13 year old won't go to bed

[Cobblersandhogwash]

He just refuses. He's not small.

I'll find him on the floor of his bedroom at 11pm doing random homework or faffing about. Refuses to go to bed and turn off the light.

Should I just leave him to it? He's always been pretty uncooperative and objectionable. I'm so tired of every sodding thing being a source of conflict opportunity for him.

Leave him to it. Just make sure he's up to go to school.

I use to take myself to bed when I was his age. I had to walk to school in the morning so I learnt how to get ready in 10 minutes and walk really fast so I was there before the second bell.

Does he get up ok? Is he tired?

I have one of these (slightly older - 14). I take her phone off her at 9.30 and leave her to it. So long as I can go to sleep at 10PM for the 5.30 alarm, I can live with it. She hates getting up in the morning, though, and get cross with me for stripping the covers off her bed in order to shift her for school. The older ones are instructed to be Very Quiet if they feel the need to roam around at night.

I would take away phone / Internet but otherwise leave him to it. After a few days of being exhausted they tend to self regulate.

If room in your house permits I would promote "sleep hygiene" by encouraging him not to use his bedroom for activities other than sleeping.

I'd leave him. My 14 yrs old dd has been putting herself to be when she's tired for more than a year now. Says goodnight and goes upstairs about 9 - 9.30 ish and then goes to sleep herself when she's tired. I hated being told when to go to sleep when I was a teenager and it's good to get them in the habit of being responsible for themselves.

Okay. I will leave him to it then. Take away his electronic devices and just let him decide for himself.

He looks dreadful though. Ashen faced and dark circles under his eyes.

So this is what he's done tonight because I took away his phone.

Pulled out a light fitting.

Kicked in his bedroom door.

Threw a small magnet that ricocheted and hit me on the forehead. That injury wasn't intentional, granted.

Bloody hell OP. I'd be putting the devices in the bin. Seriously. Hope you are ok.

OP, that's awful. I hope you are ok.

I had a phrase in my head when mine were younger: "I don't negotiate with terrorists". I am not sure this will help, but your DS needs you to regulate him, however horrible it is now.

PS My DC1 would have done the same.

Bloody teenage lads that’s the kind of thing my lad would have done at that age , makes you mad doesn’t it ! Maybe let him have the phone later at the weekend? But tomorrow he needs to sort out the DIY then he can have his phone back.

Jesus OP, that's a pretty different issue than him not going to bed when he's told. Does he react like this in other circumstances?

He's not getting his phone back after such wilful destruction. He will have to do a lot to earn back his phone and tablet.

He has anger issues. Has had since he was 4. Everything from asking him to clean his teeth, get dressed for school to the dreaded asking him to do his homework.

Had enough. He's been to private counselling, CAMHS counselling. They couldn't find a problem.

He's going to be a big lad soon.

I think you would have got pretty different responses to the issue of him not going to bed on time if you'd mentioned his history of anger and MH issues.

I think you need to push for further CAMHS intervention. Are you in contact with his school about his behaviour?

My DS who, as mentioned, would have done the same, has high-functioning AS.

I think he has ODD.

CAMHS will do nothing more. I can push and push.

He's amazing at school. Reserved but hard working. Obedient. Academically great.

If he has a source of cash (birthdays, Christmas, paper round etc) then he should be paying that over until the costs are covered for the replacement door and light fitting, as well as having his devices removed for a while.

He’s got to learn that there are consequences for damaging property he’s not paid for. He can clearly control his anger to the extent that he didn’t damage anything in his room which he values.

OP that sounds exactly like my DD who is 8

Makes a conflict out if everything even if you ask her to do something she wants

Bedtime is a nightmare. Fights sleep and being tired doesn't translate into going to bed

Violent reactions and anger issues

An angel in school. Excellent behaviour, model pupil

Incentives and loss of privileges have no effect.

I am going to placemark and see if anyone can help

Is he in to sport at all op? SN issues aside, it sounds like he has a lot of excess energy. Maybe he could benefit from joining a football or rugby team (to address the sleeping issue specifically I mean)? Obviously, the anger is a different more complex issue. Good luck op.

Sounds like teenage hormones on top of an anger problem. DC1 was horrible , really horrible throughout yr9. Moody, aggressive, argumentative, violent- so many holes in the walls, bedroom door pulled off hinges. It did pass thank God but I haven't fixed any of the damage. I don't know how to and have no money to pay for the work to be done.
Given CAMHS aren't interested, would he continue with the private counselling?
Or second the idea of rugby- or some other way to channel the physical excesses- martial arts/ boxing/ gym. My son claimed part of it was needing to feel pain - it was preferable to feeling numb or explosively angry.
Or some kinds of cadets type thing?? e.g fire cadets who will have some good male role models who have their moods under control

He doesn't like rugby or football.

He does karate, loves skiing and has to do sport at school.

He is tired. School is very demanding.

He's been crying and apologising. So he's slept in my bed again. I have hugged him. Told him we love him. That his behaviour is unacceptable. That he will not play on the Xbox for the foreseeable future.

But he will do it again and again. This is the second door he's smashed. And he has trashed his room a couple of times too.

If I had lots of money, I'd send him to a child psychiatrist. Or whatever the correct terminology is.

It's nice that you have hugged him. I don't suppose he can control his moods at the moment and no one would choose to feel like that or act like that on purpose . I never punished my son for his outbursts- I told him how nasty and frightening it was for me and his younger brother. But i never punished him. I was a horrible teenager myself but went all introverted rather than angry. It was a god awful time. I wish somebody had hugged me in my time of need!!!
I sort of laugh about it with DS- 3 years on. We 'reminisce' about how nasty he was but I tell him that I know it wasn't his personality or who he was, it truly was his hormones. I got weights for him at home- if he felt the sap rising, so to speak, he'd often do a big workout to try and get the aggression out.

I suggest you try the SN boards here and maybe try the NAS helpline (you don't need a diagnosis to use them) another possible source of help is the Charity "Young Minds".

There was a bit on Victoria Derbyshire about "I'm sad when I hurt Mum", which might help you feel less alone.

Advice from people not in this situation probably won't help.

Think you handled it well.

He is remorseful, that is good.

Continue demanding the phone back at 9pm and then see what you both can do to fix the damage, may be suggest he pays for it in installments.

Apparently if you have trouble at home and want to nip it in the bud you can ask a policeman to come and give him a friendly chat. I would do it if this is true.

Have you heard of NVR non violent resistance? Might be worth looking into