DM - here we go again

[HotHandle]

She’s sulking and attention seeking. Again. Every now and again there’s a flare up like this. She’s been called out on her poor behaviour yet we are the hurtful ones. I’m not doing what she wants so the toys are out of the pram.

I don’t know where things go from here. She’s said to not contact her unless I can be kind. In one sense this is a relief, I can put her out of my mind for a bit, but then what? How long does it go on for? Until Christmas (when my plans won’t suit her...)? How do we get past this?

She is so self absorbed and I t’s always always all about how hard done by she is.

I can usually forgive her but I struggle to forget. It chips away at our relationship little by little.... But this time she’s really shown herself up.

However, I don’t think I can do NC, it feels too extreme. But then LC doesn’t feel like a real option either. It means missing out with other family members and LC won’t sit well with her (more ammunition for how hurtful I am).

I’ve read all about narc mother stuff. She fits the bill. I can accept it and can deal with the emotional side, but feel lost with the practical side.

But contacting her feels like I’d just be setting her up to fail. Which is so wrong. There’s nothing she can say to make any of this better. So why put her in a position where she can’t win? What would be the point? I don’t want to set her up.

Yet I’m beginning to stress about upcoming birthdays (her husband’s - I get on very well with him) as well as Xmas. Do I phone? Do I send cards or gifts? Visiting is thankfully out of the question due to distance. Not doing anything would be a bold bold statement and I’m not sure I’m really bold enough to do that.

Arrrrgggghhhhhhhhhh

Just send cards and gifts

Read your replies again, particularly the ones from Aussiebean and Rednaxela. They are bang on here in their thinking.

She is very much still inside your head; she is your critical voice and you are still very much mired in your own fear, obligation and guilt. Your feelings re setting her up to fail are very badly misplaced; she is the one who has instilled this within you. She and her husband are the ones here who have abjectly failed you.

Be bold here - do not send him anything either. He deserves none of it; spend it on your family unit instead. You can do this, make a stand and draw a line in the sand. Neither of these people deserve you in your life. He is her willing enabler and a person who has done his bit to throw you under the bus as well.

No to cards and gifts because its a response and disordered of thinking people like nothing more than a response. It also reopens lines of communication that should remain closed.

Her DH is stuck. He knows what she’s like. She’s trapped him financially. Yes he enables her to an extent but not willingly, and he also doesn’t have much of a choice (still working in his early 70s). I think he feels he’s made his bed so has to lie in it....

He is also a victim. I cannot blame him. He’s taken the brunt for us many times.

So you are spending the evening worry about not hurting her and trying to work out how to make it better with her.

Putting all this effort into working out how to make HER better.

Do you think she is thinking the same about you? Spending the evening trying to work out how to make it up to you? How to make you feel better?

It’s not that I even want it to be better as such because I’m not sure that exists. It’s all a bit twisted because it’s like I want to make it look like I’m open to communicating but actually hoping she’ll show herself up again, so I can then say “oh well, I tried, it’s definitely her and not me”.

But a) I’m not ‘open’ to communicating and b) it would be totally wrong and totally disingenuous to suggest some kind truce without meaning it.

I guess it just feels like a stalemate, there’s no obvious way forward but that it’s in a weird limbo at the moment.

This year has been very tough (my wonderful dad died). She initially said all the right things but fell at the last hurdle and has done some hurtful things at a time she should’ve put her own feelings to one side. I’m stunned really that even at a time like this she’s been so self-absorbed.

But you’re right. I shouldn’t let all this take up room in my head. Grieving for my dear dad and supporting the family members he’s left behind needs to be my priority.

Still nothing.

Does she not want to make things better? In her eyes the ball is in my court. But I feel like it’s been thrown at me when I wasn’t even playing and now I’m left standing there holding it. Like she’s burdened me with it, as if it say “up to you now” when she was the only one playing the game. If I throw it back, I’ll get some cakes into the game... if I hold on to it, it just gets heavier and heavier.

