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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Why do so many women marry or partner up with men that are not thoughtful and not great at showing emotion

129 replies

LardLizard · 16/11/2018 22:30

It’s puzzling me

So many men that don’t seem to be great
Don’t do there share
Aren’t able to express emotion

OP posts:
ForalltheSaints · 19/11/2018 21:21

There will be some couples you meet where you can almost immediately see why they are together, and others where you are mystified. I find it a mystery why any woman likes Russell Brand or Boris Johnson, but there are some who do.

Worrynot1 · 20/11/2018 07:43

Because women are bought up on fairy tales, that they are a prize or the princess. Men must be at their beck and call. Utter nonsense.

MargoLovebutter · 20/11/2018 09:34

Could be that the role models for women as they grew up were men that were not thoughtful or good at showing emotion and didn't do their share in the household.

Could be that there has traditionally been a cultural expectation in the UK that men didn't need to be thoughtful or good at showing emotion or do their share in the household.

Could be that some women have been raised to be pleasers and are unable to articulate what they are looking for and so accept less than they should.

Could be that some women have poor boundaries and tolerate poor behaviour from their partner.

Could be that some women have low self-esteem and don't think they are worthy of more than someone emotionally stunted and mean.

Could be that some of these men are full out narcissists and that the women didn't twig until it was too late and they are staying together because of the children.

..... and probably loads of other reasons, none of them good!

ConfusedWife1234 · 20/11/2018 10:18

Haven‘t read anything but the first post but maybe because they have other strong points.
Maybe they are strong, protective, good providers.

yetmorecrap · 20/11/2018 11:39

People like Russell brand and Boris attract women because of power and wealth and charisma, not necessarily because of their amazing personalities, has always been the case. Some women are just ‘drawn’ to those qualities, others are just plain old fashioned gold diggers!

BedHair · 20/11/2018 13:14

Could be that the role models for women as they grew up were men that were not thoughtful or good at showing emotion and didn't do their share in the household.

Could be that there has traditionally been a cultural expectation in the UK that men didn't need to be thoughtful or good at showing emotion or do their share in the household.

This is my mother. Not UK, but it's not unique to here, obviously. She married my father (whom I realised well into adulthood when another family member was diagnosed is on the autistic spectrum) at nineteen, having been brought up in a very traditional rural society to think that the best a woman could hope for was marriage, and that the best husband she could hope for was a provider who was not a drinker. She grew up in a world of wordless, emotionally-stunted men who provided what little money there was coming in, and whose word was law in the house, got the lion's share of the best food, the first bathwater, could not be sexually gainsaid. and who virtually never talked, other than about work or sport to other men, certainly not to their wives.

She is entirely baffled and not entirely approving at my four degrees and professional career, and the fact that I'm not a people pleaser, as well as by my husband, who likes to talk, and does all the cooking and food shopping, and, at the moment, the lion's share of the childcare and laundry.

I've come to understand that my refusal to settle for what she settled for makes her unconsciously angry and resentful.

Shriek · 20/11/2018 13:37

Mmmm lots of social grooming for girls..and boys.
Boris, eerghh! No. Russell brand, yes, because he's intelligent and quick, not because of [finding out] what he's done and is like in personal relationships.

You cannot always tell how much of what new bfs are lies. With him, he has massive issues, psychologically. No excuses he's treated women like shite. Many do lie, a lot, and I don't think women should blame themselves for being lied to.

There definitely has been a culture of treat 'em mean, keep 'em keen; continually dangling a carrot. At the same time as women being called slag, slappers, sluts for having sex, whilst men were accepted, nay, applauded, for the same behaviour. There are still many traces of this today.

I am hoping for better for the following generations now!

Spaghettijumper · 20/11/2018 13:45

I've come to understand that my refusal to settle for what she settled for makes her unconsciously angry and resentful.

