How can we stop our sons growing up to be like our husbands ?

[jasper]

Okay, so that's a tad cruel,and I am exaggerating for effect but I am sure you all know what I mean.
I have just read the thread on mens irritating little habits and don't know whether to laugh or cry.
Is there any hope for the next generation or are men genetically programmed to be a bit useless?

Oh dear, Sobernow.
Such a quick response , confirming my worst fears!

I am afraid that I feel the same as i get older.I once asked my son to do something for me and his answer was that" daddy never does those jobs so I'm not going to"This is my problem -however much I try to bring up my sons to be reasonable partners in the future the most important person - their role model is not all i would wish him to be.( in some aspects of our life together-like helping in the home)

At the risk of sounding horribly sexist (close your ears SimonHoward) my Mum always says: 'You have to remember that they're really such poor souls'
This has become something of a catchphrase amongst my female friends, but it doesn't really get us any closer to solving the problem!

Mooma

I have to say I am still teribly disappointed in the majority of men.

I have my mother to thank for being able to do most of these things but it seems most men are either pampered or lazy.

There's lots of smiles to be had on this thread, but I think we have to be careful of, even laughingly, letting our ds' know what we really think of our dps.
My dh drives me nuts sometimes because of his obsessive anxieties about some things, and then I remember it is because his witch of a mother brought him up to think of his late father, whom he very closely resembles physically, was useless on every front (bad with money; a bad father; a bad husband and a bad choice of acceptable career).
He lost his dad when he was six and had only elderly (fortunately loving) grandfathers in his life, and then only until ten, when they both died. So his entire young opinions of how men cope with life were according to his mother - they don't. She taught him how to cook and sew, and he's a treasure round the house, but at what price to his emotional development?
I'd recommend a book (by a man, but with a lot of excellent interviews with women) called Sons, Mothers and Other Lovers. Read in conjunction with Steve Biddulph, it's helped me and dh cope with the fallout from his childhood in the light of our partnership and raising our son.
Only on Mumsnet can I continue to say loud and clear, Yes they are useless. Phew.

I agree that we need to bring up our boys to be considerate and helpful and not a nightmare to their future wives and girlfriends. I have to say that my dp does shop, cook and clean and this had the effect last Sunday of making ds (4 3/4) want to do the washing up! So positive role models do make a difference IME.

When I think that my DH is useless (frequently) around the house I have to sit back and think of all that he actually does and then look at FIL and how much less he does around the house and also how little DH used to be expected to do when living with his parents (he was when we met). And he does a hundred times more and in some ways can be really thoughful and considerate - but in others totally thoughless, forgetful and rubbish!! I still feel like the buck stops with me in household matters though.

An illustration. PIL were on holiday and took DS out of nursery for the afternoon. I drove from work 60 miles to pick him up. We had our meal and then MIL got FIL and DS yoghurts but forgot FILs spoon. Just about to feed DS who is champing at the bit when FIL pipes up "don't I get a spoon". So MIL passes me DS's yoghurt and immediately gets up from the table to fetch it without a word.

DH would never have dreamed of doing that and if he had would have not been at all surprised to receive a sarcastic and probably rude answer. So if there is hope for DH there is even more hope for DS. And I think DH would agree with most of this.

I think my DH's upbringing must have been very much an exception to the rule, as he has always been very competent in the house and with the DKs. Yet at 57 he is probably a lot older than most of the men mentioned here - whatever happened to New Men??

His mother was raised in luxury in India in the 1920's, never learnt how to 'keep house' etc and is totally eccentric. When he was young she did no housework (still doesn't!), they ate when she felt like getting a meal, she breast-fed when FF was the norm, she sat in their jungle-like garden all summer and just about the only thing she insisted upon was good manners and courteous behaviour. Apparently, all his friends loved to come to their house becasue it was so laid-back! The spin-off is that DH and siblings had to do things themselves.

In turn we have expected our boys to do their bit and now 23 yr old DS2 is obsessive about the house and drives me potty, cleaning and fussing!!

In all honesty, I'm appalled at some of the messages I read here about DH's and DP's and find it hard to believe that such men exist let alone get away with such behaviour in the 21st century. I want to shake both them and the women who let them get away with it!! (Sorry, don't mean to upset anyone but I really, really do find it hard to undertand why!)

When one considers the massive changes in society over the last 30-40 years, why is it only the women who have made progress? Why is it only women who have been 'liberated' and gone against their role models by untying themselves from the kitchen sink etc? Why haven't men revolted against their roles of breadwinner and distant father, too? Maybe there needs to be a movement to liberate men!

Sorry for rambling - did't go to bed until 4am and now I'm delirious, I think!!

I'm really shocked by what I have read on here.

Dh is kind, considerate and very in tune with things that have to be done.

Also I get brought a cup of tea almost every morning in bed! But other than that he really is the tops, bit moody but so am I. I think if you treat them how you expect to be treated that helps, and we have always done that.

Right had my say, finish my cup of tea now!!

