First argument

[sadsadsady]

I've ever had with my Mum. I'm in my 40s.

It wasn't even really an argument, I just have had enough and told her for the first time that all she ever does is criticise me and tell me I'm doing things wrong (this time and recently largely to do with how I'm bringing up ds.)

It all came out. How she never says anything nice about me or ds, how I'm scared to talk to her and haven't seen her in two years because the constant criticism makes me feel so sad and bad about myself.

She totally gaslighted me. At first was very sneery and laughy saying I was wrong. Then when I brought up how she criticises my appearance and weight she said if it's something I can do something about then of course she should tell me.

She said she didn't think we should have this conversation anymore and hung up.

I didn't shout, I wasn't rude, I didn't say anything mean. I just snapped.

I'm shaking and feel sick. I can't stop crying. It was a few hours ago now.

I'm meant to be going back to see her in a few weeks and it's all ruined. I've no doubt she's going to try to spin it to the rest of my family that I kicked off for no reason and I'm mean or crazy.

It's been a long time coming. But I should have had a face to face, calm chat. Not blurted it out crying on the phone.

I feel so so down and heartbroken. I don't think she likes me at all. She never criticises my brothers in this way. She always says how her Mother did this with her. And her Mother with her. I don't see how she can't see what she's doing, she says such spiteful things and is always negative.

I'm a mess. I'm just lying in bed crying my eyes out. Ds and Dh are home soon, I need to pull myself together.

Sorry that's an incoherent ramble. I know it's ridiculous, families argue all the time, Dh and I are no strangers to a good row.

I've just never so much as had words with her before. I always agree and give way. I always just try to make her be happy and nice, she's terrifying when she's angry.

It was over the stupidest small thing too. I didn't make ds cut his hair because he said he didn't want to and she said it was ridiculous I'm letting him call the shots. What if he says he wants to do drugs when he's older? Does he get to choose that too? Why do I ask him things rather than tell him when he's just 4? I told her I pick my battles and in my eyes the hair isn't that much of an issue to me so if he says he doesn't want it cut I'm not going to forcibly do it.

It's not ridiculous!!!

Your mother is cruel and nasty to you and you stood up to her for the first time sounds like you are whipping boy and escape goat.

The family dynamic seems very toxic, time to walk away?

It's so toxic. But her life is awful. She has my brother at home who has severe disabilities. She doesn't have a friend in the world. She hates people.

I'm certain she has ocd. She hasn't eaten in a restaurant in years as she's convinced they are too dirty or the staff will do something to her food.

She's not been in a shop for years, orders everything online. Again, because she hates people.

I feel desperately sorry for her. But she's so vicious and it's aimed pretty much entirely at me and I just can't take it anymore. And I can't let ds be subjected to it either.

None of my family really see her doing it, I'm scared they'll all walk away from me if she says I've just had a random go at her from nowhere.

If these other family members are worth knowing they will listen to your version of events and still be there for you.

What do these people bring to your life?

You poor thing! I'm not surprised you're upset, your mother has been vile to you and she has no right to say such horrible things. Well done for standing up to her - I know you feel awful about it but you did do the right thing. She needed to be called out on her behaviour and you were absolutely right to defend yourself.

If your mum has been looking after your disabled DBro she is very likely a bit or even a lot stressed. Being a carer can be the loneliest thing ever. Depending of the nature of DBro situation, perhaps she spends her whole day in silence if he is non verbal or if he screams perhaps she craves silence. She could be at the end of her tether with the cuts to help from SS for disabled people.
As for not eating in a restaurant for fear it is not clean or they do things to the food well I have worked in many restaurants and I rarely if ever eat out.
The shopping online rather than going to the shop/supermarket. She may not want to bring germs home to Disabled DBro which could make her work load harder.
She should not be taking it out on you and it would be better if she was pleasant to the one person who would be a support for her, but this could be a side effect of the intolerable stress that carers have now with all the cuts.
Could you try talking things over with her? Mums do not really like to admit to their children that they are struggling. I have not told my DC things

Its my brothers, uncle and Grandma. I do love them all dearly. My Mum has done a number on my brothers. She's utterly gaslighting them in so many respects. I really think she thinks she's doing what's in my best interests in 'setting me right'. I don't think she's trying to be nasty.