I think that's an important insight @BedHair. I agree with a lot of what's been said around women settling, stereotypes etc. But I also think that there is an undercurrent of women unintentionally policing the choices of their daughters and their friends, subtly discouraging them from making better choices than they did. Both my mother and my MIL are married to men who are ridiculous failures of human beings - my father is a silent recluse who barely worked, my FIL is an angry manchild. Both of of them, down through the years, have tried to subtly push me into the role of dutiful wife, tending to DH's needs, never looking after my own needs. I think that's partly because they think that's how relationships work but it's also partly because if they see DH and I having a happy, equal, loving, fun marriage they start thinking 'why did I settle for this misery?' They have to believe that men are just like that, that there was no other choice - seeing that things could have been different is just too painful at this stage in their lives, when it's really too late. I feel for them. I have resisted their attempts to make me lie down and accept my doormat status but it wasn't easy and there must be many other women who do end up settling because that's what their mother (or both of their parents) expect.

BedHair · 20/11/2018 13:56

I think that's partly because they think that's how relationships work but it's also partly because if they see DH and I having a happy, equal, loving, fun marriage they start thinking 'why did I settle for this misery?' They have to believe that men are just like that, that there was no other choice - seeing that things could have been different is just too painful at this stage in their lives, when it's really too late. I feel for them. I have resisted their attempts to make me lie down and accept my doormat status but it wasn't easy and there must be many other women who do end up settling because that's what their mother (or both of their parents) expect.

Spot on, Spaghetti. My sisters and I have all struggled with our mother's low expectations for us, and the fact that she (entirely unconsciously -- she would say she wants the best for us) is much more interested in us when we're unhappy or low, and dealing with a problem. Her worst insult is that someone (usually female) 'thinks a lot of themselves', but I only realised as an adult that she means confident women with obviously healthy self-esteem.

Spaghettijumper · 20/11/2018 14:00

I suppose we have to bear in mind @BedHair that there was a time not very long ago when marriage was literally the only way a woman could participate fully in adult life - not securing a man was equal to not securing a job - it meant difficult at the very least and often disaster. Women had to ensure they were a suitable for marriage, which basically meant being whatever men wanted them be. Women who had to much of a mind of their own were seen a breaking the rules, women who wouldn't secure a man. It'll take a long time for that one to die I think.

Shriek · 20/11/2018 14:04

How inspirational @bedhair you have turned things on their metaphorical head for your DM no wonder at confusion, resentment, anger even.

Shriek · 20/11/2018 14:10

Nobody likes a know-it-all, is the kind of shit that my dc have to hear from their 'f'. Meantime, I have to continually counter that crap with how important it is to acknowledge and celebrate your successes, female particularly in patriarchal society, but also for male inner confidence that they don't either have to conform to some complete utter shite of what a 'man' [masculine stereotypical] is, or 'should be'

Shriek · 20/11/2018 14:13

Masculine words like, lions share, and female animals, bitches, it all needs challenging, and I was glad to see advertising being challenged for its stereotypical role modelling, subliminally asserted.

BedHair · 20/11/2018 14:16

Agreed, Spaghetti. I love my mother, we talk often, and the deprivation of her early life in particular saddens me. I have a classic dutiful eldest daughter's sense of responsibility for my parents' happiness, which can be very complicated, and obviously I'm just venting on here because it's not something I could ever say to either of them. I feel very protective towards them both.

@Shriek, what a lovely thing to say. It's not that straightforward, and I have no real idea how I managed it. Some deeply-buried inner stubbornness! The one thing I'm proud of is that my younger sisters had an easier time because I'd insisted on finishing school and applying for university, although no one in the family had ever done that.

Roomba · 20/11/2018 14:17

Often you have no idea what a man's reaction to and behaviour during pregnancy, birth and the baby days will be - not until they actually happen. Many, many women have been given the impression that their partners are the thoughtful, caring type - only to discover their misogyny and neglectfulness when they have to deal with big life changes or stressful situations. Domestic violence often begins during pregnancy, as does controlling behaviour. I imagine it's the same for men who pretend they give a toss to reel women in, then don't bother to put the effort in when it is truly needed.

