggest anything untoward, other than the fact I know my husband...

He always talks about who he has had meetings with and what his day has looked like (isn't office based,so it's a topic of general chat in our household, who he's met and where he's been etc) - but he's started being quite evasive in offering details. When he is evasive and I've questioned him more, it's been this woman that he's meeting. But his evasiveness is totally not the kind I could call him out on, as it's so "natural". Like he'll say "then i have a meeting with someone at 2pm before going to meet Jack to debrief". So it's totally normal! But he'd usually say "I'm meeting Ruth at 2pm" or "I'm meeting a person from X business at 2pm"

And he looks a little more...forced?! when he mentions he's meeting her. Like he's trying to look normal about it. But maybe he just is normal and I'm reading into that?!

And (we freely swap phones and use each others messaging apps etc, so he's not trying to hide stuff as he knows I'll likely see chats etc) he messages her A LOT. More than any other "client"/ friend. But none of the messages are anything suspicious. But just quite frequent (for a guy who rarely replies to my messages!).

She's interested in his line of work, and he's offering her advice and support in that, which is also normal for his business - there are several people he's doing this for, but it seems different with her. But maybe I'm paranoid?

And finally, she confides quite a lot in him - but in a general chat kind of way, I think. So it can be quite personal, but not more than you would be with any friend. I think it's because the lines are blurred in his work between work and friendships - everyone ends up quite chummy and socialise a lot etc... clients and staff and other work connections etc. I'd feel more comfortable if she was clearly in the "work" category, but she seems to creep more and more into "friend I don't mention meeting" category. But he wouldn't hide it if I asked directly... and he's invited her to our home, and I know he's occasionally (but not often) mentioned me to her in messages (so she knows I exist!)...

If it makes a difference, she's VERY similar in looks and personality to his ex. And I'm very different to them (different race and different cultural background, so quite different!).

Do I sit back and watch quietly to see, so I don't come across as crazy?!

Do I ask him why he avoids telling me he's meeting her?

Do I just outright say "so do you have a crush on X or what?!"

Or what do I say or do? Just leave it seems the least insane to me, but I hate that it could become something more and I might have been able to stop it by mentioning it to him now. Or will it become something anyway, with someone else if not her, if that's the way he is...? I don't think he is, but if I've learnt anything on mumsnet, it's that we can't be as certain about men as we thought we could.

I feel ridiculous contemplating saying anything to him based purely on my hunch. But when is gut feeling actually worth acting on and when should it be ignored?

Gah! Thanks for any advice!

steak - yup. To him it would be physical=affair.

cartoon - in a way it's his job to be "used". Or partly his job. He is meant to help people progress and then wave them on their way once they've got what they need from him, so in that sense it wouldn't benefit her to "use" him emotionally to get what she wants from a business point of view. She could get the business side without the friendship and emotional side. (I'm trying to be vague about what he does as it's a bit niche! It probably sounds totally weird, but it is a legitimate job and I have no issue with it other than with this one person!)

I haven’t read the whole thread but, in a nutshell, I think he has a crush on her.

Keep an eye on the messages only because it sounds like the script often mentioned here on Mumsnet. Talking about her a lot but hiding that he meets her. Don't confront him at this stage or it could all be hidden from you. If the messages start getting too much, they've met up when they don't really have to then confront him and tell him you're not okay with it. If he cares about you he will give it up. Hopefully it will not get to that.

How difficult however he is not being professional by allowing her to confide in him re her personal life. It's not his job unless he is a life coach but even then it would be during seasons not 24/7 support presumably. She would normally reach out to her friends if she has broken up with her boyfriend, surely.

If you sit back and watch it will be very painful for you, I think.

She has already been for dinner twice? Sounds awkward to say the least. Perhaps you could ask your dh to step away from her now? As if you or him have a disaster in your lives will he go to you and if you need him will he be there 100% or texting her on a Friday night?