Sorry for the weird analogy

It’s a great analogy. I see it as goal posts.

She has this idea of how i should behave. If I didn’t I was duly punished.

If I did, I wasn’t praised, I just wasn’t punished.

Then she would move the goal posts, not tell me where they were, and proceed to punish me again.

Time to break the cycle. It’s turning into a game. She has told you not to bother contacting her unless you can be kind. I would leave it at that. Being kind can include remembering her birthday and sending cards etc. Leave it. In her eyes if you call her she has ‘won’ and it reaffirms her view that your the problem.... send cards for birthdays and Christmas and leave it at that. She will get frustrated as you maintain a dignified silence and I have no doubt will do something to contact you. You are really letting her behaviour eat away at your ability to get on with enjoying your own life.

Oh, and the new goal posts location doesn’t make sense. There is no reason to where they are.

Except in her head. That’s the hardest part, is realising that there is no behaviour to be ‘managed’ (As my brother atilll tries to do) because it doesn’t make sense and isn’t logical

Saying to only contact her if you are prepared to be kind is the height of manipulation. Please think about this really hard OP. SHE is setting YOU up to fail. You are in an insidious position as she can decide anything you say or do is unkind and the cycle starts again. I would see this plainly as her no wishing to actually end the cycle of problems and I would go completely NC with her. It's really hard at the beginning but after a while it dawns just how much of your mental energy you were expending on her and you gradually emerge into the light. It's a lovely feeling after a while trust me. Very freeing.

She has this idea of how i should behave. If I didn’t I was duly punished.. This feels familiar! Though I’ve never thought of it before as being punished though now I can see that that’s what she does. I guess I thought of punishment as being more overt but actually it’s all quite subtle.

I’ve been thinking recently about when we bought our first house. It was a stretch financially and bigger than we’d started out thinking we’d get. I showed her on rightmove and she said “oooh how lovely, looks gorgeous... it comes to something when your daughter’s first house is bigger than your own... are you sure you can manage somewhere like that?”

To be clear, this is not a stealth boast, it was a 3 bed semi, so a normal house that we’d spent YEARS saving for. But do you know, I’ve alwats felt that house was somehow too much to manage and slightly embarrassed for not going down the “flat then house” route that lots of our friends did. Is it unfair of me to link that back to her?

Time to break the cycle. It’s turning into a game. yes this is how it feels. Like a power struggle where I am forced to put a boundary in place and she ties to either push it or ignore it or punish me for being so cold and controlling. Makes total sense that this behavior is impossible to manage as you say. Futile even.

On a practical level, the NC suits me. I do feel free. But I’m still holding this booody ball. I don’t want it..... I want to somehow say “this is your ball, you thrust it at me and I stupidly caught it... I don’t want it, take it back, and don’t throw it at me again”....

And re the house comment, if I ever told her that, she’d claim she was showing concern and to an outsider it would look the same. But I know it was not genuine. Too many similar backhanded compliments or digs over the years.

You need to drop the ball, not give it back. Stop playing the game.

I remember clearly where I was when I was telling a friend about it and I realised I was so tired of being angry about it. There was this energy that I was giving it that was taking so much from me. I dropped the ball then.

And yes. She was punishing you for getting a better house then her.

Jealousy is an ugly emotion. Every other mother would be happy you were able to do better.

I hadn’t even thought of dropping it!

Makes sense!

I can’t be who she wants and I don’t want to do what she wants. I need to be me. I need to be a good wife and mother. I need to grieve for my dad. And mostly I do... but as the weekend approaches, I feel I should be speaking to her. That maybe she’s not that bad, ok so she’s a bit difficult but that she’s not evil and that again maybe we’re as bad as each other...

I’ll keep popping back for a pep talk as you guys are hitting the nail on the head!

Thank you

Be wary of MN relationship therapy OP as resonance can be a powerful thing. It's a great sounding board though.

Have you talked this through with someone in real life?

Can I ask what you mean hairy?

