Can abusive husband change ?

[MammytoT]

Hi
My husband can be really kind and caring and I know he loves the kids and me dearly. He has been physically abusive towards me a handful of times and to my eldest child 3 times. Things like grabbing and pushing my son and me, throwing things at me , pinning me down etc. He was also emotionally abusive for a really long time and back in 2014 I left him for a week but he sucked me back in. He was brilliant for about 3 years then. Anyway I used to keep saying "next time you lay a finger on us I am leaving" and I just never do. March 2017 was the last time he was violent until Sunday night. It was the night before we were going on holiday and my son had asked for a drink. I fetched him one but slipped up the stairs and it went up the wall. I said "oh god im so sorry ive spilt juice up the wall" My husband completely lost it because he had spent the summer painting the walls. He came charging downstairs grabbed my arms and pulled me into the kitchen whilst I was screaming. He was freaking out like "don't just stand there get some wipes!" Grabbed some wipes and threw them at my stomach then charged back up to bed. I put the kids to bed and when I went into our room he was fast asleep. I woke him after an hour thinking he would apologise but he just blamed me . Said i make him this way, me and the kids dont have the respect required to live in HIS house etc. The next day he continued to blame me but just as we were about to leave for holiday he said "come here" and looked as though he would apologise. I said it's too late and he replied " if that's your attitude I'm not taking you then" (on holiday he meant) . I made it clear when we were on holiday that I was leaving him and he just changed completely and started crying . I said please don't ruin the kids holiday we can talk about this when we get back. We are at Center Parcs and he went into the jewellery store and bought me a £2500 necklace which he told me about and I made him return it. He just started worrying me because it's quite erratic. Anyway he has told me he has definitely changed and won't do it again, he swears on the kids lives etc. He has agreed to therapy but is worried about losing his job if they find out ?
2 questions

1. Do you think he can change ? He has been so good for so long it's come from nowhere all of a sudden.
2. If I leave him or if he seeks therapy, will he lose his job and therefore impact any maintenance payments/our income if we stay together. The kids are so accustomed to a certain way of life and my son would be so upset if his dad were to leave. He works in a role that requires CRB checks etc.

I've been with him since we were at school, and got pregnant at 19 so felt obligated to stay. It's been 12 years now and I can't live like this. But he seems genuinely sorry and keeps getting emotional . Do I believe him or would I be an absolute push over? I need help as I can't tell anyone I know in real life. I don't work as both kids have additional needs so I have multiple appointments throughout the week. I also don't drive because I have epilepsy and haven't got meds under control yet so can't learn. Financially and logistically I don't think I can leave, and he does seem sorry.

He sounds horrid. I would put my right arm, if pressed, the kids all say he puts them on edge. Sounds like you put finances first though, OP, so heyho.

He seems genuinely sorry because he IS genuinely sorry. The problem is, as you well know, that that won't stop him doing again.

I've been in your position and that's the bit that others just don't get. You don't stay because you fall for lies. You stay because at that moment in time it's the truth.

The thing that made a difference to me was a therapist telling me that I can't change his behaviour, I can only change how I behave in response to it. That resonated and I got out and never looked back.

You can do the same. And trust me, as one who's been there, when you end it and know in your heart and soul that it's for good, you will feel immense relief, like a huge physical weight has been lifted off your shoulders.

Yet another mother who puts her lifestyle over her kids physical and mental well being.

Well all the better to pay the therapy later on in life I suppose. You could always remind them of the awesome holidays they had to make them feel better.

push and shove grab, shaken me , throwing things at me etc

This is the behaviour you are teaching your children.

@gamerchick

That is so harsh. It is actually really hard to leave.

You can still love your abusive husband and love the life you worked hard to build.

You can't just turn your feelings off and especially op isn't working I think she said so it's a worry financially for her of course

I always thought my ex husband would still take care of his kids, he said he would, but nope he makes me pay for absolutely everything and he pays the min amount of child support he can through Cma.

His operating system is authoritarian might is right
He could potentially replace that with a caring nurturing egalitarian operating system
but it's very unlikely will acquire a lot of work and he would lose all the benefits that come with the 'me Tarzan you will obey' way of operating

@mumto2 he makes you pay because he's the boss and you must be punished for not deferring to him and this is much more important for his sense of identity than caring for his children

That is so harsh. It is actually really hard to leave

Doesn't mean it's not true, if you go on about money and holidays more than what it's doing to your kids mental health then it's pretty obvious what the priority is.

You can still love your abusive husband and love the life you worked hard to build

Yes which sends the message that he's more important than them.

Kids grow up and you reap what you sow.

