I genuinely didn't think attitudes like this still existed

[Liverpool23]

Hello everyone,
I hugely need some wise advice
My fiance and I have been together 14 months. We were friends for 5 years before then. He proposed last week which I am over the moon about
My family have met him 2 to 3 times. My family live 250/300 miles away so the only reason for them not seeing him lots is the distance.
I am the youngest of 6 children and we were all raised in a strict Christian household.
My fiance is also from a strict Christian upbringing and from a different country. He did, however have a ONS 9 1/2 years ago (ie before I knew him) and now has a 9 year old son. We see this child once a week and he pays maintenance. I.e - he made the most out of a bad situation, he stepped up and is a Dad to his son

When we announced our engagement my family completely flipped out. One of my siblings has completely been so kind - congratulations etc but it could be because she has just had triplets (so obviously focused on my amazing nephews and niece)
My family wrote my fiance a letter which was (in my eyes uncalled for)
I essence this letter says things like:

Your fiance is only after a British passport (no, he has permanent residency)
Your fiance will not be able to financially support you as a wife (he has a full time job and what is this, the 1950's? I work full time too)
He will just get you pregnant and leave (I understand why they are concerned about this but the second he knew about his son he has done the right thing by him despite the son's mum saying he is nothing but a sperm donor - but thankfully still lets them see each other)
Basically a whole lot of hurtful things. They are all coming from the right place, I know my family love me fiercely however

It makes me feel like my family think I must be stupid. My fiance talk and discuss any issues like a ''normal'' couple. He has been in this country for over 20 years. His family have welcomed me with open arms
It also makes me feel like they don't trust me to choose a good husband for myself
My fiance is beyond hurt by their remarks. He has sobbed the past 3 nights saying that he loves me and just wants to spend the rest of our joint lives together and doesn't understand this (perceived) rejection

It is not rejection from my family - they just love me a whole ton and they have gone into over protective mode
By the way I am 29, not a little kid so although I appreciate they care so much I love this man and can't wait to be his wife.

My fiance and I have also had times where there has been racial abuse thrown at us once or twice (mixed race couple) and it just makes me so sad that in 2018 these attitudes still exist. It is as if my family do not see him as a person but my fiance as a person from xyz country so he must be like this and that iswim?
I hurts me so much that my family have hurt my fiance so much. I can only think, well we will have to prove everyone wrong and just stick together and they will see given time but part of me so SO angry that they are judging him in this way.
All my friends in the city that my fiance and I live in have been nothing but supportive. Sorry for long post, I appreciate any advice. Thank you

Unfortunately this sort of thing does still go on, I know a few people like it. A neighbour recently commented that she had seen my DD 'out with an indian looking fella' in a shocked tone.

I'd be furious with my parents if they did this, it is racism. Certainly not a Christian way of behaving.

Slightly different scenario but my DP is Christian, I am not. And I have never ever experienced rejection like that which has come from his so called Christian friends.

From people telling him that he really ought to be choosing between me and God, that if he chooses me he is foresaking eternal life, to people telling him that while they’re prepared to remain friends with him they want nothing to do with me.

In my experience Christians are some of the most intolerant bigots which walk the planet.

In my experience Christians are some of the most intolerant bigots which walk the planet.

Amen to that (pardon the pun). Not just Christians, organised religions in general imo

Ok so it's just basic straight up white on black racism. I didn't want to make assumptions about either your heritage.

There are loads of racist Christians in the world, just look at the US.

I would turn this around on your family and say you are appalled and ashamed of their behaviour. That their attitude is antipathetical to Christian values and they need to write an apology to your fiancé and until you receive one you will not be in contact.

Your fiancé should under no circumstances meet your DH for further insults.

Bottom line is your family is your problem and you may lose him if you don't get them under control.

Him I mean your fiancé.

To be honest, it sounds like a whole mix of various things... Racism, sexism (your father thinking you can't make your own decisions) and control almost as if your family view you as their property.

I'd be telling them that if they didn't get in the 21st century, they would no longer be part of my life never mind be invited to my wedding.

Awful awful behavior from your family OP. Sorry you're going through this.

I’m very sorry, it sounds like your family are racist and emotionally manipulative.

It doesn’t come from a place of love, it comes from a place of control.

Racism, pure and simple.

Yeah it sounds like pure and simple racism to me too. That's why they're making up all sort of ridiculous 'reasons' why he's not right for you - they can't come right out and say 'we don't like him because he's black.' I don't think your poor fiance should talk on the phone to your dad at the weekend - I think you should speak to your dad and say that you're protecting your fiance from his attitudes and that unless he starts having some manners you'll have to think about where your relationship with him is going to end up. He doesn't have to like your fiance at all, but he and your mother have no right whatsoever to imply that he's a bad person and try to guilt you into breaking up with him - that is manipulative, cruel and arrogant. Cut them off on this one right away or they'll continue to think they can put conditions on their interaction with you. Unfortunately it may mean that your relationship with them is permanently damaged but if they are such bigots I can't see how there's an alternative - you don't want any of your children to end up being subject to their racism and it's best to get it out in the open now before the wedding and certainly before you have children.