They're so so negative. They both still live at home with her and are coming out with some shocking misogynistic things recently.

My head is whirring. I want to cancel my trip back to the UK. I know if things have been smoothed over she'll sit me down and talk to me about how I was being silly. She can twist anything to her being right. She should have been a lawyer.

I've taken it for years, I can let it go over my head. I can't let her put ds down though. And while I realise we all have different parenting views, it's just not ok to tell me mine are wrong in every single conversation we have.

@Stillme1 I totally get all of that. She is extremely stressed.

My dB isn't physically disabled, he is on the spectrum. He also goes off for daycare in the week for most of the day. It's still extremely stressful and lonely though. Although two other brothers also live at home, and help.

I do talk to her about how hard it is, I'm as supportive as I can be from far away.

She's always been like this though. I admire her strength and determination and what she's achieved is unbelievable. I just wish she could have a kind word for me instead of putting me down. I'm the only one she does this to.

It sounds like you've reached the end of your tether, quite rightly. Yes, it didn't go off in the way you hoped, but take this as a sign that your body and soul are telling you you are worth more than this and this isn't right! It's a positive thing. Two books I have found useful are Codependent no more by Melody Beattie and Jonice Webb's Running on Empty (which is all about growing up with emotional neglect and the toll it takes/behaviours it leads to). Both have been somewhat life changing and wish I'd discovered them years ago!!

Read the books Ada has recommended and make a life for yourself going forward without your negative family of origin in it. As you have seen as well toxic crap like this can and does go down the generations. You have finally broken the toxic dysfunction cycle with your child because you do not treat your child in the ways your mother (and in turn hers and hers) has done.

I would also suggest you read "Toxic Parents" written by Susan Forward and read and post on the "well we took you to Stately Homes" thread on these relationships pages.

She has never felt sorry at all for you but you are so alike to many people subjected to such toxic parenting. You are mired in your own fear, obligation and guilt; three damaging legacies that she instilled in you.

Many people are stressed and never act as your mother has done towards you. She has failed you utterly as a parent and instead of seeking the necessary help has used you as her scapegoat for all her inherent ills. She was not a good parent to you when you were growing up and she could well start on your DS in similar ways to you because he will also get scapegoated. Infact she has used him to get back at you, her behaviour re his hair for instance. Her behaviour is not at all acceptable but she will never apologise nor accept any responsibility for her actions. Its NOT your fault she is like this and you did not make her that way (her own parents did that).

Good for standing up for your self. Some people are toxic and you can't help.

Sounds like my mother. She has conditioned you to not question her or be critical of her in any way.
Look up FOG. Fear, obligation, guilt.
I have to say I was in my 50's till I dared to say anything to my mother. Isn't that ridiculous!
I'm now no contact as her criticism of me escalated. She wanted me to be destroyed mentally-and she achieved it. Until I walked away. Did some work on myself and now I have some confidence for the first time in my life.
Don't be me. If she has no friends there's a reason why.
She sounds like a narcissist (I reckon my mother is a narcissist and sociopath). You'll never win. Her aim in life is to demoralize you.

She doesn't have a friend in the world. She hates people
THIS is not your fault.
This is her. Her attitude and her issues.
She's put you down your whole life and you've finally stood up for yourself.
Good for you.
Although the FOG will mean you will feel really guilty for doing this. It needed to be done. So well done!!!

And now... it's up to you what happens next.
Personally, life is too short to have toxic people in them but I've never had to deal with a narc mother.

Do some googling.
FOG (fear obligation guilt)
Co-dependency
Narcissism (NPD)
Sociophath
And have a look and get some support from THIS THREAD

Just don’t go back.
Cut her of.
What does she actually bring to your life?

Thank you all. I will order those books. I need something to make sense of this.

I'm so sad I've not had a call, email or message.

If my ds told me he made me feel bad about myself and sad I'd be breaking my own heart and doing all I could to repair things.

It seems her pride is bigger than my feelings and that really hurts I'm not surprised though.

I didn't sleep a wink last night, I feel like I'm living in a bit of a nightmare, like my whole world has come crashing down.

A little bit of anger is starting to creep in with the sadness now.

Gosh I never want ds to feel like this because of me. How can we be sure we'll do it right? I'm starting to feel guilty and scared that I had him, I don't want to mess it up.