I work outside the home and dh works from the home. it has taken me almost 2 years to get him to put food in the oven - any food - so that there is something cooking for when I get in. He was quite content to wait for me to get in, and the excuse of 'I didn't know what you wanted' was raised when I moaned. However, my teen daughter has no such qualms, she came in from her first day at work and said 'that is the most pathetic excuse I've ever heard! All you have to do is get something out of the freezer and shove it in the oven at 430pm - why is that so much trouble?' Et Voila! Food in oven on return from work!! I have to say we've had some exotic combinations, but I'm not complaining. We've even had a bit of a moan when I'm late!!! All those years of being a housewife came out in 'At least I didn't phone up and tell you I was having dinner in town tonight eh?' Silence is golden!!

I think men are genetically programmed to do as little as possible. If they can get away with this they will. I'm training my son now so that he'll be a bit of a catch, and I'm also telling my daughter to get the guidelines drawn up BEFORE the living together gets started! she just looks at me and says 'I'm your daughter, what do you think?' Sooo proud!

Here here rozzy. If my ds (or my dd) grew up to have the charachter of my dh I would be over the moon. But the same seems to be happening with dd - far more like me, where ds is laid back and relaxed like his daddy. The more I read on mumsnet about other peoples dh/dp problems, the more I appreciate my great bloke. He doesn't iron, but he does everything else.

I would love my ds to grow up to be just like my dh, but with my ability to forward-plan and keep track of keys/wallet/mobile etc

I have to say that my brother was a lazy good for nothing when he lived at home and I am sure my DH was the same. However, they both left home in late teens, one for uni and one for work "down south" and I think this was the making of the man they are now. My FIL is a chauvinist and treats his wife like an unpaid servant but although my DH loves his father unconditionally he is nothing like him at all. I couldn't wish for a better husband (of course he has a few faults but then so have I apparently) but then I did wait until my mid-30's to meet him so I had to kiss a lot of frogs before I met my prince.

Sobernow- I know what you mean about if you don't do it yourself it doesn't get done but there are limits, girlfriend! My partner and I are both utterly useless round the house but at least we're equally useless... I would resent it SOOO much if I were doing everything. On the rare occasions when I vow to take the place in hand and make it a "home", it annoys the pants off me if he doesn't play ball too.
In your situation I would IMMEDIATELY cross the following things off your daily to-do list: Bringing him breakfast in bed, washing and picking up his clothes, reminding him of his families birthdays- UNLESS, of course, THESE ARE ACTIVITIES YOU ENJOY FOR THEIR OWN SAKE. Actually I'd cross off anything you don't particularly enjoy unless YOU would feel shitty were it not done or it's necessary for your DDs' well-being. Because unless he's lending a hand (as appropriate given his work commitments) his wishes on this matter JUST DO NOT COUNT, IMO. If he doesn't see your domestic courtesies for what they are, then try some domestic indifference- either he'll not notice- and why bother if he's happy either way?- or he'll start to see that clean, pleasant, well run homes don't happen by magic and if he wants one he needs to get off his bottom. Hope this isn't too rude- I'm sure he's lovely in other ways! But it makes me v mad to think of you doing all this with zero help and little appreciation.
Mr Sobernow- your partner is worth millions more that this! I call on you to bring HER breakfast in bed once in a while, help with the housework and tell her how fab she is to have been looking after you so well in that period before you realised you were an adult!

Men will do whatever they can get away with, so would we given half the chance! So your partner goes out until 2am and then has a hangover the next day - so what? You go out the following weekend and do what he has done. Do your own washing and leave his for him to do - why are you doing his washing? Does he know how to operate the washing machine? If not, why not?

I know there are some bs out there that I would not dream of defending, the rest just need to be told that the party's over, you're not their mother. My dh comes from a very traditional family, his mum does all the cooking/cleaning/housework and his dad would not dream of lifting a finger to help her. But my dh left home, he had to fend for himself for a while so he knows how to operate the washing machine, he can cook a mean curry, he can change the sheets on the bed and he knows what to do with a dishcloth. When I met him I thought it would be a shame for him to lose these vital skills, so I made sure he got plenty of practise in! If he didn't like it he knew where he could go, I'm mother to my daughter only.

So get out your feminism books and take action! You might have a dirty house for a while but it's worth it in the long run. It doesn't affect you if none of his clothes are cleaned or ironed does it? We never get to see under the toilet rim so what do we care if it's not clean? They however will care and they will crack sooner or later. Then once they acquire these 'lifestyle' skills there's no excuse for not putting them into practise is there?

I think the message is that they will get away with it - IF WE LET THEM! After all, if someone did all your washing and ironing and picked up after you - would you complain? In my dreams, dressed in a gladiator costume....ooer!

Breakfast in bed? Whoever heard of such a thing?!

Oh no we don't! I don't anyway. I just think he's a lucky man and should be slavering with gratitude! Also I think it's fine if it gives YOU what you want- like family time in the morning. The only danger is if you end up feeling resentful because you're the one doing all the work... A weekend away could be the answer! Then dp can look after the girls and the house and learn the true horrors of housekeeping solo.

sobernow, don't worry, you certainly don't seem like a doormat! And I also often take dp breakfast in bed, I do all his washing etc etc etc. But he makes me laugh and he's good looking so I don't care