On the surface of it it doesn’t look good. I wouldn’t want someone I cared about marrying a man who wasn’t raising his child. Obviously if she refused to let him be with her/main career there isn’t anything he could realistically do though is there but this this isn’t the first thing that comes to mind for many people. There also an element of blame as well. Why did he get her pregnant? The chances of getting a ONS pregnant while exercising reasonable precaution is fairly slim so maybe they place blame on him for being stupid or reckless. Nothing you can do though is there? Just get over it and they probably will too.

Racecardriver why is that any of her parents business? Mention it in private to OP if you really feel so strongly about it but to write to the OPs fiance listing all the reasons they don't want their daughter marrying him is a terrible thing to do and completely out of the realms of what is acceptable for parents to do.

From what the OP has told us, he is involved in his child's life and sees them weekly, pays maintenance etc... I hardly think it's such a drastic situation that warrants the level of rejection the OPs family has displayed towards her fiance.

I wouldn’t want someone I cared about marrying a man who wasn’t raising his child

Eh? OP said:

has a 9 year old son. We see this child once a week and he pays maintenance. I.e - he made the most out of a bad situation, he stepped up and is a Dad to his son

Or do you mean all men who are no longer with the mother of their children are not "raising their child/ren"?

to write to the OPs fiance listing all the reasons they don't want their daughter marrying him is a terrible thing to do and completely out of the realms of what is acceptable for parents to do

This. I'm sorry OP but you're clearly seeing the whole situation from the biased position of loving your family. This was seriously rude and unacceptable behaviour. And if that was my family, I would immediately tell them that. In very strong words.

Hi Liverpool

re your comments:-
"My dad and my fiance are going to talk over the phone - they both want to do this on Saturday to sort things out"

No do not do this. It is also not down to your fiancé to sort this out. What is there to sort out anyway, this is a situation of your parents making after all. This is all on them.

"I will marry him regardless of what they think but I do usually have a great relationship with all my family and love them back so don't want to hurt them either!"

They have not bothered about hurting you both here and I would not give them therefore that consideration. Christian values indeed my arse, that letter was designed to hurt you. Someone once wrote that the worst type of bad man is the religious bad man; that person was correct.

"Being the youngest is so hard as I have my 5 brothers and sisters having an opinion AND my parents, well I am going to do what makes me happy for once - I know my fiance is rock solid"

Given what your parents are like I am not altogether surprised that you left home at such a young age.

As someone who many years ago overheard comments made about her future marriage (my mother was so afraid about me getting divorced!!!) I would urge you to further reassess and reinforce your own boundaries re your parents. You have been shown that your parents are not as nice as they appear to be to you and to the outside world.

(BTW we will soon celebrate our silver wedding anniversary).

I don't think I would be letting that phonecall go ahead unless and until your father has it out with you first and understands your perspective. He is infantilising you by going straight to your fiance. I think I would tell them this is happening, if they want to apologise and get on board great, then they can make amends with your do, if not then that's a shame but you choose him and have a good life.

@Andtheresaw - Thank you so much! It is pretty much ruining what should be a very exciting time for us
@Wherearemymarbles - I do fear this. My sisters children are 4 weeks old now and we are all totally in love with them. I do wonder if any children of mine will have the same reaction from my parents (I know that is awful to think but could just be the brutal truth)
@Sevenstones - There has been two occasions where we have had some sort of racial abuse whilst together, and he, probably a lot more times so I agree with you 100%

@AttilaTheMeerkat - wise words and very positive, thank you very much and congratulations on your silver wedding anniversary :)

I'm thinking this probably boils down to racism, under the guise of "concern". All you can do really is stand up for your fiance and refuse to accept your family's rudeness.

Absolutely no phone call to your fiancé it just exposes him to further abuse.

Until your parents have apologised there is to be no contact with them at all from either of you.

It's your job to deal with your awful family.

@Racecardriver - Perhaps he was reckless with precaution but he owned up to the result of his actions which is his lovely boy. As I said we seem him (at least) once a week and both have a good relationship with him. He pays the boys mum maintenance. We are not particularly friends but his mum and I can go out for a coffee together, no problem. The child is not the issue at all (well not in my eyes anyway!)

Stop and think about what you think 'sorting this out on the phone' actually looks like.

I suspect fiance thinks there's some sort of misunderstanding, DF will apologise for being a racist prick, all will be well.

I suspect DFather thinks this is a chance to warn him off you, check his immigration status and warn him that he'll never give his blessing, so marrying fiance will (eventually) break your heart.

It won't 'sort' anything. Plus having the men 'sort it out' is incredibly infantalising.

Do you ladies really think my Fiance and Dad should talk on the phone?

I agree that there are, at best racist attitudes on display from my parents but I feel like, at the same time the only reason they are like that is because they don't know him as a person very well so I thought the phone call will give a chance for them to understand each other better....okay so typing that has made me feel like I am being a little naive?

Sorry, I meant to say any men out there too :)

I think you are being naive yes. It's very good of your fiance to agree to talk to your dad on the phone but I think it's your job to protect him and to say that he doesn't have to do that - your family is your problem, not his. You say your parents just don't know him very well but that's not what's really going on is it? I mean, I don't assume nasty things about people I don't know very well - I reserve judgement, get to know them and at least act with politeness. I don't write nasty letters about them.

If that were the case, then surely your parents can think of that themselves before writing and sending a letter?