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Original poster

Deed of trust when married

125 replies

Mercier1 · 13/11/2018 23:33

Hi everyone.
Tomorrow I’ll be exchanging on a house my husband and I are buying. We currently live in his house he bought six years ago with parental help for the deposit. We moved in together when he bought it and I’ve always contributed to the mortgage and bills. We decided on a ratio in line with who earned more. We were soon engaged, got married, have a baby and another on the way.

We’ve decided to move on and the next house is in both names. I will be contributing 10k or so to the purchase but obviously my husband has a lot more equity now and more cash from his parents (he says 80K) between both lump sums they have gifted him/us.

Tonight final paperwork is coming across and lawyer drops in a letter about if we want to draw up a deed of trust to protect my husbands investment in case anything went wrong. I don’t know how I feel about this. We are a married couple and I’m about to give birth to his second child. That entails a loss of earnings/mat leave etc. In the future I imagine I will have money to put into the house, an inheritance maybe one day of my own.

I feel weird signing a deed of trust as a married woman. But then I guess it’s a huge sum on money and we have been going through a difficult time lately so I can imagine what my husbands thoughts might be tonight.

We exchange tomorrow so it’s prob too late but anyone got experience or insight for me?

OP posts:

Moffa · 14/11/2018 22:06

I would sign it & move on. Might make your DH relax.

In the event of a break up these Trusts are basically irrelevant. They are not unbreakable and a court would rule in favour of fairness & would not see a mother & children homeless.

Good luck with your pregnancy OP & hope your new baby brings lots of happiness to your marriage.

sollyfromsurrey · 14/11/2018 22:16

If you were to split, you want to share his inheritance but keep all of your inheritance as you have not received it yet. Seems a little unfair.

GloomyMonday · 14/11/2018 22:27

Please ignore Moffa and pp telling you that a Deed of Trust is worthless. It isn't, it's legally binding. I note you say you're going to take your own legal advice and I think that's the best idea, even if it holds up the house purchase.

Im sure you've already done plenty of googling but advice from the co op here

LadyLapsang · 14/11/2018 22:28

Based on your updates it sounds as if the issue is more about your joint confidence / security in the relationship and what would happen if you split up. Does he think you will expect him to leave and live in a house share or worse? Do you think he would try to force a sale and you would struggle to get a motgage for somewhere smaller? Probably time for some counselling to help futureproof things.

HeckyPeck · 14/11/2018 22:30

DH wants to protect his money, but what about OP losing out on money/pension contributions etc by working PT?

Did he ever suggest he’d be the one go part time?

How would it be fair if he got to walk away with all his inheritance plus his vastly superior earning potential?

Nah. Marriage = all or nothing. Not one taking all the risks while the other protects themselves with legal documents.

Original poster

Mercier1 · 14/11/2018 22:39

@sollyfromsurry where did I say that?? I have never said that. I said if he wanted me to sign over this and I did would I then be drawing up deeds of trusts everyone I invested lump sums into the new house? IE if I had a windfall. I certainly wouldn’t expect him to sign anything particularly as I haven’t in this case. Not sure where you’ve gotten this idea from.

OP posts:

GloomyMonday · 14/11/2018 22:43

"How would it be fair if he got to walk away with all his inheritance"

Tbf in that event, op would expect to walk away with hers for she hasn't received it yet.

"plus his vastly superior earning potential?"

OP said she has the potential to earn more than her DH. Personally I think she should just do that and remove the whole 'reduced career/earning potential' argument.

Original poster

Mercier1 · 14/11/2018 22:43

I think he thinks i would get everything and he would get nothing which is not based on fact at all. Our only asset is our home. And no reason to think we would have anything other than shared custody. He’s a brilliant dad. I don’t even want to entertain thought as I’m pregnant. I imagine worst case we would have to sell up? But I don’t really know. If it was the case that they viewed it that he had provided me with a home by getting on the ladder etc I would stand to be homeless I guess. His parents could bail him out. Not an option for me.

OP posts:

Original poster

Mercier1 · 14/11/2018 22:46

How do you suggest I do that as I’m about to start another period of maternity leave? Prior to my last one I did 2 jobs with a commute resulting in huge stress and pain due to physical complications exacerbated by being overworked during the pregnancy. However I put aside the cash I earned for my maternity leave for our family joint account. My husband encouraged me to resign from the second job as it wouldn’t work with family life. It was the sensible thing to do.

OP posts:

Original poster

Mercier1 · 14/11/2018 22:47

@gloomymonday that last comment was for you

OP posts:

Original poster

Mercier1 · 14/11/2018 22:49

Thank you @Moffa I appreciate that. I would sign it but he told the lawyer we didn’t need it and isn’t discussing it with me. I said we should talk about it but he doesn’t want too.

OP posts:

HeckyPeck · 14/11/2018 22:51

My husband encouraged me to resign from the second job as it wouldn’t work with family life. It was the sensible thing to do.

I’m glad he doesn’t want to sign it, particularly in light of the above. He encouraged you to sacrifice your earnings and take the risk that he’d support you. He couldn’t then say he wanted to take legal steps to protect just himself!

Original poster

Mercier1 · 14/11/2018 22:56

@HeckyPeck tbf to him it was sensible I don’t know how I could have got to the train station before the baby was even awake. I wasn’t super happy in that role either. But it was a promotion... I don’t think he would ever accept that any of these decisions weren’t my own as they were.