My dh rather unfortunately did this. She was always texting him for help, telling him how she looked up / admire him etc. He was thrilled and mentioned her all the time.

He's not a life coach, no. Though it's not totally unusual for him or his colleagues to have people bring personal problems to them, but in a "this might be something affecting my work" kind of way...as I say, it's an odd kind of job he does!

And it would be totally normal to have work related people round for meals, and we often have groups over, but he seems particularly keen to have her. Others he may suggest once or twice and if it's convenient then we'd invite them - for her he'll keep looking for alternative dates if none suit until we find something (which was, on the last occasion, when I had a 3 week old and was exhausted and recovering from a bad birth and infected episiotomy, but he thought it important to have her round??!! I wouldn't agree to it again, in hindsight! Must've been the drugs making me agree !)

It sounds worse the more I write :(

But honestly all the things are quite "small" and normal for his work, so I could still easily be accused of being crazy or unnecessarily jealous.

Does increased affection mean anything? The last 3-4 days he's been more affectionate - kissing me before he goes out and when he gets home. Not entirely out of character, but not something we've routinely done. Maybe it's just another thing I'm noticing through my insecure eyes though and really it's nothing?

I'm feeling worse about this as I write it all down :( it seems more obvious all written in one place.

I'm up with the baby, hence the odd time for being awake! It's not the stress of the situation keeping me up!

Major life event with new baby, means you are both vulnerable.
New Dads feel displaced as babies needs come before theirs, quite rightly. A time when heads can get turned if he is feeling vulnerable and she is offering an ear to listen.
Sounds like a crush so call him on it.

You are vulnerable as well with a new baby, maybe the extra affection is because he has noticed this. 💐

What are all these jobs I read about on here that require a man to develop Saviour Syndrome towards a female colleague?

I don't understand why you can't ask questions OP - this man is your Husband. Why can't you talk to him?

I do think your gut feeling is right but hopefully he will come to his senses.

If he doesn't - I hope she is using him to advance her career and will then serve him afterwards.

The meal with the infected episiotomy sounds horrific. I’ve had that and no way I would have had anyone round for dinner.
You can speak to him about this situation. You are not a ‘crazy jealous wife’. Don’t negate your feelings. This is a huge thing to you now. You can speak to him and say how this situation is making you feel. If he cares about your feelings he will step away from this woman. What matters more to him? His wife and child or some woman at work?

Op,are you new to mumsnet ? Because if so, on here the man is always cheating or about to cheat.

The honest truth is there is nothing to suggest he is anything other than friends with this woman, you can even read his texts with her. Possibly he doesn't mention her name as he can see a reaction in you, a jealousy there. But past that from what you've described his behaviour sounds normal for him. He's friendly with her and doing his job.

There is nothing to stress about and you sound like you have a good marriage. Enjoy your baby.

Do you want to cut this off before it happens properly, @DandyScandi ?

Or do you want to wait to see what your guy is ACTUALLY capable of?

If the first, will you always wonder if, given time, he would have had an actual affair - and will that wondering eat away at you and at the relationship?

If the second, can you wait, can you bide your time? Can you give him the space to have an affair (if that's what he will do) and how long can you do this for?

bluntness not new, just regular name changer ;) but yes, the rational me says there is nothing to suggest anything is going on. EXCEPT his being evasive and the sheer number of messages. As in, he may message someone else once or twice a week - but with her it's several times a day. But all relatively "work" related.

mistress yup, he is actually a total "saviour" type. I've said to him before that he runs the risk of leading people on and them thinking he's interested in them in a way that is beyond the norm for work, but he doesn't see it. He thinks he's just doing his job. But this time it's really much more than it has been in the past. And slightly more secretive. And I can definitely talk to him. Just trying to figure out whether now is the right time to. If it's innocent then great, if it's not then I kinda want to know for sure, as it could be either right now.

