I go off men who are consistently nice to me - can I change this before it is too late?

[dontstopthedrums]

For about the 5th time (in between some not very nice relationships with unsuitable, unavailable men), i've started dating a very nice man.

Not only is he nice but we click intellectually, he's got a good dense of humour and sex is good. I don't fancy him like mad - but i havent ever with anyone until i've properly fallen for them, so that is normal for me.

But i am going off him because he is so consistently nice!! I know when he will call, he never lets me down, he likes me a lot and doesnt keep that to himself, always wants to please me...

in the past i have given up on men like this because it made me uncomfortable. a year later i would see they got married and i wished i had pursued it more. i do want to settle down, i just seem to only stay with men who are difficult to keep for one reason or another.

any advice? feeling pretty down about my attitude, it is like i want to self sabotage. it has been put to me that maybe i am not THAT in this man - that may be true, but i bet my life on the fact that if he didnt call consistently or was a little distant with me from time to time, i would be VERY into him. which is sad and i dont want to be like that. i sort of feel scared of it all, the fact it is so simple.

I think the key is to adjust your thinking, and convince yourself that you deserve a decent man. That's what helped for me. I stayed in bad relationships with men who treated me badly because I thought it was all I deserved. My current DP is unwaveringly good to me, and from time to time I still have to take myself in hand and remind myself that I am deserving of love and good treatment. It takes a while to re-program yourself, but it is possible!

There are quite a few threads on here at the moment about this. That's not to diminish your experiences but to put it into some sort of wider context. It seems we have become accustomed to poor treatment and precarious attachments. The way in which people relate and connect to others has changed over time.

So, chaotic or ambivalent attachments seem familiar to us. How was your childhood?

Why are you like this? Why do you self sabotage with nice men? There is a reason. And you need to work at it.

Childhood was good objectively. I have never felt I could rely on either parent emotionally though. Always kept my emotions to myself and never ever felt my feelings were heard unless I screamed and shouted and made a fuss - if a particular feeling was worth it, otherwise I just didn’t express it.

I’m mid thirties now though. Could that really be the issue? I KNOW that my experience as a child isn’t healthy and now I talk about my feelings easily and openly with friends (albeit not family). So I do know the ‘right way.’

This man is lovely but the more lovely he is the more uncomfortable I feel! I genuinely feel scared to be at peace with him/us. It would be easy for me to write it off as another one I’m just not that keen on, but history tells me that isn’t necessarily the case given that I often regret it when these nice men have settled down (and are there h unattainable)

*thereby

You have already a really clear indication of why you feel familiar with chaotic or ambivalent attachments. It's a bit like finding security in the insecurity it creates. If someone keeps you at an emotional distance, and you have to only rely on yourself you believe that the lack of reciprocity on their part protects you from being vulnerable to them. You can choose to keep yourself safe never fully trusting them to meet your needs. It may cause you a lot of emotional pain which you keep to yourself never really holding them to account or expecting better. But it's familiar and as such feels safer than the alternative.

I think it's less about self esteem. Although it's effects on self esteem are negative. The cause probably isn't always low self esteem, but working on this can only be a good thing.

I'd suggest psychotherapy with an emphasis on attachment.

In the meantime try to just enjoy the relationship on your own terms. Take joy in the bits that make you happy, and try to focus on living in the moment.

Thanks so much for your post. All makes sense.

I definitely would invest in therapy as this has been an issue from a young age and is evident throughout many of my chaotic relationships, the last one which was very abusive.

Are there any books you would reccommend on attachment and specifically how to learn proper, healthy attachment style?

I am the same! Get mr unavailable and the fall back girls book or the books on attachment theories they really helped me to understand why and a really interesting read

Agree with pp counselling re attachment.

Relationships eh? Funny things!!
I was having this exact conversation with teenage ds1 yesterday.

The irony is that you have to let go and make yourself initially vulnerable in opening yourself up to the possibility of love. which is a kind of weird thing, but by making yourself vulnerable you enjoy the ultra heights of what love can actually bring.

The trick with relationships is to have the sense to choose carefully. If you have very good 'people sense' you are drawn to really nice people, honourable people, naturally.

And always make sure you are equal. The relationship is balanced. You are as into them at every stage, in the beginning, as they are into you.

: If you start to realise that maybe you're a bit more into them and they're not reciprocating or don't want to see you as much, then those are the kind of things that should bring up warning signs, minor red flags and make you withdrawal minorly, and make you question the relationship, in the present, the now, but also question does it have the potential to be right long-term?

It's all actually really quite complicated, but you just need to be aware.

End of maternal chat to son!!

Have you told him what you've told us? Not in the sense of hinting to him that he should be more horrible(!) but more as a first step towards acknowledging the vulnerability you have and moving towards being able to open yourself up to the possibility of a healthy relationship.

