13 year old won't go to bed

[Cobblersandhogwash]

He just refuses. He's not small.

I'll find him on the floor of his bedroom at 11pm doing random homework or faffing about. Refuses to go to bed and turn off the light.

Should I just leave him to it? He's always been pretty uncooperative and objectionable. I'm so tired of every sodding thing being a source of conflict opportunity for him.

I have been through this - the important bit is the through it.

My son was like this 12-14......punched doors, walls etc. Again wonderful boy at school, loads of friends etc. He went though a v rapid puberty.

I wish I had let him be. I provoked and escalated the situation - I was triggered to become quite authorative and controlling - wrong response.

If I had my time again I would pick my battles and be much more compassionate and less combative. Keep up all the supportive external environment stuff but pick your battles.

I have had therapy since - I am now less intense, a much better parent and my relationships with my own children is much better. I found it useful to examine my own upbringing and see how I sprung into a dysfunctional approach to discipline when tempers rose.

I think I would go to the GP and ask for help. If CAMHs won’t help you need some counselling/ mentoring for him. My DS is like this, he has been diagnosed with adhd though and so he is getting some help from CAMHs. You need help with these situations

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non_Violent_Resistance_(psychological_intervention)

niceupthedance - thanks for the NVR mention - never heard of it - just read this link. Amazing - wish I had known this approach. OP its really all about how you and your family respond and behave when a child is being defiant - the steps are listed in the link. You are doing quite a few of them - might be useful to have a clear proven strategy to stick with and see you though.

@another20, how old is your boy now? What did you find made the change in him?

Look up PDA op. I have 2 asd dcs and find their strategies helpful, along with NVR.

@squeegle he is 19 now - was through this black period in about 2 years by 14. On reflection I think it was caused by hormones (rapid puberty), stress in our marriage and my escalating to authority mode. No idea which was the biggest contribution or if it was just the perfect storm. He came through it once puberty settled and we sorted our marriage issues. But I recognise my role in escalating issues.

I have a 15 year old Dd who is similar and who I am sure has ADD. I remember asking for help with her angers when she was about 8 and DHand myself are very placid and could not cope with kicking and yelling. It is all over in minutes and she is apologetic and cuddly but it is exhausting to live with. Bedtimes are the worst as she will wander around til 11/11.30 often doing homework last minute ( but still gets lots of detentions for forgotten homework) . She will then get home from school and want to sleep and the pattern continues. We have so many rows about it. She has mocks next week and she has gone from being ' gifted and talented' at primary to not sure if she will even pass some subjects. I have sat through so many parents evenings where they have said she does not concentrate/talks/ looks out window/ zones out. I have asked them to look into ADD but not taken seriously because she is doing so well in languages. No advice but feel your pain. We also have a kicked in bedroom door which we have decided not to repair for a few years.

Had a quick look at NVR and I think the most useful advice given ever was not to 'get into' an argument when she has lost control as it escalates so quickly. The HV gave me a picture of a volcano errulting with lava flowing down and said during an eruption you cannot stop it but at a calm later moment, get your child to identify what causes the eruptions and what they think might help them at that point. For my DD it was about needing personal space and I try ( and often fail) to honour that and do not start threatening consequences until everyone is calm.

Yes personal space is really important - someone told me never to follow the teen into their cave - wish I had known that. Knowing they need personal space and then trying to achieve it by walking away is a very good mature strategy -- me chasing him down, cornering him in is cave - not so much.....

When mine wouldn't go to bed, or refused to turn their music down, I used to turn the electricity off. That meant everybody had to go to bed (not a problem for me!) Of course these days you'd have to confiscate their phones and tablets as well!

I know people with boys who have similar issues who swear by boxing as it's physically demanding and teaches discipline though so does karate. My dd is autistic so we have had our troubles but she loves her bed, insomnia upset her. Getting him to help fix his room might be a good idea, either alongside you or a handyman open to this - the 1:1 time is good and teaches a skill on top

Talking over a sink full of pots used to help with my kids and pointing out how they would become ill if they didn't get enough sleep; how the immune system relies on regular sleep as well as exercise to function correctly and how upset I'd be and how devastated their friends would be if they ended up in bed for a week with the flu just because they wouldn't go to bed at a reasonable hour!!
All said very calmly in a genuinely concerned tone of voice.
It worked. In a guilt trip sort of way!