Being able to read messages freely is definitely reassuring, but also not... Because he's not hiding them, but they are definitely different (in frequency and length) to other messages. So I think he isn't seeing it as anything wrong yet. Or maybe he's starting to which is why he's started avoiding telling me he's meeting her. He's not very perceptive of emotions in general, so I'd be surprised if he's picked up any previous reaction from me and that's what causing him to not mention meeting her. Maybe though.

And as I say, I definitely can, and may well yet, talk to him about it all - but then it's me stopping things rather than him stopping things and I might end up wondering if he would have done more if I hadn't intervened.

I wouldn't give him space to have an affair in the sense that I have no plan to change our relationship (I wouldn't stop being loving/intimate etc to see if I could push him into it), so I definitely don't want to MAKE it happen, but if he would anyway, even with things being OK with our relationship, then I almost want to know that. That's my quandary. But I in no way want to drive him towards her. I won't be proactive in pushing him away.

He's got a period of annual leave coming up - I think if he keeps messaging her then then I'll say something.

Thanks for all the advice :)

"for her he'll keep looking for alternative dates if none suit until we find something (which was, on the last occasion, when I had a 3 week old and was exhausted and recovering from a bad birth and infected episiotomy, but he thought it important to have her round??!!"

This is awful. You'd literally just given birth to his baby and he insisted on inviting his work crush over for dinner

It's obvious that he has a crush on her, I think you should point that out, if he accuses you of being crazy or jealous tell him that's a classic defensive reaction, and do what you suggested - ask him to hand her over to a colleague and COOL IT.

I think all the signs are there, you should trust your instincts, and personally I would have to say something. I couldn't bear to watch and wait.

Personalli I think you should ask him. Marriage is about communication. Besides you have a baby and this is worrying you - seek reassurance from him. Not unreasonable to do that.

Suggest telling him directly you are uncomfortable about his behaviour in relation to this woman, which you have noticed is different from his usual, and are concerned that he may be behaving in ways that could risk him being unprofessional and disrespectful of you at best, or an affair.

Don’t need to justify yourself or get into debates about it.

He can then decide what to do. If he is going to have an emotional or physical affair he may well do anyway, but he won’t as easily be able to pretend he didn’t “see it coming”.

I would say something. Don't test him. I honestly believe that some people who cheat almost sleepwalk into it. I know that there are plenty for whom cheating is just what they do. But I think some people given the right situation could find themselves cheating without actually planning to. Especially if they are a bit lacking in their emotional awareness. If your husband is meeting with her for lunch or coffee and from her messages she's trying to bring in her personal life I can imagine him ending up with the woman sobbing on him and asking for a hug. Obviously at that point he should realise to say no and leave but I think a lot wouldn't.

Affairs can come about by crossing boundaries and the boundaries sometimes need reinforcing or just a reminder of their existence.

I agree with Godolphian. Don't test him. Honestly, being the sort of person who gives a woman the wrong signals and gets into an EA situation almost without meaning to, which might in the end become physical, but who stops himself because his wife gives him a quiet heads up, is NOT in the same league as someone who cheats. Not in my book anyway.

I know what you are saying re her not engaging with you at dinner and being dismissive, probably thinking of you as “wifey”. Please don’t invite her to your home again or, if you must, do so when you are not unwell and in pain and are at your best. Tell your DP you have no intention of entertaining whilst your baby is young. Be fair, it’s you, not him, who is up in the night
and missing out on sleep. With regard to little Miss Needy start taking the piss out of her and her efforts to engage with your DH.

My ex did this. Total saviour syndrome for someone he met via a hobby. She was a struggling single mum with depression. We had two kids, worked, the usual juggling act and I am a pretty capable, coping type. He kept on about her and I did actually say I thought boundaries were being crossed. She certainly sent him messages that were unashamed flirting. He asked my advice, which I gave to reduce or cease all contact. His sister told him the same thing but he didn't. He actually then admitted to me he had developed feelings for her and asked for my help! Again I told him, in sterner terms he had to now cut contact. I had to go away for a week with work. Guess what happened in my absence? As a PP said. I do think he kind of sleepwalked into it. I rumbled him immediately on my return. He panicked, chose her and 5 years later is a crap absent father. I don't think he set out to do it but that's how it played out. OP I do think you should talk to him frankly. Oh and mine and ex's sex life improved dramatically just before he left. It's cLled hysterical bonding. I'm not saying your DH is a cheating bastard or planning to be one but I would be concerned.