Those I know in the same situation as you crave the bad treatment as a guard to keep up so that they never become too vulnerable, too close, too reliant or dependent on the partner. Almost like if they relax into the relationship without drama and anguish it makes it too real.

He sounds nice btw

I don't think any books are ever going to be as useful as psychotherapy. In order to create a secure space within yourself and change your thinking you need first to recreate that secure attachment in the safe therapeutic relationship. It needs reciprocity and feedback to you.

The only book I can think of off the top of my head is "The Search for the Secure Base" by Holmes. He pioneered attachment perspective and practice in psychotherapy. But it's a bit dry and theoretical! And bits of it quite boring

I have told him a bit.

What doesn’t make sense to me is that I really love intimacy and being close to someone and I am really good (even if I say so myself!) at being there for someone and being available myself.

It’s just when THEY are the same it freaks me out a lot. I think why are they so keen on me? In reality I’m not sure they are that keen, they’re just being a normal nice person without any bullshit.

Although my ex was truly awful to me (abusive, silent treatment every other day at one point), I felt in control of thing. I’m so confused with this man because a lot of how he is with me makes me feel embarrassed. For example the other day he said he’d never been that keen on going down on women but he likes it with me because he likes making me happy... it made me cringe but actually, that’s a nice thing isn’t it?

Is it?

He sounds lovely and believe me that's what you want in a husband and father for your children if you ever have any. Have a read of all the threads on here about cheating/selfish/sexist "d"hs and you'll see what I mean! I think it's a good call to maybe talk to someone yourself and try to get to the bottom of why you sabotage good relationships. I have a a husband who's lovely, dependable, pulls his weight etc and I'm so grateful he's in my life everyday

Another thing that may be relevant is that I would be a lot more into him if I felt there was competition. How bloody awful does that sound! Why am I like that? It is like it is a seal of approval if someone else also wants the man or he has been in a serious relationship before etc.

Sounds like a self-esteem issue to me. I read a quote the other day that said "we accept the love we think we deserve", and that made a lot of sense to me.

You deserve someone who's lovely to you.

I feel the same Dont. All my relationships have been tempestuous and for the first time in my life I am with someone nice, kind and calm. I feel like I am going off him because the level of emotion is not being sustained through the ups and downs that I am used to, sounds similar to you - it's not that we're going off them, it's that the rollercoaster of emotions isn't there.

And I've just realised that this time I am taking it slow and getting to know him, I was engaged to ExH after this length of time with him, and living with a previous ExP. No wonder it feels less passionate!

tiredpony it is definitely the lack of ups and downs.

Strangely I don’t actually enjoy the ups and downs, I enjoy the effect it has, I feel secure by it. How can that be?!?

Even bad habits are hard to break I guess? Actually i was listening to a radio show and they were talking about Gambling addicts and one addict said that even losing gave a certain type of buzz that he craved, it almost sounds like that when you two tiredpony & dontstopthedrums talk about the buzz of the ups and downs.

Oh dear! The competition, oral sex, and abusive ex, means that your self esteem is damaged. And your 'filters' for What constitutes a normal relationship are actually way off kilter.

How does the oral sex relate to self esteem?

Because you didn't recognise it instantly as a nice thing.

I would have smiled. And considers it a given. And expected nothing less.

Because Dh is naturally kind and giving. That's why I chose him!!

I did think it was nice but hate that it also made me cringe and I don’t know why that is

Example. Him offering to pick me up makes me feel awkward.

If he’d treated me badly today then I would think this offer was a nice one. Because he has been nice all day, I think it is too much

Look, OP. The issues are yours. It’s up to you if you want to work on them, or keep having the kind of tempestuous relationships with distant, unavailable or abusive men you seem to prefer. You don’t trust or value yourself or your own instincts, so you feel more secure when other women value the man you’re in a relationship with, or when he doesn’t seem that keen on you and has to be persuaded, because that’s objective ‘proof’ of his value.

Essentially, you’re like Groucho Marx — you don’t want to join a club that would have someone like you as a member.

I don’t think this is that complex- essentially you don’t want a man who is a push over or a people pleaser or weak willed. You want someone who is strong and goes after what he wants and has clear boundaries.
Unfortunately you have had difficulty by confusing these positive qualities with a man who is selfish thoughtless nasty and vain. These things (for you) give you a flavour of what you want but also bring emotional turmoil for the wrong reasons.
In my experience it’s easier for weaker men to strengthen themselves, set clear boundaries and find their path through self improvement than it is for selfish arseholes to become considerate.

The issues that usually unfold is because we don’t like to tell people what we need from them so they have to work it out for themselves.