It does sound like he has trouble with 'big' emotions. Maybe he finds it hard to keep a lid on everything at school and it bursts out at home?

Perhaps you could talk to him about a way forward with his devices and bedtime, perhaps a way to earn them back by getting better sleep? Does he have trouble falling asleep? It might even help to teach him some mindfulness to see if it might help him manage his emotions?

I have a DD16 who has always had some exceptionally difficult behaviour. I do feel your pain. The violent side of explosive reacting started age 18months and continued until about 2 years ago. It’s is now just verbal aggression but is getting less as she gets older. I too have been through CAMHS etc, she also spent from year 7-10 being very very difficult and resistant at school. She is less resistant with her father as he doesn’t have any rules

It is always always triggered by rules and authority but the answer is not to give in, that only ever actually makes it worse in the long run.

for you
I also hug even when I don’t really want to (as I am so stressed) but it does make us both feel better and diffuses things! Also broken things must be fixed and chores done to earn rewards. A battle I am now finally winning...

That reaction to devices being taken, plus late night wakefulness, suggests a pornography problem or a secret relationship. Given he's 13, I'd say porn is most likely -- and teaches boys it's fine to treat women like garbage and hurt them if they won't do exactly what you want. I have seen several teenage boys with existing issues become truly horrible and terrifying once they had the ability to access porn with titles like "stupid blonde slut gets tricked into anal and cries."

Completely disagree with @WombOfOnesOwn Sounds to me like a standard case of screen-addiction (some children/teens are more susceptible than others), combined with a particular personality (this is not a judgement on that type of personality). I think it's an immense imaginative leap from impulsive/angry/defiant/challenging behaviour (which the OP seems to be dealing with very well) to an addiction to online anal sex videos...

Totally agree @Portillista

I don't think porn is the issue. We have restrictions on our internet.

He's always been defiant and objectionable. Ridiculously angry too.

I need to find a child psychiatrist. It seems h's BUPA care through work might pay for it.

Bloody hell. Like a PP wisely stated, he can control his anger as he didn’t choose to smash up his Xbox or TV did he? Just things he doesn’t personally care about.

Re the going to bed issue I’d say 13 is more than old enough to be allowed to self regulate, it’s ridiculous trying to enforce bedtimes for a teenager, at that age I was going to bed whenever I liked and it’d have been pretty weird for a parent to have tried to dictate what time I slept.

But the anger is a different kettle of fish and I’m glad you’ve recognised that. I’d be cautious re treating him like he’s unwell or seriously mentally troubled. It’s likely to make him feel he’s got justification for acting however he likes. Really he needs to learn ASAP his actions have consequences and will continue to do so for as long as he behaves this poorly. That’ll resolve this far more quickly and effectively than sessions on a psych couch making him introspect into why he’s acting like this and coming up with justifications.

Try talking to him. Maybe there is something that is bothering him that he is keeping to himself.

No outlet for his anger (that he feels comfortable accessing) CAMHS can be weird for some kids. Also he sounds like he's trying to find his place in the household. Could you invite him downstairs to watch TV with you in the evenings?

Is he one of those left-handed, sensitive, unmanageable hair, good at maths and computer games types? If so, get him a guitar from ebay. (sorry I know that seems a bit random)

Portillista, please stop stripping the covers off your 14 yo daughter in the morning. She is entitled to bodily privacy in her own bed. There is no greater good to be served that warrants that sort of invasion of privacy.

Oh, mathanxiety, don't be so silly. She is up to her chin in a flipping onesie! If there were any risk of exposing her body, it would be pretty obvious. Of course I wouldn't do it in that case.

I might have to invest in an air-horn, though, as that's what my boarding boys' housemaster used to get them up in the morning.

My DD was like this. Good as gold at school but a nightmare at home. Trashing her room out of anger and never bloody sleeping.

I was constantly told I needed to enforce boundaries, use rewards etc. Nobody listened when I said I do, they just never work. If she was on a particular path then nothing I could threaten her with or bribe her with would change her direction. Nothing.

Thankfully at 15 she saw a psychologist who really did know their stuff and also saw what I saw. She was eventually diagnosed with autism.

She's 25 now and doing quite well for herself, but she still doesn't sleep.

@MimpiDreams where did you find the psychologist please?