My Dh works in a similar situation to yours. It his job to mentor people and make them better at their jobs. He has worked with a lot of women, mainly young and attractive. I’ve never had any issues with a single one until late last year.
We have our own business and have access to each other’s emails. I noticed email with this particular young women were much more frequent and longer than normal and a bit more personal. At first I just kept an eye but then gave him a bit of a “you need to watch yourself there” chat. She was the one who was always pushing the personal stuff but he responded.
I told him I thought she was crossing a line, he didn’t think there was a problem, he just felt he was going his job.
We then had to go away for a month for work and she asked if she could come and stay. Dh said yes and it was all planned. At the last minute she asked who he was with him, when he told her I was there, she said she wasn’t coming! Again I pointed out she was after him and he still didn’t really get it!
When I put it in the context of “what if my work college wanted to come and stay with me, but changed his mind when he knew you were there”, he finally understood my concerns.

I do think you should talk to him, if only to put your mind at rest but also so he’s in no doubt that you think he’s crossing a line and are very aware of the situation.

I think you need to tell him how you feel and why. Don't have her in your home again - that won't deter her or him if they are getting into dangerous territory.
I think instincts exist for a reason and on a marriage it is perfectly acceptable to ask a spouse to distance themselves from a work colleague if you think there is a potential threat to your marriage. He has already shown that he can be wuite srlfish with regard to her - if he won't back off he is telling you clearly where his priorities lie and they aren't with you.
Ultimately you have to trust that he does it and doesn't just become more secretive. But if he does, then you will have your answer.

I always think it's better to know than not.

Huge
Sorry but he didn't sleepwalk into it at all. He might have been sleepwalking at first, but he was aware enough of the potential when he asked you and his sister for advice. You spoke to him TWICE and he still went ahead and had the affair. So he was very definitely wide awake.

Lizzie
God, men are really stupid sometimes aren't they?! 🤦🏻‍♀️

"Wait and see if he cheats" sounds like game playing to me. I wouldn't do that at all. If he does cheat, your relationship is fucked. If he doesn't cheat, you have to put up with weeks or months of paranoia and distrust, which makes you feel like shit, and might even cause further problems with your relationship and even drive him further away from you.

If you have concerns, voice them. Even preface it with "This might sound crazy, but..." if you want to. But if he loves and respects you (and nothing you've said indicates otherwise) then he'll listen to everything you've got to say, and then he'll moderate how he talks about her/to her. Point out the recent child etc and how it affects you and him, and each others feelings and moods. E.g you feel vulnerable to other women being more attractive, maybe he feels overwhelmed or replaced in your priorities etc etc.

Also note that a lot of us aren't even aware of the meaning behind "emotional affair". It's not something most men get taught by anyone, we find out about them through partners or female relatives. What you perceive to be an emotional affair he might simply perceive as a good friendship. Also note that for it to be an emotional affair he needs to have stopped communicating or sharing his feelings with you in favour of another woman. Doesn't sound like he's stopped talking to you so far.

I'd have a serious conversation with him about the dinner invitation.You were three weeks post partum and in pain and his focus should have been entirely on you. Instead he prioritised a woman who came to your house, accepted your hospitality and was rude to you.

I'd say it's part of a pattern of behaviour around this woman that you've noticed and which makes you uncomfortable, and that you want her to be transferred to another manager. If he tries to argue, point out that he is confirming she is his priority not you.

If he loves you his concern should be putting your mind at ease even if he feels he's doing nothing wrong. Why would he knowingly pursue a relationship that upsets his wife, especially in the unsettling months after having a baby?