How can we be sure we'll do it right? I'm starting to feel guilty and scared that I had him, I don't want to mess it up.

Be the opposite of your mother in actions, love, kindness, support, friendships, relationships, respect, listening, etc etc. That's all you can do.
If you do that all will be fine.

She does indeed sound like a narcissist. Be brave OP, the smearing will start soon (if it hasn't already).

Gosh I never want ds to feel like this because of me. How can we be sure we'll do it right? I'm starting to feel guilty and scared that I had him, I don't want to mess it up.

He won't. Because you are a woman with strong empathic traits. All you need to do is listen to your own moral compass and you'll be fine.

I cannot believe you have endured that for so long without ever having an argument. You are so strong.

I also think you have a narcissistic mother, it does sound like you were raised within such a dysfunctional structured with your brothers being more favoured. You were and have been trained from early childhood to serve her at your own expense.

My late FIL had no friends either and there was indeed reason for that (he was a narcissist and simply used people to his own ends).

Where is your dad here, is he at all in your life?.

Many adult children of narcissists express those same fears. You won't treat your child the same as you were by your so called mother because you also have two qualities she lacks; empathy and insight.
You are not your mother and are separate from her.

As you have seen as well toxic crap like this can and does go down the generations. You have finally broken this toxic cycle with your child because you do not treat your child in the ways your mother (and in turn her mother and her mother) has done.

My Dad actually brought my brother and I up. She left when I was 7 and my brother was 4.

My Dad said yesterday that the day she left us she told him "I love you all but I want more." We we're living in a council house and she left to be with a rich, showy (and turned out to be utterly evil) man and went on to have more children with him.

I've recently started to tell my Dad the things she's said and he's very upset. We had a long chat yesterday. He thinks she's very disturbed, he told me some things about when she was younger and I'm shocked. He also said "I've always thought it ruined your life that she left, now I'm starting to think it may have been a blessing."

Which has upset me more in a way. A lot of my identity and personal turmoil has stemmed from her leaving, the thought that it may have been a good thing is going to take some processing.

With your update she's a definite Narc.
How a mother can leave her 2 small children is just something that I can't comprehend. But it happens.

And your dad is right. It probably was a blessing in disguise.
Your dad sounds lovely.
Your mum sounds awful.
Stop enabling this behaviour of hers.
You owe her absolutely nothing. NOTHING at all.
She abandoned you. She runs you down. She makes you feel like crap.
Honestly, you deserve far better. Just because she is your birth mother does NOT mean anything in terms of care and love and support for you.

Have you had counselling at all to come to terms with how she has treated you?
If not, then please look into it.
You need to get over the manipulation and guilt she lays on you.
She does not deserve you.
Your dad sounds wonderful.

I've not had counselling. I'm not really in a position where I can now. I live very remotely and the nearest place I could go would be a day trip.

My Dad is fantastic. As I've started to worship my Mother less and see her flaws I've become even closer to him. Sadly he's very sick. I can't even think about that at the moment though.

I'm struggling today. I've not heard from her. My intention was to email or message her and apologise for the abrupt way it came out over the phone and that I love her dearly but these are my feelings and they're valid.

But as time goes on I'm wanting to less. Dh and my Father said I should be the one to make contact but surely the onus is on her? I've said nothing aggressive or rude. I've simply said that she's critical and puts me down.

I feel like I've had a huge loss. I feel bereaved. I'm scared of my family pushing me away because of this. I wish I hadn't said anything now. I don't have much family at all and I think I've just alienated pretty much all of them.

When you have been raised to people please, then rowing with her is going to be deeply deeply uncomfortable. But sit with that discomfort. Do not go back to her to appease. Do not apologise. Do not back down and accept her reality.

My mother is nice if i go along with her but if i challenge her she is all forms of sneering wounded martyr beast.

but it gets easier

I had the third big bust up with my mother in april. She told another family member i wasnt taljing to her because i was embarrassed. No. Wrong mother.

I feel the worm is turning now. I feel she real7ses she has to hold back on certain behaviors now.
I feel more in control.

It is horrible to be in the midst of it op. It is so uncomfortable. Hold strong.

Thanks. I want to snap out of this. I can't stop crying then I start to feel panicky.