My ex is great at showing emotion - too much so, imo - but all of his emotions are about himself, not how others are feeling. If someone is suffering, that makes him stressed, therefore he is the wronged one who must be consoled.

Shriek · 20/11/2018 14:20

You watch that stubbornness *bedhair^ ...not an attractive quality in a female, dontcha know??!!! Grin

Shriek · 20/11/2018 14:27

Roomba dv is recognised as being particularly prevalent around increase of or threat to control; being pregnant having newborn, ebf, are all something else taking away the attention on the abuser, perceived NY him as losing control, hence lots of attacks on pregnant women, kicks to stomach etc, and the notsoviolent ones, other manipulations and psychological cruelty, infidelity, also marriage laws for women supported men, until just pre-millenium rape was still legal in marriage. We have not come so far in so many ways. We are still trying and getting ideas above our station !

TheWiseWomansFear · 20/11/2018 14:33

Women are afraid of ending up alone, particularly in their 20s and 30s when having children is a part of this and all their friends are doing it. I find women who are 40+ tend to have higher standards

richdeniro · 20/11/2018 14:42

Women are afraid of ending up alone, particularly in their 20s and 30s when having children is a part of this and all their friends are doing it. I find women who are 40+ tend to have higher standards

Women who are 40+ seem to throw themselves at me. I don't mean to write that with any arrogance. I seem to be the perfect guy for them and as someone wrote previously, I am their second husband material. The type of guy that they are looking for.

The problem is I think I want to go on a journey with someone, have children, travel, buy a place together and do all that kind of thing. But no one under the age of 40 seems to be interested. I constantly get the 'sorry no chemistry/spark' the next day after any dates or get rejected and then see them go for the guy that you know is not a particularly nice person or a player.

lifebegins50 · 20/11/2018 14:47

The incidence of personality disorders in the general population is thought to be higher than eating disorders yet it is widely unknown.

Ex fits the criteria of a corporate psysopath and these traits only become clear when power shifts in a relationship. I accept I was very naive to such traits as had been conditioned to always give everyone the benefit of the doubt. To be fair this was a message to all my siblings not just daughters..I suspect I have a more empathic personality which is why I was less sceptical. I am teaching my dc to be empathic but also aware of toxic people.

Ex is outwardly charming and very plausible and only those in an intimate relationship see the other side.I can see the red flags now but only in hindsight!

Aquilla · 20/11/2018 14:51

Because men are not women and marriage is a partnership to make a perfectly imperfect whole?

Kemer2018 · 20/11/2018 14:52

The example set by my Dad was shit.
The guy I'm with now is by far the best of an absolutely shitty bunch of no marks.
He does not show emotion or deal with others showing their emotions. To survive I've become bricked up.

spellinghell · 20/11/2018 20:59

I think we see what we want to see...

Brel · 20/11/2018 21:50

En mariage, il trompe qui peut. That said, you can still avoid a lot of unwanted traits if you’re cautious during the dating process. If you behave in an overly accommodating manner during the early stages, you can hardly be surprised that the other party doesn’t do his share later on. Quite frequent this. Oh and your expectations have to be realistic, it’s bizarre to expect grand emotional gestures from a certain age. I’ve done things when I was younger that I wouldn’t be doing now.

You don’t have to be an ‘alpha’ male, the problem lies somewhere else. ‘Alpha’ males are quite fun though; when they stare each other down for dominance of the bar etc… Quality spectacle for all involved.

LardLizard · 22/11/2018 12:44

Some really interesting ideas and thoughts on this thread
I suppose the fact woman couldn’t get mortgages on there own even if that worked and the law only fairly recently made it illegal to rape a wife
Probably means a lot of this is so deeply ingrained people don’t see it happening

I also think once you have children it’s a massive game changer as there just much more workload
THen you probably have the woman in maternity leave

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