OP posts:

Original poster

Mercier1 · 14/11/2018 22:58

Also the only time he supports me is when I’m on maternity. He contributes about £300 per month more than I do to the pot.

OP posts:

Racecardriver · 14/11/2018 23:04

But a deed of trust probably wouldn’t protect his contribution anyway. It obviously depends on what kind of trust it is but if it is a bare trust created to avoid paying out in a divorce the courts will still count it as part of his assets.

HeckyPeck · 14/11/2018 23:09

I don’t think he would ever accept that any of these decisions weren’t my own as they were.

It sounds like a joint decision to me. And just because you also agreed with it and wanted to go part time that doesn’t make the risk you’ve taken any less.

It would be very unequal if he chose to protect himself from risk and left you taking all the risks.

GloomyMonday · 15/11/2018 06:04

"How do you suggest I do that as I’m about to start another period of maternity leave?"

Well I went back after six months, career intact and doesn't seem to have suffered for four children.

I just read a lot on here about women enjoying being a sahm or working part time, presumably a joint decision unless their dp is abusive, and then when their marriages fail, as 50% of them do, they talk about the sacrifices they've made. I agree that their contribution to the marriage should be legally recognised and that the children should be protected, but always wonder why they put themselves into such a vulnerable position. Here you are, at the beginning of that journey, so I'm just saying : if your marriage is rocky, and even if it isn't actually, get back to work full time and make sure motherhood doesn't make you financially vulnerable.

It's all moot now surely, if he's rejected the idea of a Deed of Trust anyway?

GloomyMonday · 15/11/2018 06:13

"But a deed of trust probably wouldn’t protect his contribution anyway. It obviously depends on what kind of trust it is but if it is a bare trust created to avoid paying out in a divorce the courts will still count it as part of his assets."

A Deed of Trust would certainly protect his inheritance and is legally binding. The courts could not dismiss it. OP could use contract law to attack it legally - didn't know what I was signing, was coerced etc but courts could not simply ignore it. I wouldn't want op, or anyone reading, to sign one thinking it could be easily overturned later because if you sign it, it holds.

sollyfromsurrey · 15/11/2018 06:53

I just think inheritances should be ring fenced. OP would have a claim on DHs pension for the period of marriage should the marriage fail. I believe all assets earned during a marriage should be divided up but money made before or from inheritance should be ring fenced. Why should one partner benefit from years of earning made prior to them ever meeting (not suggesting OP has or would). Case in point, Heather Mills. Equally why should a partner benefit from their DPs inheritance just because it came during the marriage. Sets up situations where one DPs inheritance is spilt but the other gets to keep all theirs just because fate had it that the inheritance cake after the split. One DP should not leave a union winning and the other losing.

Original poster

Mercier1 · 15/11/2018 07:26

@sollyfromsurry he hasn’t been paying into his pension for years. When I found this out during the mortgage process I was extremely angry as he is a bit older than me and he still hasn’t sorted that out. Very frustrating.

OP posts:

Original poster

Mercier1 · 15/11/2018 07:29

@gloomymonday I have always been on a fractional contract in my current role but picked up extra hours and then took on another fractional role in another city so it equated to - f/t job. Being PT isn’t exactly a choice it’s an issue with the type of work I do and where. It’s just all quite frustrating. I’d love to earn more money. Seriously would. And if I was FT to be fair to my husband I think he would go PT and look after kids ... as I can earn more. And yes it’s all a moot point now.

OP posts:

ILovePierceBrosnan · 15/11/2018 07:37

Mercier I’ve found this thread very useful. The world seems divided between those who think women should automatically give up work and their partner is then responsible for their financial circumstances for another 20 years or you should always pay your own way and go back to work within a year of the child being born.

I’m a strong believer in women maintaining their financial independence but when you marry/have children it does get murky and less clear cut.

FWIW I think large family gifts should remain with the person they were gifted to so I’d accept the Deed of Trust but I would also sit down and ask him how he financially values your maternity leave and consequences of having the child as it has obviously impacted you the most. This will tell you whether you can trust him on divorce. If he doesn’t recognise the impact on your finances then don’t sign...

Original poster

Mercier1 · 15/11/2018 08:30

@ILovePierceBrosnan I believe he does value my contribution. You are right it’s really murky. I’m meant to be in a loving marriage the idea that I should rush off back to work putting a little baby in FT childcare just to ensure I have more cash for financial independence doesn’t sit brilliantly with me. We are a partnership and we are making choices together based on what’s best for all the family including the babies... neither of us wants babies in childcare all day 5 days a week. We are married (not cohabiting partners) because we were happy to share our finances etc too. Having said all that I agree that he’s not wrong to maybe want to ringfence his parents gift... he’s decided not too but I could understand it. Having said that if I have a windfall I’d put it into the house without question I think.

OP posts:

PinsPegs · 15/11/2018 10:25

OP, Strategically speaking you may be better off agreeing to ring fence the money the parents have given their son. If I were them I would be more likely to give him more money if I knew the money would stay with him or his children. Even if the money is ring fenced it still benefits you greatly.

lifebegins50 · 15/11/2018 11:21

@GloomyMonday, having gone through a divorce recently with a deed of trust I can state it's not a factor in divorces, where dc involved.

This worked against me and I was not the beneficiary of my deed. It confirmed our contributions but that is not the overriding factor in divorce law.

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