No I haven’t talked to anyone (other than friends) in real life. I suspect I need to. Think I’ve been putting it off for years.

Hot even that fact that you feel like you are holding the ball just shows how extreme her grip upon you is. Even in her absence and silence you remain in her grip. Drop the metaphorical ball. Kick it into a cupboard and shut and lock the door.
Stay silent weekend after weekend and during that time read some self awareness books like Toxic Parents. You say she is not evil and she isn't evil it's true but she doesn't have your best interests at heart that's for sure. You wouldn't stay friends with her if you weren't related would you? Her negative comments are not evil but the effect they are having is. You are not free to live your life and grow and move forward and develop as a person as her influence is like a snake crushing your spirit. She doesn't have to be evil for you to go NC or low contact. You are not alike. You would not say those things to your DC. You are a better person and want to be treated with kindness. She is not capable of that. Let her get on with it and please forget those last words to you about getting in contact if you are prepared to be kind. Don't be hung up on them. See them as yet more of the same old shit and you want the shit out of your life.

Heading into another weekend with no sign of contact.

We’ve been busy and it would be lovely to talk about and share what we’ve been doing.

I’m now questioning every single opinion or view that I’ve ever held for fear that it’s been shaped, manipulated or influenced by DM. I can’t blame her for everything, it’s not reasonable to do so. But I can definitely see where she’s had an impact on things I believed or felt or thought, and it’s like I’m now thinking “hmm why did I ever think X about that when actually I can see that I think Y about that”.

I feel very confused .

I hope my kids don’t feel confused by me. I hope we just have an easy normal happy respectful relationship. But how do I ensure things go that way?? My DM has no idea of the things (comments, digs) I can recall over the years. She’d say she was just being a normal parent with the best of intentions, and that there was plenty of positives and that it’s unfair of me to choose to only remember the negatives. I’m scared I’ll say things with the best of intentions to my dc and 30 years later they’ll be emotionally damaged by them and I’ll have no idea and it’ll be too late to repair.

It is actually a good thing and perfectly normal for people to hit young adulthood and start to realise that their parents have shaped their ideas and for those ideas to change. Kind of a rite of passage.

As parents, that exactly what you want them to do. You want to have raised adults who think objectively and come up with ideas and opinions based on that. Even if different from them.

What also happens with parents is that they make mistakes. Many parents realise that (either close in time or years after). They self evaluate and reflect. They then try to make amends. Maybe even apologise and make amends.

What narcs do is none of that. There is no desire to see what is best for their children and act accordingly. Unless it benefits them. They will not admit mistakes, unless forced. There will be no apologies and will be dismissed with ‘ I did the best I knew how’ (now shut up and accept)

So yes, you will effect your children. But it will come from a desire to do best for them. Not for yourself. Mistakes will be acknowledged and apologised for with sincerity. And your children’s self esteem will be in a good place.

I made contact. I needed to let her know that moving forward would need to come from her...

... I should be ashamed, my behaviour is disgraceful, I’m vicious, I’m brutal, her friends think so too, all she’s ever done is love me, she hasn’t chosen to feel like this, she’s grieving for the relationship she obviously can’t have with me or the DC, she has to walk on eggshells around me, her health has suffered because of our argument....

She’s twisted what I said, she’s backtracked on what she said. She’s determined to be the innocent victim in all this. She’s so bloody wounded.

All this has done has encouraged me to seek support from a counsellor so that I can, once and for all, really put her shit to one side.

Am sorry to read this but I knew before I go to the end of your post the sort of response that would come from your mother (after all to a toxic person like she the best form of defence is attack). At least you are now determined to see a counsellor, that is the one good thing that has come out of this episode.

Re such people as well they are like shoes so you need to find someone who fits in with you. Therefore the first person you see or talk to may not be the right one; interview such people carefully and with the diligence you would give to candidates for a job interview. You also need to find someone who has NO familial bias about keeping families together despite the presence of mistreatment.