Would this count as sexual assault or just misadventure?

[balloonsanddinosaurs]

So you were totally unbelievably drunk, you don't know if you gave consent or not as you "came to" mid way through

Had previously slept willingly with said person.

I'm not sure if it matters but trying to work some stuff out

I served as a member of the jury on a rape case once and it was exactly as you had described. She was far to drunk to consent, he had sex with her and she came to during. He was do be guilty of rape.

Sorry - found guilty of rape. Autocorrect 🙄

Thanks so much petals, balloons and Goldilocks.

I still remember the abject horror of waking up naked next to a colleague who I had never socialised with before, with no memory of how I got there and then that horrible realisation from physical evidence that we must have had sex.

I tried to laugh it off at the time but I was so ashamed.

nottalotta I'm sorry to say this but you were very much raped. Whether it was traumatic or not, it was rape.

It does not matter whether the person can rationalise it, or isn't too upset. If a man puts his penis inside someone who is shitfaced (and if you're puking or semi conscious or passer out there is no argument that he thought you weren't drunk) then It Is Rape. Every single time.

balloon I have had similar (I’ve NC for this post) and would just like to see what others thoughts are on this. Sorry for hijacking.

Went to a bar with my friend (many years ago) met a bunch of lads, one was lovely and was chatting to him. My mate had to leave and the lad I was talking to suggested we went to a hotel. I agreed. was young and promiscuous. Went to hotel with lad (around 25 I was around 19)

I remember sitting at hotel bar and going up to the room by myself to check on it (?) I remember coming back down to bar and not seeing him there. And then it goes blank.

I woke up in another room with another man the next morning. Had never met him before. I was naked from the waist down. My hair clips were in the bathroom so I’d obviously been and took my hair down. He tried to give me oral sex after I woke up which I refused. He was at the hotel on business, he was a pilot as his jacket was over the chair. He gave me £20 and I got a taxi home. I was too embarrassed to ask what the fuck was going on or had happened.

That still haunts me 20 year on. I should have gone back to the hotel to see how the fuck I ended up with this bloke.

I'm so sorry @flowerinthevase that sounds really scary

Thank balloon i wish I’d gone back to the hotel and asked for cctv footage. How could even end up with a stranger. I can only assume I was that passed I went of with a complete stranger but what kind of man meets a girl that’s steaming and takes her in to his room. Wtf?

**pissed

what I see what you are saying, but can't help but think I'd be flamed (quite rightly) if I started a thread saying "rape doesn't have to be traumatic. Or even bother you".

Quite Nottalotta - see recent threads on Germaine Greer, for example.

Flowers that sounds horrific. I'm so sorry

Flower, the sort of man who believes men are entitled to sex whenever they want it. A nasty man.

Why did a random man find me on the phone on the street and somehow persuade me into an alley so he could grope me? The kind of man who finds that sexually satisfying is a very disturbed human being.

I was date raped when I was in my late teens

It hasn't "traumatised" me. I am perfectly ok about it. But I know what to call it...and it's name is rape.

Attaching a significance to how "bothered" you are by being on the receiving end of something does not change it's definition.

OP - as a person who doesn’t drink and my observations of people who do over the years - it’s really hard to judge how drunk people really are.
And people often claim quite convincingly that they are less drunk than they actually are.
So - it’s perfectly possible that you acted less drunk and consented.
It’s also quite unlikely that - given how you describe your state - that you could properly assess and remember how drunk HE was, that night.
If, on coming to - you told him to stop and he didn’t - then it’d be quite a clear case.

Otherwise - there isn’t enough information to tell one way or another.

Also - given that you now know that you can get to a point where you have memory lapses when you drink - i’d really try to be careful and control your drinking.
And before anyone tells me about victim-blaming, I am not. I do think that there are some things that people should do to not put themselves in harms way. And that include knowing your drinking limits.

@MMmomDD it was over a decade ago so probably a bit late to tell me to control my drinking - even if your intentions are good

I also think it would be worth reading a bit about the what happens in the brain when you're going through trauma. Plenty of people freeze or even disassociate. I wouldn't want anyone reading this thread to be left with that message as the last comment on it as I'm sure it's more complicated than you're implying

@AnyFucker thank you. I think you've hit the nail on the head. The definition isn't the issue- the issue is that I'm not over it a decade later. For that I'm going to seek support.

Doesn't really matter if it was my fault (for having drunk too much - partly at his suggestion) or I gave consent and now can't remember or whatever. I was in a situation in which I didn't feel in control, totally overwhelmed. It was obviously a bad sexual experience.

Even the first time we had sex he "did" first and only offered to stop when I was clearly uncomfortable: the power was all on his side

I use to have sex all the time with my bf whilst ddrunk, he was never as drunk as me, I dont think he was drunk at all. Does that make it rape? Because people have drunk sex all.the.time.

Ignorant comment creeper

Some people really are too thick to be let loose with the grown ups

Well dont sex is either rape or it isnt? So no one can have sex drunk even if they want to?

@balloonsanddinosaurs that's kind of what I was getting at with my comment. I don't consider I was raped. Anyfucker does consider that I was. Irrespective of that, I'm ok. You are not ok and that's what really matters here. I'm doing a bad job of explaining myself.

OP - your post doesn’t mention that it’s a reflection on something from the past. It very much reads as today’s events and questioning of what actually happened.

You didn’t describe a situation where you froze or disassociated. You stated very clearly that you drank too much and can’t remember.

So - all my comments are fair for today’s readers too. It’s your own responsibility to monitor your own drinking.

Its not really clear what happened that night - and, unfortunately - you will never know.
I hope - you’ll find a way to move on from this.

OP I’m glad you are going to seek some form of help.
I have been reading this thread, saddened & angered by how many women have raped (whether) they define it as such or not. With a sickening realisation I realised an event that happened years ago, that I have always know was wrong, was actually not my fault.
BF had dumped me & despite continuing to live in a shared house, completely stopped speaking to me. After a massive drinking session late after work, I arrived home, so drunk that I remember nothing. I woke up the next day with a horrendous hangover & with a feeling of something having happened. Before I left the city exbf told me he had something to tell me but he couldn’t because I might be angry. Months later, the ex wrote to me to telling me that he had had sex with me.
Now I see it wasn’t my fault.

No @Nottalotta that makes sense and I think I know what you're saying

• known

@creeper

Are you honestly for real?? We’re not saying drunk sex is rape. But being so intoxicated to the point a person can’t consent to the sex, but the other party goes ahead and has sex with them anyway, is rape.