I've left, he is my soon to be ex husband now

He is a high earner but he didn't even buy them a birthday present so my kids just have me to pay for everything. Whereas before they had 2 incomes

I'm just saying it's really hard to leave. I won't be going back I've started the divorce process

But op is right to consider the finances as she will be poorer like I am. Try not to judge her on that reason

What will you do next time the mask slips. Leave then

What will you do if SS come calling because the kids have told at school of the grabbing and shoving and maybe a smack as he's escalated.

In fact what would you tell your daughter if this was her telling you this.

call woman aid please and leave as he will escalate as they usually do.

But op is right to consider the finances as she will be poorer like I am. Try not to judge her on that reason
So once the kids are grown and in therapy thats ok then?

No not ok for any kids in any dv situation. But he is her husband and she must love him that's why she is minimising and defending him.

I agree he'll do it again. That's why it's called the cycle of abuse. There is a calm period after the abuse and the promises to change and then he does it all over again

I was like you lots of debt couldn’t see how I could leave ended up in a refuge.

The one thing the hv said to me when I asked the same question. Was he will do the minimum to make you fall back in line. I see it time and time again your fault , switch to sorry , buy gifts . Want help can’t help it.

My biggest concern in your post is your eldest has been abused and you are still there and didn’t report it.

I am not sure at what point you would leave.

My guess from your post is he is working with vulnerable people . It sounds like he absolutely shouldn’t

Can he stay with his mum while he has therapy. With the message that you're not promising you'll stay with him.

What's in his head that he thought dragging you was acceptable....just because you spilt a drink.

A number of jobs require DBS clearance...but if he's in a certain type of role...It's worrying he tried to justify his actions until you called him on it.

Hi all, I'm so grateful for all the supportive messages on here. Wasn't expecting so many replies at all. Obviously there are a couple of mean ones but to those who understand and have been through it and come out the other side , it's so reassuring to read. Finances are important because like some have said, I don't work or drive . I've told my son in the past that his dad needs to leave and he has begged me not to make him because he wants him to live with us. Obviously he is not in a position to make that decision but all of these things are hard and it's never black and white. As others have said it's so easy to sit and say if that was me I would leave but until you are there you just don't know. I know I have to leave but I am considering the logistics of it all and how I will manage financially without him. I can't just up and leave without a plan. Secondly I can't bear to have to spent any Christmases away from my kids or have weekends away from them, they've never spent a night away from me. And lastly, I am obviously hopeful that therapy of some sort will work so that the kids are able to grow up with 2 parents together and a comfortable life. As someone else mentioned it's hard when they aren't like that all the time .
I've joined this forum because I've been at such a loss as to who to ask for help or support.

Sandy that was my thinking that he could stay with his mum during therapy and I think thats the route we will go down. There is a lot to consider as the kids would struggle without him around. He hasn't been violent or abusive in any way for a really long time and the day after the event he was genuinely sorry which he hasn't been before. Again, I think he's sorry because I've said I will leave. Either way, he feels bad and it's hit home that he needs to change.
I can't just chuck him out/leave as soon as we get home without a plan. I need to know if we can afford to live and how I will get from A to B without a car.

You should try relate email counselling. You can write loads and they will address as much as you can and call womans aid anon

I think it you have a plan in place in case he does it again it's a lot less to worry about too. But speak to womans aid as he could hit you again if you ask him to leave.

Most abusive men deny ever being abusive but counselling is worth a try.

Can't think of a solution to the driving but the family fund is one of the ones I donate to and they help parents with SEN children they could maybe give you a grant for something, a bike with a double child trailer for quick journeys

You can bring the children with you on driving lessons too as long as you have a car seat for the younger one

Thanks mumto, I will start with relate, I would really like a professionals opinion and help. When you are in the thick of it its hard not to think you are over reacting isnt it. Unfortunately I can't even learn to drive at the moment as the medication isn't controlling my seizures but I will bare that in mind for the future (and hope I can afford lessons!). Thank you again for the supportive comments.

Did you have a look at the cycle of abuse diagram. Think you are now in the honeymoon period again with the promises to change



You're minimising his behaviour. He doesn't love you or the kids. If he did he would never treat you like that. What you are allowing is your children to grow up thinking this is normal behaviour.

He will never change.

Thanks mumto I did and I think that's where I got confused. We have never had a honeymoon period where he has seemed remorseful but when I looked it was just what he is doing. I ordered the Lundy book as well for when I get home.

Oh yeah sorry forgot about your epilepsy

Relate doesn't work for everyone but they helped me a bit

as I couldn't tell anyone either and they responded saying you are right to fell disappointed and let down and hurt and lied to. Just having someone to listen and say yeah he is gaslighting you

It is honestly really hard and unfair

because you work so hard to build a life together and he just goes and ruins it over and over.

I spent my whole adult life with my ex husband too.

Hope your kids are enjoying your holiday though.

Try the family fund though they may be able to give you a grant for taxis if he does move out for a while. Stay safe though

With mine, he agreed to leave then when he was actually went to leave he went crazy again starting throwing things at me even his iphone. so don't trust him that he will go without doing anything else.

Is it worth telling his mum? If you do mention that he bought/ordered you that necklace to try and make up for it then he can't deny it ever happened x

Hi

I wanted to respond to give you a slightly different perspective on this situation.

Growing up, my parents had a very turbulent relationship. My Dad worked hard but liked to drink and he and my Mum would argue openly in the house and exchange abuse, both having very fiery tempers. Often my Dad would take it up a notch and would be physically abusive to my Mum and me and my brothers. This by no means was a daily occurrence but nevertheless we grew up fearful of my Dad and only relaxed when he was at home.

My Mum chose to stay with him despite this, for all the same reasons as you, financial, not wanting to be a single mum, feeling of shame, insisting that it wasn't a big deal after the event.

Fast forward 15 or so years and they remain together. In all honesty their relationship is a lot more stable now, they bicker, but it's no way near as turbulent and there is no violence. By all intents and purposes they live a happy life which consists of complete denial of any wrongdoings in the past.

Fortunately I am in a relationship with a man who is nothing short of incredible and shows me love every day, but I struggle each and everyday to know how to behave in a loving relationship and have been known to pick arguments and display aggression (throwing household items at the wall and breaking things) during arguments that I have orchestrated. I consider myself lucky that I left the family home aged 18 and managed to secure a career and always maintained that my upbringing was not normal, but I battle with this everyday. One of my brothers has severe mental health issues, extreme paranoia and inability to hold down any friendship or relationship. My other brother moves from one doomed relationship to another, meeting women who dominate his life and are emotionally controlling.

The point I'm making now is that the impact of growing up in this environment continues on and despite the fact my mum and I have a fairly good relationship now, I harbour a lot of resentment toward her for not doing more over those years to protect me and my brothers.

Sending you strength and luck x

What are you getting out of this relationship now, consider that question carefully. What needs of yours are being met here still?.

Your children have never had two parents who can actually work together in a marriage. You always co-operate; he never has done. He blames you and continues to blame you for all his inherent ills so why are all your hopes here seemingly pinned on therapy for him?. You really think therapy will work here?.

You managed to leave him once and you can do so again particularly once there is a plan of leaving safely in place. Your safety here is paramount. Do not keep on teaching your children that he is more important than you or they because that is what they are seeing now. Fear of both him and fear generally amongst many other factors keeps people within abusive relationships and it is not easy to leave. It often takes several attempts. But its bloody hard to stay and he could well put you or even one of his kids in hospital; he is not averse to knocking your eldest one about and that will likely continue as well. One day too, your children will grow up and leave home, what then for you?.

Do you really also think that he should actually spend any time with either child in the long run given that he has been violent towards your eldest as well. All this man cares about is him, certainly not you and certainly not your children either. I doubt very much that he will actually see either child in the long run let alone want to pay for them via child maintenance.

Therapy ultimately will not work because this is deeply ingrained within his own psyche. Look at his parents OP: what lessons did they teach him about relationships?. Chances are that one of them was abusive towards the other at home and that is what your now husband learnt from them. He grew up seeing all that. I am making an assumption here I grant you but I bet your childhood was no picnic either so is one factor in making you far more vulnerable to the approaches and attention from this abusive man.

He certainly should not be with you now but I think its a given he will refuse to leave. You will need to therefore employ legal means to get him out via an occupation order and legal advice with a view to divorcing him. You will also have to start properly opening up to people in the outside world because abuse like this can and does thrive on secrecy.

Your children are not the arbiters of your relationship, you are. Children like seeing both their parents together along with stability but with you two being together they are getting none of that. They have seen and heard far too much already. They are getting a warped sense here of what relationships are all about and it would not surprise me if either one or both of them ended up in abusive relationships. This is no legacy to leave them.

If you've never had a night away from your children as well and have not worked, you sound isolated emotionally as well as physically. When do you ever get a break?. I take it as a given there is no respite care and you cannot rely on your so called husband to be of any use re them either. It would not surprise me if your isolation was deliberate on his part as well; its all been engineered by him to keep you further trapped and controlled.

That's exactly how I feel. We both work so hard for this life and it's all going down the pan when he does this. Telling his mum is a good idea but I worry he will make it out to be not that bad and she does think the sun shines out of his arse. If he agreed to leave we would just say we weren't getting along and need some time apart. I would have to ultimatum him and say if you refuse I will tell everyone the real reason. He refused to leave last time so we ended up going to have a week break from him and ended up going back. After that he was a lot better for around 3 years.
That sounds so scary when your ex left, I don't know if I would put something like that past my husband too.